Nathan Cleary

tigerap
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Re: Nathan Cleary

Post by tigerap » Tue 18 Sep, 2018 10:46 pm

Tiger Steve wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 8:41 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 8:36 pm
Tiger Steve wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 8:32 pm
I’m so over this s***. We have an awesome halfback - re-sign him to a long deal. Fix the roster and get some decent bloody players. Extend Ivan or piss him off. One or the other. Oh and Justin, don’t go on holidays until this is all done!
I dont get this mindset...I know all the talk and theories around it, players wont come, his heart wont be in it blah blah...i think thats rubbish myself, he will go eventually one way or the other just let him continue to do what hes building.
he doesnt deserve an extension (that hes unlikley to agree to anyway) yet and he doesnt deserve the arse
Mate I’ve had a few beers!!

BUT I think we need long term commitment to encourage good players and build our squad. If Ivan is going to Penrith in 2021, Go now. Find a coach who will not just talk about being on the bus but will actually do it. I’d prefer Ican to be that man, so extend him. If he won’t commit- bye bye!
Extend him now to 2023 then he and son can hook up where ever.... if he rejects the extension, cut him loose now and bring on Madge


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Post by Needaname » Tue 18 Sep, 2018 11:08 pm

tigerap wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 10:46 pm
Tiger Steve wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 8:41 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 8:36 pm
Tiger Steve wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 8:32 pm
I’m so over this s***. We have an awesome halfback - re-sign him to a long deal. Fix the roster and get some decent bloody players. Extend Ivan or piss him off. One or the other. Oh and Justin, don’t go on holidays until this is all done!
I dont get this mindset...I know all the talk and theories around it, players wont come, his heart wont be in it blah blah...i think thats rubbish myself, he will go eventually one way or the other just let him continue to do what hes building.
he doesnt deserve an extension (that hes unlikley to agree to anyway) yet and he doesnt deserve the arse
Mate I’ve had a few beers!!

BUT I think we need long term commitment to encourage good players and build our squad. If Ivan is going to Penrith in 2021, Go now. Find a coach who will not just talk about being on the bus but will actually do it. I’d prefer Ican to be that man, so extend him. If he won’t commit- bye bye!
Extend him now to 2023 then he and son can hook up where ever.... if he rejects the extension, cut him loose now and bring on Madge
Sorry, 2 issues with that.
Madge has not had success in building a squad that achieves sustained success.
They had immediate success in 12 but they had that squad being built the couple years before that ready to capitalise. He had 2 semi successful years with Souths and 1 premiership the following year. By the time Madge started with Souths, their rebuild was just about complete, it needing some polish.

In the same context when Ivan coached the panther he started with a team and a club in nead of a rebuild in 12 very much link us from last year. In 13 he builds on his foundations from the year previously and in 14 he gets the team one game away from the gf. Following that a disaster year of injuires and lack of depth from the previous year followed. We’ll never know whether Ivan had the ability to improve on 15s performance in 16.


With the tigers rebuilt, we are at the 12’ - 13’ stage of that panthers rebuild. Let us get to 14’ before we move the coach on.

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Post by Geo. » Tue 18 Sep, 2018 11:25 pm

Tiger Steve wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 8:32 pm
I’m so over this s***. We have an awesome halfback - re-sign him to a long deal. Fix the roster and get some decent bloody players. Extend Ivan or piss him off. One or the other. Oh and Justin, don’t go on holidays until this is all done!
Why would you extend Ivan Cleary beyond his current ..whilst improvements have been made in areas of defence and staying in most games we still failed to achieve a top 8 finish......as for getting rid of him he has a contract. If we continue to improve next year then sure offer an extension...
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..

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Post by tonza » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 1:04 am

Cleary has 2 full seasons to run on his contract, to end 2020. We are all aware. Is that not enough to entice new players over? Some might only be signed for 2 seasons anyway, and there's currently no guarantee that Ivan stays or goes in 2021. Does anyone really think Penrith will for sure sign Ivan now for 2021 if Tigers continue to fail to make any impact on the finals the next 2 years? They gave him the flick once and he hasn't got a team to the finals since - hardly a stellar track record, and they gave him the flick for a reason.

But above all this, how many coaches are actually contracted beyond 2020, i.e. how many of the other 15 head coaches have a deal with more surety than Ivan, for their players to mull on?

The answer is 3 coaches! Bellamy just extended to end 2021, Green to end 2021 and Robinson to end 2022, and those are all extensions from this season. So if you are a player wanting assurances of the coach beyond 2020, you currently have 3 choices.

How many coaches with even contracts as long as Ivans, to end of 2020? Just another 4 - Barrett (and he's leaving apparently), Garth Brennan, Brownie, Sticky. Hardly a list of success-guaranteed clubs.

All the other coaches unsigned beyond 2019 - Brad Arthur, Ciraldo, Bennett, Flanagan, Kearney, Mary, Dean Pay, Seibold.

In summary - Ivan has a contract length equal to or better than 12/15 = 80%.
[/quote]

This is the most logical way to look at the whole coaching situation, and as others have stated, if Cleary has does an exceptional job this time next year, we might offer him a extension.

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Post by jirskyr » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 2:04 am

Nucky Thompson wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 9:34 pm

Totally agree with extending ivan contract

With sheens There's so many varibles

Clubs in a much strong position financially now and sheens may do a lot better now. For example there a lot more people to help with cap, recruitment and admin and he could focus on coaching.

What do you think about Mcguire. ?
Tough one. He won a comp within first 3 years, given the boot 3 years after that. A proven product of the Bellamy system, known hard trainer and disciplinarian, but also got on the nose with the players. Hasn't had another club since to show his ability or prove/disprove that he does not stay popular with the players.

I spoke to a guy who knows some inside info at Souths, said Maguire tactically pretty astute but wears the players down because he trains so hard and is so strict. His opinion was it works for a while, and if that produces results then great (e.g. a premiership), but has a limited effect before it just annoys players.


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Post by Geo. » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 2:41 am

jirskyr wrote:
Wed 19 Sep, 2018 2:04 am
Nucky Thompson wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 9:34 pm

Totally agree with extending ivan contract

With sheens There's so many varibles

Clubs in a much strong position financially now and sheens may do a lot better now. For example there a lot more people to help with cap, recruitment and admin and he could focus on coaching.

What do you think about Mcguire. ?
Tough one. He won a comp within first 3 years, given the boot 3 years after that. A proven product of the Bellamy system, known hard trainer and disciplinarian, but also got on the nose with the players. Hasn't had another club since to show his ability or prove/disprove that he does not stay popular with the players.

I spoke to a guy who knows some inside info at Souths, said Maguire tactically pretty astute but wears the players down because he trains so hard and is so strict. His opinion was it works for a while, and if that produces results then great (e.g. a premiership), but has a limited effect before it just annoys players.
Gee wizz imagine a professional rugby league player having to train hard....
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..

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Post by Snake » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 6:34 am

Geo. wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 11:25 pm
Tiger Steve wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 8:32 pm
I’m so over this s***. We have an awesome halfback - re-sign him to a long deal. Fix the roster and get some decent bloody players. Extend Ivan or piss him off. One or the other. Oh and Justin, don’t go on holidays until this is all done!
Why would you extend Ivan Cleary beyond his current ..whilst improvements have been made in areas of defence and staying in most games we still failed to achieve a top 8 finish......as for getting rid of him he has a contract. If we continue to improve next year then sure offer an extension...
Extending Clearys contract at this time is a knee jerk reaction,if there is major improvement next season his contract still has one year to run then offer an extension.
Some common sense has to prevail.... Imo Penrith have made some bad decisions over the last few months and I am very glad NC has resigned with them as the crazy money to sign him can be better spent to rebuild our team ...yes he is a good player but there are other priorities at this stage.

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Post by Furious1 » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:48 am

jadtiger wrote:
Sat 15 Sep, 2018 2:28 pm
Furious1 wrote:
Sat 15 Sep, 2018 1:57 pm
Lauren wrote:
Fri 14 Sep, 2018 10:15 pm
Don’t watch channel 9 and fox always goes straight to Ennis and co., but saw this online. I know it was annoying all the Ivan and Nathan speculation but this pretty much pulls at the heartstrings

"Don't worry son, i'll be here with you next year"

Seriously, i wonder whether it will be this week or next that Ivan requests his release on "compassionate" grounds.
How is that old bone you have?
Starting to look a bit fresher than what you thought, isn't it.

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Post by happy tiger » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:56 am

Surprised everyone is bouncing off the walls at the alleged 4 year contract Nathan is about to sign at Penrith

Honestly it is good news for WT's , we have other issues we need to fix 1st

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Post by jadtiger » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 8:09 am

Furious1 wrote:
Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:48 am
jadtiger wrote:
Sat 15 Sep, 2018 2:28 pm
Furious1 wrote:
Sat 15 Sep, 2018 1:57 pm
Lauren wrote:
Fri 14 Sep, 2018 10:15 pm
Don’t watch channel 9 and fox always goes straight to Ennis and co., but saw this online. I know it was annoying all the Ivan and Nathan speculation but this pretty much pulls at the heartstrings

"Don't worry son, i'll be here with you next year"

Seriously, i wonder whether it will be this week or next that Ivan requests his release on "compassionate" grounds.
How is that old bone you have?
Starting to look a bit fresher than what you thought, isn't it.
No it is old and mouldy but you can keep on clinging to hope that it becomes juicy like news ltd wants you to

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Post by Tcat » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 8:15 am

jirskyr wrote:
Wed 19 Sep, 2018 2:04 am
Nucky Thompson wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 9:34 pm

Totally agree with extending ivan contract

With sheens There's so many varibles

Clubs in a much strong position financially now and sheens may do a lot better now. For example there a lot more people to help with cap, recruitment and admin and he could focus on coaching.

What do you think about Mcguire. ?
Tough one. He won a comp within first 3 years, given the boot 3 years after that. A proven product of the Bellamy system, known hard trainer and disciplinarian, but also got on the nose with the players. Hasn't had another club since to show his ability or prove/disprove that he does not stay popular with the players.

I spoke to a guy who knows some inside info at Souths, said Maguire tactically pretty astute but wears the players down because he trains so hard and is so strict. His opinion was it works for a while, and if that produces results then great (e.g. a premiership), but has a limited effect before it just annoys players.
The best thing Ivan can do is continue to say nothing and coach / build this team. We don't need to know anything about beyond his current contract and the media will move on to other topics eventually. All coaches have a plan with regards to their own situation, just like players do and he needs to achieve and get results. Now that Nathan has re-signed hopefully they put Ciraldo in the head coach role and let him prove himself. It's a win for all parties. Ciraldo seems respected at Penrith, he may prove to be everything they want in a coach (Nathan
seems to like him) which in turn keeps Ivan on his toes. We can speculate that Nathan re-signed on the provisa that Ivan comes in when his tigers contract is out, but who really knows. Nathan Cleary might fizz out into just another above average footballer (sounds weird, but hes being touted as the next Thurston).

If however, all the speculation is true and Ivan leaves, Madges hard attitude wouldnt hurt our playing group. There have been plenty of players in our club that have had an easy ride over the years.

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Post by Russell » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 8:43 am

Can't see Madge doing any good with our mob.

He may have won a comp (it was all set up for him imo) but I can't see him winning another one.

We are still rebuilding and he is no good at that.

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Post by TonyTiger » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 2:03 pm

Russell wrote:
Wed 19 Sep, 2018 8:43 am
Can't see Madge doing any good with our mob.

He may have won a comp (it was all set up for him imo) but I can't see him winning another one.

We are still rebuilding and he is no good at that.
Madge is a great motivator, I’ve had enough of Ivan’s Mr Nice Guy - with a shrug of the shoulders and a wry smile he can dismiss the long run of defeats mid-season where we hibernated like bears.. came out foraging for food early in the year then retreated to our cave to sleep off the winter, only to wake towards the end to string some wins together.
Make it happen.

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Post by bathursttiger » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 2:17 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:56 am
Surprised everyone is bouncing off the walls at the alleged 4 year contract Nathan is about to sign at Penrith

Honestly it is good news for WT's , we have other issues we need to fix 1st
Hap you make too much sense to be on here, another second rower prop centre possibility of one home ground.

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Post by Telltails » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 2:49 pm

Tiger Steve wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 8:41 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 8:36 pm
Tiger Steve wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 8:32 pm
I’m so over this s***. We have an awesome halfback - re-sign him to a long deal. Fix the roster and get some decent bloody players. Extend Ivan or piss him off. One or the other. Oh and Justin, don’t go on holidays until this is all done!
I dont get this mindset...I know all the talk and theories around it, players wont come, his heart wont be in it blah blah...i think thats rubbish myself, he will go eventually one way or the other just let him continue to do what hes building.
he doesnt deserve an extension (that hes unlikley to agree to anyway) yet and he doesnt deserve the arse
Mate I’ve had a few beers!!

BUT I think we need long term commitment to encourage good players and build our squad. If Ivan is going to Penrith in 2021, Go now. Find a coach who will not just talk about being on the bus but will actually do it. I’d prefer Ican to be that man, so extend him. If he won’t commit- bye bye!
It does make the "on the bus" tag a little hard to swallow. You would think a rebuild coach would have difficulty selling the future direction of the club when he is likely not going to be there see it through.
He did sign Matterson under all the speculation so there is a possiblity that fans and players view things differently. Or maybe they know more about whats really happening than we do.

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Post by Demps » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 2:49 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:56 am
Surprised everyone is bouncing off the walls at the alleged 4 year contract Nathan is about to sign at Penrith

Honestly it is good news for WT's , we have other issues we need to fix 1st
Yeah... Cleary is overrated.
Hes can spend the next four years choking it up.
He looked lost without Maloney and in origin he was unnoticed.

Got carried this season...
Can't see him winning any comps any time soon. Sozzaaaa
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Post by 851 » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 4:17 pm

Donald Trump wrote:
Tue 18 Sep, 2018 10:16 pm
It’s like my brother who said he always thought he’d get divorced just never thought it would happen this quick.

Cleary is planning on leaving. We want someone who we know is going to stay and more importantly, wants to stay.

Get rid of Cleary now.

Mmmmm
Can't do that, Kent and co suggested it. :(
Go hard or go home

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Post by Russell » Wed 19 Sep, 2018 5:13 pm

Demps wrote:
Wed 19 Sep, 2018 2:49 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:56 am
Surprised everyone is bouncing off the walls at the alleged 4 year contract Nathan is about to sign at Penrith

Honestly it is good news for WT's , we have other issues we need to fix 1st
Yeah... Cleary is overrated.
Hes can spend the next four years choking it up.
He looked lost without Maloney and in origin he was unnoticed.

Got carried this season...
Can't see him winning any comps any time soon. Sozzaaaa
He's the one who got them back in the game - or you didn't watch that part.

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