Stop turning the ball inside!

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cktiger
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Re: Stop turning the ball inside!

Post by cktiger » Tue 12 Mar, 2013 3:57 pm

Yossarian wrote:I'd say that game plan would fail against almost all the NRL. The reason why we were successful in 2005 was because we had options in attack and defenders held off because they weren't sure who would get the ball. That in term opened up the field for Marshall, Prince and Farah. Right now it's Jacob Miller going directly sideways at a polite jog and then one of our forwards from a standing start gets it after jogging a few paces and then soon afterwards is smashed by a defender.

So not only does every man and his dog know what will happen, the whole thing is done so slowly that our forwards get no momentum and receive the ball too late.
I hope the fans aren't the only ones who can see this... but I'm beginning to doubt it.


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Post by Goose » Tue 12 Mar, 2013 4:03 pm

Thought the inside line worked ok.
Our first try was scored after 2 very succesful unders lines followed by a flat man, and often it resulted in us hitting the line into a one on one contact, also created space for Ayshford twice after dummying to both runners and going wide, and farah had a couple nice runs on the back of it as well.

I actually liked our forward structure (in attack last night)

Only once did we struggle to get out (the set after Marika dropped the bomb backwards)

Much preferred that than the one out back at the marker stuff we over used last year.

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Post by Yossarian » Tue 12 Mar, 2013 4:07 pm

cktiger wrote:
Yossarian wrote:I'd say that game plan would fail against almost all the NRL. The reason why we were successful in 2005 was because we had options in attack and defenders held off because they weren't sure who would get the ball. That in term opened up the field for Marshall, Prince and Farah. Right now it's Jacob Miller going directly sideways at a polite jog and then one of our forwards from a standing start gets it after jogging a few paces and then soon afterwards is smashed by a defender.

So not only does every man and his dog know what will happen, the whole thing is done so slowly that our forwards get no momentum and receive the ball too late.
I hope the fans aren't the only ones who can see this... but I'm beginning to doubt it.
Who knows CK. It gets frustrating when most of the forum identifies the same issues week after week and nothing improves. And then you buy one of the longest kickers in the NRL and he kicks the ball once for no ground even though you're under pressure bringing the ball out all night... :brick:

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Post by bonstonker » Tue 12 Mar, 2013 4:14 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Black'n'White wrote:I am not posting about last nights efforts, more to the way we have utilised our pack for a long time now...
And how has our forward pack been really any different for many years now ??

We have been undersized since 2005 , even earlier
2010 we had sauce,gibbs,payten,ellis,rhino with dwyer,fifita and fulton bench.
2011 woods was added along with bmm and groat, but sadly we lost dwyer and decided to obliterate or prop depth and added blair for the following season.

we had size and balance and we blew it.
top 4 to this.

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Post by bonstonker » Tue 12 Mar, 2013 4:18 pm

and jirskyr
i'm not reading all that.
you had me at bodies in motion.


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Post by jirskyr » Tue 12 Mar, 2013 4:22 pm

happy tiger wrote:The idea of turning the ball on the inside is to tire out a bigger forward packs and then to play the second runner and having the big forwards anchored when they are tired to beat them laterally
The idea is to wear the big blokes out with different angles and many people in motion and to try and get them to assume the play will go inside again , stop them sliding in defence and create room for the backs

It is something a lot of smaller, more mobile forwards pack try and utilize against bigger sides Hang in there hopefully and then overrun the opposition late
I personally think the strategy is back-to-front. Why not do the opposite and play wide the majority of the time, have them sliding, then surprise them with a switch?

In my opinion the switch is best used against defenders with momentum – it is harder to shift inside than out when you are running. If you switch and wrong-foot the centre, for example, all you have to do is beat the inside cover (one defender) before you’ve made a line break.

Near the ruck, defenders have hardly been chasing and are more easily able to shift their feet. Not to mention, when you switch at the ruck you are running a corridor of 4 defenders – the two markers plus both defenders from the 10m on your side of the ruck. These players have not had to cover much ground to reach you.

If you switch all day, sure you may buy a little width when you eventually go wide, but that only makes the opposition need to slide a little harder. It’s much easier to pick up a runner who is slightly outside you versus one that has already beaten you on the inside?

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Post by happy tiger » Tue 12 Mar, 2013 4:43 pm

I think a few people have mixed up what I am talking about I DON"T want to see 2013 version of the Rhino shuffle with him running in behind the ruck

What I'm talking about is clearing the ruck with a couple of longer passes ,having multiple running options running different angles and then Benji,Miller ,Farah picking the best option after the defence has reacted

Obviously I don't want us doing this every tackle of the tackle count

Naturally after two to three rucks with our wingers hitting up and a prop (again with multiple runners either side of the ruck) The best way to work a defence over is players\numbers in motion running angles

It commits more defenders and will also led to bad defensive reads which hopefully will lead to line breaks

I think once Tedesco is selected in the side it will create more headaches for opposition defences as he will help create more second phase ,which it turn will make the defenders make bad decisions

You can actually wear out sides mentally as well as phsyically by making them have think every situation that will come at them ,especially when you have a Marshall who can throw a magic ball to tear the guts out of your defence
Last edited by happy tiger on Tue 12 Mar, 2013 5:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by Goose » Tue 12 Mar, 2013 5:01 pm

happy tiger wrote:I think a few people have what I am talking about I DON"T want to see 2013 version of the Rhino shuffle with him tunning in behind the ruck

What I'm talking about is clearing the ruck with a couple of longer passes ,having multiple running options running different angles and then Benji,Miller ,Farah picking the best option after the defence has reacted

Obviously I don't want us doing this every tackle of the tackle count

Naturally after two to three rucks with our wingers hitting up and a prop (again with multiple runners either side of the ruck) The best way to work a defence over is players\numbers in motion running angles

It commits more defenders and will also led to bad defensive reads which hopefully will lead to line breaks

I think once Tedesco is selected in the side it will create more headaches for opposition defences as he will help create more second phase ,which it turn will make the defenders make bad decisions

You can actually wear out sides mentally as well as phsyically by making them have think every situation that will come at them ,especially when you have a Marshall who can throw a magic ball to tear the guts out of your defence
I think we did various versions of this last night, with ok results.

We didn't have enough ball to see much of it tho

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Post by happy tiger » Tue 12 Mar, 2013 5:24 pm

My point before also Goose , well we get to see it again because we are going to be the smaller side with the smaller forward pack this Sunday

Better defence and better completions is the order of the day on Sunday

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Post by Guest » Tue 12 Mar, 2013 10:40 pm

Yossarian wrote:I'd say that game plan would fail against almost all the NRL. The reason why we were successful in 2005 was because we had options in attack and defenders held off because they weren't sure who would get the ball. That in term opened up the field for Marshall, Prince and Farah. Right now it's Jacob Miller going directly sideways at a polite jog and then one of our forwards from a standing start gets it after jogging a few paces and then soon afterwards is smashed by a defender.

So not only does every man and his dog know what will happen, the whole thing is done so slowly that our forwards get no momentum and receive the ball too late.

2010...... 60 mins safe defensive disiplined footy making teams tired... Last 20 mins unleash our flare!!!! Gone are those days

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