Overrated Benji - Nothing has changed

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bonstonker
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Re: Overrated Benji - Nothing has changed

Post by bonstonker » Wed 13 Feb, 2013 4:42 pm

Black & Gold wrote:Bonstonker - Oh thanks for proving my point...Fitzy copped the most anyone has ever copped (much deserved too) on this forum and STILL there were hords of people defending him!!!!

I've been hammering Sheens for the last 4 years and many of you were defending me and calling me disloyal....FINALLY, hes gone....he was sacked 3 or 4 years too late!

So who was right there? Im not too shy to say it....BUT I TOLD YOU SO!

Look, i hope Benji proves me wrong....but i just cant see it....Hes overrated, self absorbed, cracks me up when he leads the haka for NZ and tries to look scary (like Eazy E said to snoop, "you're only 60 pounds when you're wet and wearin' boots"), makes toooooo many mistakes, wrong options, cant close out a game....gee, where do I stop?

there were not hoards of people defending him.just because 2 people voice their opinion 50 times,doesn't mean there were 50 people expressing that view.

this time last year farah was being called over rated.
benji copped plenty on here last year just like every other player that put in a bad performance.

if i was to guess the feeling on this board about benji right now,i think most would prefer to wait and see how he performs with a proper halfback and him back in the position he has displayed his best form.

you do crack me up with your self absorbed comment about benji though.
pot meet kettle


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Post by Demonborger » Wed 13 Feb, 2013 4:58 pm

Most people called out Benji as being poor when he was poor and everyone knows he is inconsistent. Most also thought that part of Benji's problem has been with Sheens use of him, he's not a halfback and can't run the team himself, he needs a proper halfback - which is why Benji's best seasons (05,10,11) were when Benji had a proper half alongside him.

He has lost a ton of pace but this has coincided with less injuries so you could say there is a trade off between his pace and the time he spends on the sidelines. His days of manufacturing linebreaks and racing off to score appear to be over which means our fullback support play is crucial, as well as support of the other outside backs - it is a combination based game.

Benji is a nice guy and popular with kids, he doesn't have a particularly combative or erratic personality so he is popular with the media, he is also highly entertaining which has led to what you might call his overexposure in the media (contrary to belief i don't think he is overrated, how can he be when everyone says he is overrated?).

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Post by willow » Wed 13 Feb, 2013 8:32 pm

Black & Gold wrote:WOW!

I haven't come back on since I wrote this post...damn, i've missed a fair bit....

Innsaneink - What did Eminem once say? "This looks like a job for me, so everybody just follow me, cause we need a little controversy, cause it feels so empty without me'.. LoL.....Just have fun my man.

Anyway, I need to make a few points here...

1: Lets be honest, most people that support a club find it extremely difficult to criticise once of their own players, particularly if its one of the main guys. So I'm not surprised that some of you simply wont or cant criticise Benji. Your blinded by your passion for the club and not just in sport, it's extremely difficult to self reflect and/or criticise.

2: In 2012, Mr rocks and diamonds made the most try assists compared with anyone else but how many times did he handle the ball compared with anyone else? Whats the average of touches to trys assists? How many times did Benji make an error? How many times did he throw a flick pass when it wasnt needed and we lost the ball? How many times did he run across field and squash a centre or winger on the sideline and we got pushed into touch? How many times did he overkick a grubber that went ssaaiillliiinnggg into row 15 behind the goal posts? How many times did he put a shocking kick on the last play that never seems to find the grass? Or even get caught on the last tackle with 60 seconds left against
the Warriors in the finals of 2010? Or maybe failing to go for a field goal that would have put us 13-6 in front against st george in the finals in 2009? I think that was 2009 when we lost 13-12...Soward had the
brains to attempt a field goal. How many times do we put our hand on our heads and think "Oh Benji!"

3: He hasnt just lost pace....He's lost a TONNE of pace..Didnt James Tamou run him down last year? Oh boy!!

4: Happy Tiger - Agree with everything you have said. Most of the peope I know also cant understand why Benji is soooo overrated.

5: It seems that everybody BUT Tigers supporters dont think hes all that.

6: Benji can be brilliant. There is no doubting that. What im saying hes rocks and diamonds and the rocks FFAARR outweight the diamonds.

7: The biggest problem with our club is Stephen Humphreys..... Lets go round 2! LoL....

8: Those want to disagree...go for it..all good. lets enjoy the discussion ..This means footy is back! Just excuse me for pre-empting that most of you simply dont dare to criticise your own. You have to if you want to get ahead. I want the best for my club...I just dont think we can get there with someone like Benji....Im not a fan of his whether hes on or off the field. simple as that.
You act as if you're really surprised despite the fact you got the reaction you were after...So what we have essentially established is that you don't like Benji, on or off the field - Fair enough, although you really went above and beyond to voice that. As for Humphreys being the biggest problem with the club, well again, that's rather opinionated without providing any facts or basis as to why.

Do I agree? Not in regards to Humphreys, but based on last year's form, Benji is overrated to an extent. However I will say this - He's not a natural halfback but still led the comp in try assists and line break assists despite playing his fair share of average games. That to me says more about how talented he really is despite not being in top form. You criticise the errors he makes, well he makes those errors because he's always trying to create opportunities. You don't top the comp for try assists and line break assists by sitting back on your haunches and waiting for the opposition to let you run past, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that based on what you've belligerently posted so far.

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Post by happy tiger » Wed 13 Feb, 2013 8:43 pm

Willow I wonder what his % of attempted try assists are compared to the others

The problem is he tries more and more outlandish attempts to put points on instead of using the others around him to create the chances

He lacks patience on most occasions

Anyway hes got no excuses in 2013 he will be in the 6 and he has a quality 7 inside him and even more quality behind him (Miller and Brooks )

My point still is for a guy who had a disappointing 2012 (which he admits himself) he did himself no favours with his first game and I know if I was in that situation I would of wanted to at least try and make a point to all league fans Attitude and Accountability , that is what consistancy is all about

but if he has another bad season in 2013 , something gotta give

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Post by willow » Wed 13 Feb, 2013 9:10 pm

happy tiger wrote:Willow I wonder what his % of attempted try assists are compared to the others

The problem is he tries more and more outlandish attempts to put points on instead of using the others around him to create the chances

He lacks patience on most occasions

Anyway hes got no excuses in 2013 he will be in the 6 and he has a quality 7 inside him and even more quality behind him (Miller and Brooks )

My point still is for a guy who had a disappointing 2012 (which he admits himself) he did himself no favours with his first game and I know if I was in that situation I would of wanted to at least try and make a point to all league fans Attitude and Accountability , that is what consistancy is all about

but if he has another bad season in 2013 , something gotta give
I'm not arguing Benji has his faults Happy. For sure he pushes passes, some of which look like they are never on and end up in no man's land, and yes, he stuffs up some general kicking at times too and his defence is certainly not a strong point with numerous missed tackles each week.

Despite this though, unless the Tigers can get Cooper Cronk or Jonathon Thurston in Tigers colours in lieu of Benji, then I wouldn't consider swapping him for anyone. At the end of the day there is no other player at the Tigers who has the creative flair that Benji does and can pull off some of the things he does. He's had games where he's kicked out on the full and made 2 or 3 fundamental errors which leaves fans pulling their hair out or whatever, but then he can also come up with a 30 metre cut out pass to put a winger in the corner and win the game.

Benji might be rocks and diamonds, but in my view he's won more games for the Tigers than he's lost by playing the way he does. Let's wait and see how he goes back at 6 and hopefully a bit wider of the ruck.


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Post by stryker » Wed 13 Feb, 2013 9:15 pm

To those who dont rate or want Benji anymore...who would you want at 5/8?

Please dont say Sirronen, that kid is miles off.
Anasta? Possibly but he cant do what Benji can for us.
One of the 20's players? Not yet for mine.

The fact is Benji is by far our best option and only as far back as 2011 was creating havoc out there. 2012 was a bludger of a year for him as it was for all our stars. He had plenty of partners in crime including Ellis (who I wouldnt have fed last year), Moltzen (who didnt play like a first grader), Tuqiri (who was useless beyond words) and Rowdy (who I would have dropped). Sheens had a massive influence on his 2012 form and deserved the criticism he copped and his resultant sacking.

You are all jumping the gun over a glorified trial game and getting far too worked up. Let the bloke have a chance to show us what the off season has resulted in. That All star game is ridiculous and I dont blame him for not giving it his all. He is saving that for his club...which you all support - therefore he is saving that form for you.
Benji will be a lot better this year...I really do believe that.

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Post by tigersrule4life » Wed 13 Feb, 2013 9:17 pm

Benji Marshall back at 6 he will kill it with a combo with Jacob Miller we will have one of the best halves in the nrl cant wait to see how they play during the year.

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Post by mtd » Wed 13 Feb, 2013 11:16 pm

stryker wrote:To those who dont rate or want Benji anymore...who would you want at 5/8?

Please dont say Sirronen, that kid is miles off.
Anasta? Possibly but he cant do what Benji can for us.
One of the 20's players? Not yet for mine.

The fact is Benji is by far our best option and only as far back as 2011 was creating havoc out there. 2012 was a bludger of a year for him as it was for all our stars. He had plenty of partners in crime including Ellis (who I wouldnt have fed last year), Moltzen (who didnt play like a first grader), Tuqiri (who was useless beyond words) and Rowdy (who I would have dropped). Sheens had a massive influence on his 2012 form and deserved the criticism he copped and his resultant sacking.

You are all jumping the gun over a glorified trial game and getting far too worked up. Let the bloke have a chance to show us what the off season has resulted in. That All star game is ridiculous and I dont blame him for not giving it his all. He is saving that for his club...which you all support - therefore he is saving that form for you.
Benji will be a lot better this year...I really do believe that.
sirro is more than capable of playing #6...

like i mentioned in my other thread, people have to stop blaming OTHERS for benjis poor form. even for NZ and in All Stars, he plays average. number 6 is not his best position, the inconsistency demonstrates that.

he has had chances for years.. he went through the period wit injury and we all accepted it would take him a while to hit back. but that was 2009. its now 2013 and are still not getting the consistent performances we should out of the so called best.

hes an amazing player... just not a 6...

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Post by Defiant » Wed 13 Feb, 2013 11:23 pm

You can't deny he killed it with a proper no 7 next to him.

His played more of his career without a decent half or even worse, forced to play 7 and organize thanks to the nutty professor.

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Post by Newtown » Wed 13 Feb, 2013 11:39 pm

Black & Gold wrote:Bonstonker - Oh thanks for proving my point...Fitzy copped the most anyone has ever copped (much deserved too) on this forum and STILL there were hords of people defending him!!!!

I've been hammering Sheens for the last 4 years and many of you were defending me and calling me disloyal....FINALLY, hes gone....he was sacked 3 or 4 years too late!

So who was right there? Im not too shy to say it....BUT I TOLD YOU SO!

Look, i hope Benji proves me wrong....but i just cant see it....Hes overrated, self absorbed, cracks me up when he leads the haka for NZ and tries to look scary (like Eazy E said to snoop, "you're only 60 pounds when you're wet and wearin' boots"), makes toooooo many mistakes, wrong options, cant close out a game....gee, where do I stop?
I really hope he proves you wrong too.

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Post by willow » Thu 14 Feb, 2013 6:16 am

mtd wrote:
stryker wrote:To those who dont rate or want Benji anymore...who would you want at 5/8?

Please dont say Sirronen, that kid is miles off.
Anasta? Possibly but he cant do what Benji can for us.
One of the 20's players? Not yet for mine.

The fact is Benji is by far our best option and only as far back as 2011 was creating havoc out there. 2012 was a bludger of a year for him as it was for all our stars. He had plenty of partners in crime including Ellis (who I wouldnt have fed last year), Moltzen (who didnt play like a first grader), Tuqiri (who was useless beyond words) and Rowdy (who I would have dropped). Sheens had a massive influence on his 2012 form and deserved the criticism he copped and his resultant sacking.

You are all jumping the gun over a glorified trial game and getting far too worked up. Let the bloke have a chance to show us what the off season has resulted in. That All star game is ridiculous and I dont blame him for not giving it his all. He is saving that for his club...which you all support - therefore he is saving that form for you.
Benji will be a lot better this year...I really do believe that.
sirro is more than capable of playing #6...

like i mentioned in my other thread, people have to stop blaming OTHERS for benjis poor form. even for NZ and in All Stars, he plays average. number 6 is not his best position, the inconsistency demonstrates that.

he has had chances for years.. he went through the period wit injury and we all accepted it would take him a while to hit back. but that was 2009. its now 2013 and are still not getting the consistent performances we should out of the so called best.

hes an amazing player... just not a 6...
Oh please...If Benji isn't a 6 then what is he? He's not a 7, he's not a 9, please don't say he's a centre because his defence isn't up to it, and nor is he a fullback.

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Post by Newtown » Thu 14 Feb, 2013 8:19 am

May be he is the prop we are looking for.

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Post by AmericanHistoryX » Thu 14 Feb, 2013 10:20 am

we had Fifita & let him go.
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Post by mtd » Thu 14 Feb, 2013 10:18 pm

willow wrote:Oh please...If Benji isn't a 6 then what is he? He's not a 7, he's not a 9, please don't say he's a centre because his defence isn't up to it, and nor is he a fullback.
how can you say that? have you seen him play fullback, centre or hooker?

we have PERSISTED with players in positions, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. i personally dont think this is working when we compare his impact of today vs yesteryear.

just because a player was once in X position doesnt mean they need to be there the rest of their career.

you, like many, are too close minded on this issue. the "electric" benji marshall is barely existent any more. how often does he change games? make crazy plays, insane breaks - look like the old freak we once knew? rarely... its too hard when he's getting the ball 2 wide and taking on a well drilled and fit defensive line. if interchange was reduced to only 6 per game, sure, play him at five eight so he can capitalise on the exhaustion of other players. but at present, its useless.

put him in a position with SPACE and 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 opportunities (e.g. centre, hooker) and i guarantee he will step it up ten notches.

he can play attack in centre or hooker, defend on the wing. no issue there - he there when we won in 05.

he might go ok at 6 this year, but when we have talent such as sirronen, miller and moltzen to fill the halves void - we should be looking at what is best for benjis game... because an inform marshall generally means an in form tigers..

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Post by pHyR3 » Thu 14 Feb, 2013 11:00 pm

Putting him in space IS putting him in 6, at 7 he was far too cramped and had to take way to much control of the team which he doesn't want to do. Putting him at centre creates defensive holes and with Farah and Luani to replace him 9 isn't an option. He was great at 6 in 2011, only 18 months ago and he played badly at 7 and when he didn't have a halves partner. Give him miller for many a game, miller steps up and boom you have an amazing halves combo and probably a great team with it.
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Post by Drewby » Thu 14 Feb, 2013 11:10 pm

Rufus Marshall wrote:
Black & Gold wrote:
Yossarian wrote:
Black & Gold wrote: Not saying that there is an agenda on this forum, im simply saying that the majority of people will blindly support the view of the club, moderators or admins.

Or perhaps those who have a different opinion to yours are right and you're wrong.
By the way, those who disagree with you just happen to include the MAJORITY of expert League analysts and the MAJORITY of NRL followers.

But I guess YOU being wrong is not very likely, is it?
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Post by mtd » Thu 14 Feb, 2013 11:23 pm

pHyR3 wrote:Putting him in space IS putting him in 6, at 7 he was far too cramped and had to take way to much control of the team which he doesn't want to do. Putting him at centre creates defensive holes and with Farah and Luani to replace him 9 isn't an option. He was great at 6 in 2011, only 18 months ago and he played badly at 7 and when he didn't have a halves partner. Give him miller for many a game, miller steps up and boom you have an amazing halves combo and probably a great team with it.
i hope ur right...
i really do...
but i still think he has more space on kick returns, scooting from dummy half, wrong footing a centre and setting up the winger than he does at 6 or 7. he is taking on the WHOLE defensive line, not just 1 or 2 players.
anyway, as long as we are winning, i dont really care.

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Post by mtd » Thu 14 Feb, 2013 11:29 pm

Drewby wrote: Or perhaps those who have a different opinion to yours are right and you're wrong.
By the way, those who disagree with you just happen to include the MAJORITY of expert League analysts and the MAJORITY of NRL followers.

But I guess YOU being wrong is not very likely, is it?
its posts like this that support exactly what is being said above...

its not about being right or wrong... its about original thought, having your own view and opinions.

there ALOT of intelligent league brains out there not involved at a NRL level. ..

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