Origin III* Live thread

Russell
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Re: Origin III* Live thread

Unread post by Russell » Thu 13 Jul, 2017 7:24 pm

WestsBenTigers wrote:
Thu 13 Jul, 2017 4:32 pm
upthetigers wrote:
Thu 13 Jul, 2017 4:27 pm
WestsBenTigers wrote:
Thu 13 Jul, 2017 4:08 pm
what 3/4 changes would you make?
I think Tommy was spot on. Drop Pearce/Hayne. Pearce has had his time and Hayne isn't a team player. And honestly I don't think Cordner should be guaranteed a spot although as captain there is no way he will be dropped. His form hasn't been that good and it was a bit selfish for him to play when he clearly wasn't 100%.

Not sure about the halves replacement but it's defo not A Reynolds. I'd consider bringing in Latrell Mitchell he has Origin written all over him.
If A Reynolds is not the halfback replacement, it has to be Cleary, Townsend or Brooks
God help us - because there are no others.

Reynolds has been tried before, not a bad kicking game but stays back from the line.

I don't believe people are even mentioning Brooks, Cleary is far to inexperienced, so that leaves Townsend. Best of a bad lot but if you can't replace current players with someone better... it is going to be a long drought.

Mitchell is also not the answer... desperation stakes!


formerguest
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Unread post by formerguest » Thu 13 Jul, 2017 8:01 pm

upthetigers wrote:
Thu 13 Jul, 2017 3:29 pm
WestsBenTigers wrote:
Thu 13 Jul, 2017 1:04 pm
Queensland had a much better forward pack in game 2 and 3
No they didn't. NSW completed at 65% in the first half last night whilst QLD were flawless. They got rolled because they were terrible with completions and their attack was woeful they looked lost out there. They would have won game 2 if they had a winning mentality they just didn't turn up in the 2nd half. It had nothing to do with "getting dominated in the forwards" if anything on paper NSW has the better forward pack, QLD are just much better at playing as a team. It would be a massive mistake for the Blues to do a massive clean out. They probably need to replace 3/4 players.

It had everything to do with getting dominated in the forwards, as once that battle was lost (5 minutes in) our completions suffered and the attack had nowhere to go against an advancing defensive line. We got owned and it started with the props, with only three of the twelve stints between them in the series being dominant, both in game one from Fifita and the first stint in game two from Woods.

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Unread post by VanillaThunder » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 2:36 am

WestsBenTigers wrote:
Thu 13 Jul, 2017 4:08 pm
what 3/4 changes would you make?
Jumping in for conversation's sake and as a Queensland fan, here's what I'd go for next year. Throw a spanner in the works, QLD will be starting fresh so you may as well too. I don't know who to pick at 9. Wallace isn't the answer but he offers more than Peats, who although he made his tackles, was definitely a target and never won the ruck. Honestly I'd consider giving a Aubusson or McIlwrick type a run for 50-60 minutes with Bird on the bench, reliable service but dominant in defence. Peats looked out of his depth and I don't see any other options than Wallace or Farah, and I think the latter door has closed.

1. Tedesco
2. T. Trbojevic
3. Bird/Gutherson
4. Walker
5. Mansour
6. Moylan
7. A. Reynolds
8. Klemmer
9. Wallace
10. J. Trbojevic
11. Cordner
12. Jackson
13. De Belin
14. Vaughan
15. Fifita
16. Frizzell
17. McLean

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Unread post by Tiger Watto » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 4:18 am

I'd drop Fifita and only bring him back for a Decider if it was available. You will get 1 great game from him, so make it count.

The hate on Pearce is predictable, but he was better than Maloney last night. Over the whole series, I feel they both get a pass mark. When NSW forwards delivered, they were both good. If anything, Pearce & Maloney needed real Centres to hit.

But before you go making changes to players, I think you really need to settle on a coach. Once that is decided for 2018, only he will know what he wants to do differently.
"Did someone buy you the internet hero play book for Christmas and you've only just started reading it?" - Nelson 21/04/2017

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Unread post by Byron Bay Fan » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:36 am

I thought when Cordner was unfit until virtually race day (so presumably couldn't train fully) then another player and captain should be brought in. It is only champs who can be injured and still score tries - like G Inglis in the first round.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)


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Unread post by Masterton » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:39 am

Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:36 am
I thought when Cordner was unfit until virtually race day (so presumably couldn't train fully) then another player and captain should be brought in. It is only champs who can be injured and still score tries - like G Inglis in the first round.
Hmm. Which captain could fill that role? It's a tough one.
"I was on the bus before you painted it yellow."

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Unread post by Byron Bay Fan » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:43 am

Masterton wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:39 am
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:36 am
I thought when Cordner was unfit until virtually race day (so presumably couldn't train fully) then another player and captain should be brought in. It is only champs who can be injured and still score tries - like G Inglis in the first round.
Hmm. Which captain could fill that role? It's a tough one.
For people who see things in black and white it wouldn't be tough. Someone was fill in capt in a few years back and even with Gallen out they only lost by about 2 points. It was a more interesting game to watch as well.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Unread post by maxxy86 » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 8:59 am

Gutherson is a real smokey maybe for a bench spot along with Peachy. NSW need players that can make a line break. A new direction with a new coach and more self belief. I'd also stick with Maloney but play him at 7. A lot of people will hate me for saying M Moses wouldnt be a bad shot either.
Well its nearly time to have a 'CRACK'....Go you :sign:

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Unread post by Russell » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 9:18 am

Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:43 am
Masterton wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:39 am
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:36 am
I thought when Cordner was unfit until virtually race day (so presumably couldn't train fully) then another player and captain should be brought in. It is only champs who can be injured and still score tries - like G Inglis in the first round.
Hmm. Which captain could fill that role? It's a tough one.
For people who see things in black and white it wouldn't be tough. Someone was fill in capt in a few years back and even with Gallen out they only lost by about 2 points. It was a more interesting game to watch as well.
You need to stop pushing that same barrow mate - it has a flat!

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Unread post by Russell » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 9:23 am

Tiger Watto wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 4:18 am
I'd drop Fifita and only bring him back for a Decider if it was available. You will get 1 great game from him, so make it count.

The hate on Pearce is predictable, but he was better than Maloney last night. Over the whole series, I feel they both get a pass mark. When NSW forwards delivered, they were both good. If anything, Pearce & Maloney needed real Centres to hit.

But before you go making changes to players, I think you really need to settle on a coach. Once that is decided for 2018, only he will know what he wants to do differently.
I think you are pretty spot on "Watto" - however I do not believe Fifita should ever be picked again. He is good when everyone around him is playing ok - but when he has to take it up when they aren't - forget it.

Replace him with Vaughan and you have Klemmer, Trbojevic, Woods to go with him - that could work. It would increase the chances if we could replace Woods as well. Thoughts anyone?

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Unread post by Tiger Steve » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 9:36 am

TigerTiger wrote:
Thu 13 Jul, 2017 12:20 pm
Gary Bakerloo wrote:
Thu 13 Jul, 2017 12:14 pm
From a salary cap perspective, anyone find it concerning that the Queensland spine came from the one club (Storm) and it outplayed the best NSW has to offer?
Concerning but not surprising. There's no way Storm are not cheating the cap again, they are just smarter how they do it like the other top clubs.

I wonder who is the best club that isn't cheating?
Knights!

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Unread post by Earl » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 9:46 am

Woods has to go. Fifita stays but probably off the bench. Fifita is a game breaker but you need a bunch of forwards around him who are solid players. Woods isn't a SOO player.

I also think Pearce and Maloney can stay if NSW get the pack and outside backs right.

I think Peats is the worst of the spine players for NSW but Pearce is pretty ordinary as well. Maybe Moses can replace Pearce.

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Unread post by Russell » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 9:59 am

Of course the other problem NSW face in the future is the Queensland "B' spine:

1. BOYD (29)
6. MILFORD (23)
7. HUNT (27)
9. McCULLOCH (27)

and they still have MORGAN (25) in the wings. Also note that this 'B' spine at the moment play for the Broncos, similar to 'A' spine all playing for the Storm. They lso have good younger players coming through.

Another problem is (many disagree, not saying he is good) Pearce is the best we have at the moment - Cleary, Townsend and A. Reynolds may step up in future but you wouldn't want to bet on it.

Further problem is 5/8 - Maloney at times has been good for us but getting long in the tooth - probably Bird should be picked in the next series.

Dummy half is the next concern - Peats has been good in defence but has absolutely no attack or creativity (don't think he ran once in game 3) - who can be his replacement - I think Wallace but he is (31) now and there are not many in the wings apart from Liddle (much too early yet if ever).

FB is not so bad with Tom Trbojevic and Tedesco - but at best it will be a bit of a hodge podge with the four coming from different clubs.

It does highlight a big problem for NSW, although there are x amount of people that will say it gets down to the forwards - true, but that is not a big problem at the moment.

IMO if you have an inferior spine you will not win a SOO series.

Then there is the coach..... 5 series is enough.. a 20% passmark does not cut it I'm afraid.

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Unread post by Byron Bay Fan » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 11:43 am

Russell, thrilled that you finally agree with one of my complaints re DH. If they cannot be creative they should not hold the job in FG IMIO. It just becomes so predictable and too boring to watch.

Was the coach's instruction for Peats not to run?
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Unread post by WestsBenTigers » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 2:18 pm

Russell wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 9:59 am
Of course the other problem NSW face in the future is the Queensland "B' spine:

1. BOYD (29)
6. MILFORD (23)
7. HUNT (27)
9. McCULLOCH (27)

and they still have MORGAN (25) in the wings. Also note that this 'B' spine at the moment play for the Broncos, similar to 'A' spine all playing for the Storm. They lso have good younger players coming through.

Another problem is (many disagree, not saying he is good) Pearce is the best we have at the moment - Cleary, Townsend and A. Reynolds may step up in future but you wouldn't want to bet on it.

Further problem is 5/8 - Maloney at times has been good for us but getting long in the tooth - probably Bird should be picked in the next series.

Dummy half is the next concern - Peats has been good in defence but has absolutely no attack or creativity (don't think he ran once in game 3) - who can be his replacement - I think Wallace but he is (31) now and there are not many in the wings apart from Liddle (much too early yet if ever).

FB is not so bad with Tom Trbojevic and Tedesco - but at best it will be a bit of a hodge podge with the four coming from different clubs.

It does highlight a big problem for NSW, although there are x amount of people that will say it gets down to the forwards - true, but that is not a big problem at the moment.

IMO if you have an inferior spine you will not win a SOO series.

Then there is the coach..... 5 series is enough.. a 20% passmark does not cut it I'm afraid.
The only clubs with a NSW spine are Rabbitohs and Panthers

1. Walker
6. Sutton
7. Reynolds
9. Farah/Cook

1. Edwards
6. Moylan
7. Cleary
9. Wallace

We are never going to get a spine from the same club so we may as well pick the best player in each position. Ideally we want to pick and stick with our spine and not be chopping and changing.

We need a new coach because Laurie is not who we need, Andrew Johns should be the coach. Joey will install passion and pride into the team that he picks. He knows the game so well and I am sure that he will pick the best team available.

If he wants a creative DH then he should go Liddle or Koroisau but if he wants a DH that gives good service and has good defence he should go with Peats or McInnes.

Our halves need to have a decent kicking game and therefore I nominate A Reynolds as his kicking game is one of the best in the comp and he is also a sharp shooter when attempting conversions. The 5/8 should be the creative player who comes up with plays and I think it is Moylan v Gutherson for the #6. IMO Gutherson should get the nod as he is one of the form players in the NRL.

Fullback should be Teddy or Turbo, whoever is in the best form next year should get it. The Rorters are probably going to be a better team than Manly next year so Teddy will get more attacking oppurtunites so when picking the team for next year, Tedesco should start as favourite (although current form suggests Turbo is the best option).

Then we need big, powerful, dynamic outside backs who can finish off tries by Gutherson and Reynolds. They also can't make bad reads or decisions in defense. Preferably it is best not to pick players out of position.

Our forwards need to be dominating for all this to happen. We need 2 powerful, mobile props on the bench so I nominate Junior Paulo and R Campbell-Gillard. Both are a handful for the defense and both play with aggression. Paul Vaughan to start with Klemmer.

A backrow of Cordner, Frizell and Jurbo looks good imo. Nathan Brown gets the final forward bench spot as he is aggressive and plays with passion and pride; exactly what NSW need.

14 jersey should go to Moylan, Turbo or Bird depending on how the starting lineup looks like.

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Unread post by Byron Bay Fan » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 2:30 pm

Russell wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 9:18 am
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:43 am
Masterton wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:39 am
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 7:36 am
I thought when Cordner was unfit until virtually race day (so presumably couldn't train fully) then another player and captain should be brought in. It is only champs who can be injured and still score tries - like G Inglis in the first round.
Hmm. Which captain could fill that role? It's a tough one.
For people who see things in black and white it wouldn't be tough. Someone was fill in capt in a few years back and even with Gallen out they only lost by about 2 points. It was a more interesting game to watch as well.
You need to stop pushing that same barrow mate - it has a flat!
The only flats around the place are the boring pretenders we have to tolerate in his place. I love watching creative hookers whatever team.
Malcolm Knox: What has happened this week is a pity for the Tigers, a pity for Jason Taylor and a pity for Robbie Farah, who had achieved more than the Big Four put together but was somehow turned into collateral damage. (SMH 25-26 March, 2017)

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Unread post by formerguest » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 2:36 pm

Russell wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 9:59 am
Of course the other problem NSW face in the future is the Queensland "B' spine:

1. BOYD (29)
6. MILFORD (23)
7. HUNT (27)
9. McCULLOCH (27)

and they still have MORGAN (25) in the wings. Also note that this 'B' spine at the moment play for the Broncos, similar to 'A' spine all playing for the Storm. They lso have good younger players coming through.

Another problem is (many disagree, not saying he is good) Pearce is the best we have at the moment - Cleary, Townsend and A. Reynolds may step up in future but you wouldn't want to bet on it.

Further problem is 5/8 - Maloney at times has been good for us but getting long in the tooth - probably Bird should be picked in the next series.

Dummy half is the next concern - Peats has been good in defence but has absolutely no attack or creativity (don't think he ran once in game 3) - who can be his replacement - I think Wallace but he is (31) now and there are not many in the wings apart from Liddle (much too early yet if ever).

FB is not so bad with Tom Trbojevic and Tedesco - but at best it will be a bit of a hodge podge with the four coming from different clubs.

It does highlight a big problem for NSW, although there are x amount of people that will say it gets down to the forwards - true, but that is not a big problem at the moment.

IMO if you have an inferior spine you will not win a SOO series.

Then there is the coach..... 5 series is enough.. a 20% passmark does not cut it I'm afraid.
Reckon Munster will be in there before at least two of them.

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Unread post by Russell » Fri 14 Jul, 2017 2:48 pm

formerguest wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 2:36 pm
Russell wrote:
Fri 14 Jul, 2017 9:59 am
Of course the other problem NSW face in the future is the Queensland "B' spine:

1. BOYD (29)
6. MILFORD (23)
7. HUNT (27)
9. McCULLOCH (27)

and they still have MORGAN (25) in the wings. Also note that this 'B' spine at the moment play for the Broncos, similar to 'A' spine all playing for the Storm. They lso have good younger players coming through.

Another problem is (many disagree, not saying he is good) Pearce is the best we have at the moment - Cleary, Townsend and A. Reynolds may step up in future but you wouldn't want to bet on it.

Further problem is 5/8 - Maloney at times has been good for us but getting long in the tooth - probably Bird should be picked in the next series.

Dummy half is the next concern - Peats has been good in defence but has absolutely no attack or creativity (don't think he ran once in game 3) - who can be his replacement - I think Wallace but he is (31) now and there are not many in the wings apart from Liddle (much too early yet if ever).

FB is not so bad with Tom Trbojevic and Tedesco - but at best it will be a bit of a hodge podge with the four coming from different clubs.

It does highlight a big problem for NSW, although there are x amount of people that will say it gets down to the forwards - true, but that is not a big problem at the moment.

IMO if you have an inferior spine you will not win a SOO series.

Then there is the coach..... 5 series is enough.. a 20% passmark does not cut it I'm afraid.
Reckon Munster will be in there before at least two of them.
Not sure what you mean Chief?

Not suggesting QLD will change anything - I was simply pointing out that they have another spine better than ours. Of course Munster will stay and they will fit Boyd in but if there are injuries to Smith and Cronk or they retire - they have decent replacements.

We on the other hand are scratching around for one ordinary spine.

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