Signing Suggestions & Rumours THREAD..

Needaname
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Re: Signing Suggestions & Rumours THREAD..

Post by Needaname » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:45 pm

Sorry how do you split 5 million into 26 positions? Even if you consider their TPAs which is reportedly another 300,000.
What is the Minimum wage? Where is that documented? Either way the remainder averages out to 192,000 per player???
I can understand this year with 2x Million dollar players but 4........


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jirskyr
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Post by jirskyr » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 1:42 pm

Needaname wrote:
Tue 20 Feb, 2018 12:45 pm
Sorry how do you split 5 million into 26 positions? Even if you consider their TPAs which is reportedly another 300,000.
What is the Minimum wage? Where is that documented? Either way the remainder averages out to 192,000 per player???
I can understand this year with 2x Million dollar players but 4........
And the NRL have issued an article today stating they are considering releasing the TPAs, to dispel the rumour and misinformation about how many players earn non-cap monies and which clubs pull the highest.

They've already confirmed that Storm, Broncos and Penrith have the highest TPAs, not entirely surprising, but apart from those top clubs they specifically singled out the Roosters as being an average TPA club.

What was also interesting is that of the $9.6M total TPAs in 2017, it is:
  • spread across 198 players (12.5 players on average per club)
  • $3.76M comes from the private sector for 93 players - not entirely sure what they mean here, because it leaves almost $6M paid by... public sector? Roy Masters looks at it more closely in the link below. But;
  • Half of the private TPAs (totalling $1.88M) go to just 8 players and half of that goes to just 2 players
Therefore though TPAs average out at $48.5K per player in 2017, it's heavily skewed towards the elite end where 8/198 (4%) of players earned an average $235K TPAs.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/02/19/nrl ... greements/
Roy Masters also took a closer look and expands his commentary to potentially illegal TPAs:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/nrl- ... 0wayc.html

Therefore let's look at the Roosters, as Needaname has suggested. Roosters earn average TPAs according to the NRL, so that's something like $50K each spread across ~13 players = $650K total per year.

The salary cap 2018 is $9.4M, and though Crichton is not there for 2018 (the Roosters have previously said they could afford to take him on now), from 2019 they will have 4 very public and highly-paid players. Let's be conservative and say they are all on $800K, which most fans would argue is low for Tedesco and Cronk, and Cordner was reported yesterday to have inked $850K. That's minimum $3.2M of the cap (34%) and leaves $6.2M to play with.

Roosters therefore need to fill out another 26 roster spots, with minimum wage $100K. That's obviously $2.6M, meaning they have $3.6M to pay the remaining 26 roster spots above the minimum wage. How many minimum wage players do they have?

Let's try to objectively group them:
Possibly = Bernard Lewis, Brendan Frei, Lachlan Lam, Cornish, Paul Momirovski, Reece Robinson, Sean O'Sullivan, Brock Gray, Chris Smith, Vunaceke, Joshua Curran, Lindsay Collins, Victor Radley, Zane Tetevano (14)
Definitely not = Ferguson, Cronk, Tedesco, Cordner, Napa, Tupou, Manu, Latrell, Keary, Matterson, Liu, Jake Friend, JWH, Aubusson, Nat Butcher, Taukeiaho (16)

But let's be real, no more than 6-8 players in the Top 30 can possibly be on minimum wage, especially considering most sides use around 24 players per year and anyone who plays FG with any regularity does not earn minimum wage. Let's cap it at 6 players, which of itself is likely an overestimate.

So we have 4 players totalling $3.2M, 6 players totalling $0.6M and $5.6M left to spend on the other 20 spots = $280K average per player.

But we know already there are players well above $280K, just look at the roster and pick out some of the middle-earning players. Forget what you've heard or read, just pick 6 middle earners and assume they earn twice the $280K average that Roosters have left themselves outside the top and bottom players. Say JWH, Keary, Latrell, Napa, Friend, Ferguson. Not a stretch than any of them can earn this money, perhaps too much for some and too little for others, but surely it averages out.

If we were to assume just those 6 guys earn double the remaining average money = $560K each, then suddenly Roosters have spent $3.36M on their "Middle 6", $3.2M on their "Top 4", $0.6M on their "Bottom 6" and the rest can split ($9.4M-$7.16M) $2.24M amongst themselves, i.e. $160K average on 14 players.

That's just not feasible, I can't see anyway you can come at this with even modest figures and get the Roosters' roster. Sure they have plenty of nobodies in their Top 30, but if you take out the Top 10 (i.e. barely half the lineup each week) and the Bottom 6, you have something like 14 players averaging $160K salary. And with that Roosters can top up approx $50K TPAs each max across 13 players (NRL average), but we know it's going to be skewed towards the higher-profile players, so actually the middle-bottom guys don't get that much at all, i.e. nobody pulls more than $200K if they are in the bottom 20 players.

So either the Roosters have absolutely unreal lifestyle packages, superb brain-washing capabilities, Uncle Nick has them set up for life post-footy, or Roosters are doing some absolutely mad shady deals to pay so much money across so few players, and expect us to swallow that 2/3 of their squad earn $150K. Bollocks.

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Post by Geo. » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:01 pm

Yeah .....but when you never have to pay for food, clothes, ciggies, booze. coke and women for the rest of your life you don't really need TPA's whist playing the game...
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
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OK I was wrong
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Post by jirskyr » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:11 pm

Geo. wrote:
Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:01 pm
Yeah .....but when you never have to pay for food, clothes, ciggies, booze. coke and women for the rest of your life you don't really need TPA's whist playing the game...
Roosters have a deal with Coca-Cola? :roll:

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Post by Tiger Watto » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:38 pm

The problem with both the comparisons of TPA's is it only factors in the NRL approved ones.

The RLPA is zero chance of agreeing to access to players financials.

The only way to develop system is a points system... While money is involved, there will ALWAYS be corruption!
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Post by Balmain Boy » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:43 pm

When clubs have all these 'mates' with restaurants, cafes, gyms, bars etc that players can attend anytime without paying a cent these things do add up over time. Sly real estate agents selling things on the cheap but picking up the rest in brown paper bags from Uncle Nick, or landlords gifting out luxury pads for well below market rates. You can't police all these little things. The Roosters know that.

It really is unfathomable that more than 6 players in a squad could have a TPA, even 6 is pushing it for most clubs. The big clubs may have more origin and international reps but how many businesses want to spend 200k to get Jeremy Latimore, Hymel Hunt or Young Tounimepea on a business sponsorship?
Last edited by Balmain Boy on Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by supercoach » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:49 pm

Tiger Watto wrote:
Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:38 pm
The problem with both the comparisons of TPA's is it only factors in the NRL approved ones.

The RLPA is zero chance of agreeing to access to players financials.

The only way to develop system is a points system... While money is involved, there will ALWAYS be corruption!
100% agreed.....There are a 101 ways you can pay a player extra without attracting the salary cap auditor. The only system that will work is a point system. Doubt we will ever see it because it would appear powerful people do not want a level playing field

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Post by rex2ce » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:56 pm

Players want to play for successful, glamorous clubs and location comes into it as well, so taking into account what Geo said above, plus you are circulating in an area where the chicks are, most would play for the Roosters for less than they would for other clubs- human nature.

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Geo.
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Post by Geo. » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 3:43 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:11 pm
Geo. wrote:
Tue 20 Feb, 2018 2:01 pm
Yeah .....but when you never have to pay for food, clothes, ciggies, booze. coke and women for the rest of your life you don't really need TPA's whist playing the game...
Roosters have a deal with Coca-Cola? :roll:
yes but only original none of these new no sugar lines..
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am
OK I was wrong
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 12:13 am
I know at times I'm not always the brightest light in the kitchen

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Post by tiger05premier » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 3:49 pm

The lurker has put up a story about Nathan Cleary if anyone knows how to post it please do

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Post by Tiger Watto » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 3:59 pm

It basically says he is happy at Penrith, and he has an agreement with Panthers they will not negociate contracts during the current season. It also says he is expecting alot of offers, including one from the Wests Tigers come November.

Nothing article
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Post by momo&medo » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 4:12 pm

tiger05premier wrote:
Tue 20 Feb, 2018 3:49 pm
The lurker has put up a story about Nathan Cleary if anyone knows how to post it please do
Today’s Sporting News article
Nathan Cleary expects Tigers to come calling

Nathan Cleary expects his father Ivan to come knocking on his door once he’s officially on the open market – but insists the pair has not yet discussed a change of clubs.

One of the hottest young players in the game, rival clubs can approach Cleary from November 1 with a view to prising him out of the Panthers.

The 20-year-old is off contract at the end of 2019 and is sure to attract an army of suitors, including Ivan’s Wests Tigers.

But Cleary, who still lives at home, is adamant contract discussions are not brought up over Cornflakes.

“Like any player they want to chase, he might offer something to me when the time is right,” Cleary jnr said of a likely approach from the Tigers.

“But that’s not for now. I’ve still got two years left on my contract so there’s plenty of time to talk.

“I’ve come to an agreement with Penrith that we’ll not talk about it for the rest of the year and will wait until the season is over.

“I’m more than happy at the moment. I just to play some footy and talk about it later.”

Cleary is cut from the same unflappable cloth as his father, so it’s little surprise he is so relaxed about the pending circus over his next move.

It’s the same attitude he’s taken to reports of unrest at the Panthers in the wake of Bryce Cartwright and Matt Moylan departing the club.

Cleary said: “The media probably made it bigger than it really was.

“No-one likes to see friends leave but that’s footy these days.

“I’m more than happy there and I think everyone’s pretty happy.

“We’re a tight bunch of mates and we’re looking forward to playing with each other.”

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Post by underdog » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 4:33 pm

colmcd wrote:
Tue 20 Feb, 2018 11:19 am
innsaneink wrote:
Mon 19 Feb, 2018 11:36 am
Teo has nothing on.moses or moltzen
Why mention Moses and Moltzen together?

For all Moltzen did wrong, we dropped him for Robert Lui (which was a good decision till he bashed his wife..*sigh*)
Then he came back to us for a season or two and I think we dropped him fast. He went from talent to nothing and I think it was because of injuries.

I'm sure there were hassles fitting him in and buying him back from St George. But that's very different to Moses gathering 3 team mates and saying it's all or nothing.
Moltzen's comeback brought back a shell of the same person.... whether thats club management of his psyche, or his own man management remains to be seen, however he'd clearly left plenty of courage in the recovery group sheds.

We had a period of time where almost every bomb directed his way was allowed to bounce, every hard tackle was an arm grab, every facial expression resembled Greg Bird, and every drop ball by a teammate was met with derision, and venom. I went from loving the guy, to not wanting him to have anything to do with our team in the space of 18 months.

Quite the pea heart - I remember him hiding behind Blake Ayshford (who despite best efforts was wrong footed) when of all players JAKE FN MULLANEY Strolled through for a try - (Jake weighed about 75 keggs soaking wet) the game Parra tore us apart in the first half back, and we shredded them in the second half - Koroibetes 4 try game.
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Post by TigerTone » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 4:43 pm

momo&medo wrote:
Tue 20 Feb, 2018 4:12 pm
tiger05premier wrote:
Tue 20 Feb, 2018 3:49 pm
The lurker has put up a story about Nathan Cleary if anyone knows how to post it please do
Today’s Sporting News article
Nathan Cleary expects Tigers to come calling

Nathan Cleary expects his father Ivan to come knocking on his door once he’s officially on the open market – but insists the pair has not yet discussed a change of clubs.

One of the hottest young players in the game, rival clubs can approach Cleary from November 1 with a view to prising him out of the Panthers.

The 20-year-old is off contract at the end of 2019 and is sure to attract an army of suitors, including Ivan’s Wests Tigers.

But Cleary, who still lives at home, is adamant contract discussions are not brought up over Cornflakes.

“Like any player they want to chase, he might offer something to me when the time is right,” Cleary jnr said of a likely approach from the Tigers.

“But that’s not for now. I’ve still got two years left on my contract so there’s plenty of time to talk.

“I’ve come to an agreement with Penrith that we’ll not talk about it for the rest of the year and will wait until the season is over.

“I’m more than happy at the moment. I just to play some footy and talk about it later.”

Cleary is cut from the same unflappable cloth as his father, so it’s little surprise he is so relaxed about the pending circus over his next move.

It’s the same attitude he’s taken to reports of unrest at the Panthers in the wake of Bryce Cartwright and Matt Moylan departing the club.

Cleary said: “The media probably made it bigger than it really was.

“No-one likes to see friends leave but that’s footy these days.

“I’m more than happy there and I think everyone’s pretty happy.

“We’re a tight bunch of mates and we’re looking forward to playing with each other.”
lol . i just posted the same thing in the ''NATHAN CLEARY" topic..

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Post by Needaname » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 5:10 pm

Can we get back to the Roosters and TPAs please,
Say the NRL anonymously publishes the player affiliated TPAs aligned to each club and the result is we are dead last on the table.
Couple of questions to arise from this....
How do we feel as fans about our club.
Beaten and embarrassed that we can’t compete, disappointed that our club hasn’t got that support or united and ignited in the fight against the power clubs.
And does the lack of corporate support add fuel to the too many clubs in Sydney debate and provide the media with just the ammunition needed to push the case that our only options are to relocate or fold?
I’m curious what could eventuate from this being made public!

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Post by Needaname » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 5:11 pm

Reason being Paul Kent made a statement last night using us and the Roosters as an example and stated that if we knew what financially we were up against we’d feel more justified if the result went against us.

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Post by jadtiger » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 5:26 pm

Needaname wrote:
Tue 20 Feb, 2018 5:11 pm
Reason being Paul Kent made a statement last night using us and the Roosters as an example and stated that if we knew what financially we were up against we’d feel more justified if the result went against us.
Unfortunately showing "legal TPA" figures would only show a small part of the divide.It is the "illegal" ones which hurt.This is where the true difference lies between the big dollar clubs and the rest.

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Post by Tiger Watto » Tue 20 Feb, 2018 5:29 pm

Its a relevant debate about the saturation within the Sydney marketplace. I dont necessary think it is a population debate, but Brisbane has 40% the population of Sydney with 1 team compared to Sydney with 8. The ethnicity of the greater Sydney population is a greater concern in relation to the traditional orientation of RL followers.

Either way, the real numbers are the economy within both regions. The numbers dont really change with Brisbane having a $150b economy compared to Sydneys $330b. This highlights to me that Sydney is an over saturated marketplace within the national rugby league landscape and something needs to change.

Commercially, I'd be looking at new marketplaces to take my business to. But, personally the Wests Tigers have already made their sacrifice within the Sydney landscape and its up to other franchises to do the heavy lifting!
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