Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

supercoach
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Re: Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

Post by supercoach » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:41 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:31 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 6:34 pm
TYGA wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 3:54 pm
THE POM wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 12:20 pm
Simply if Ivan does not agree to extend his current deal with the club he WILL NOT be the head coach for 2019. Everything should be finalized one way or the other prior to pre-season, but this is affecting recruitment big time & has already cost us one signing.
Exactly what I heard and posted earlier. I am curious which signing did not happen as a result. It will cost us more if it’s not put to bed quickly.

I just cant see this being put to bed on our end.

I dont think the media will let this rest until Penrith name a high profile coach to replace Ciraldo.

While ever Ciraldo is coaching Penrith there will be speculation.
As I said before, it’s not as simple as telling Ivan that he has to sign an extension,
Contracts come with rights both ways
Telling him that he has to sign an additional contract or he can’t continue on in his job may just open another can of worms for the club.
I’m no lawyer but it seems that if there’s no tangible proof that he’s broken his side of the contract, He’s got no problems,
Mate your on the money.....You can force a person to see out his contract but you can not force a person to extend his contract....and Gould knows it.

So Cleary knows the Tigs have now choice if he commits elsewhere when his contract expire but flick him now with zero compo


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Post by innsaneink » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:43 pm

supercoach wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:41 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:31 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 6:34 pm
TYGA wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 3:54 pm


Exactly what I heard and posted earlier. I am curious which signing did not happen as a result. It will cost us more if it’s not put to bed quickly.

I just cant see this being put to bed on our end.

I dont think the media will let this rest until Penrith name a high profile coach to replace Ciraldo.

While ever Ciraldo is coaching Penrith there will be speculation.
As I said before, it’s not as simple as telling Ivan that he has to sign an extension,
Contracts come with rights both ways
Telling him that he has to sign an additional contract or he can’t continue on in his job may just open another can of worms for the club.
I’m no lawyer but it seems that if there’s no tangible proof that he’s broken his side of the contract, He’s got no problems,
Mate your on the money.....You can force a person to see out his contract but you can not force a person to extend his contract....and Gould knows it.

So Cleary knows the Tigs have now choice if he commits elsewhere when his contract expire but flick him now with zero compo
Has this hypothetical extension WTs are offering materialised yet?

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:44 pm

TIGERPOWER wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:34 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:31 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 6:34 pm
TYGA wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 3:54 pm


Exactly what I heard and posted earlier. I am curious which signing did not happen as a result. It will cost us more if it’s not put to bed quickly.

I just cant see this being put to bed on our end.

I dont think the media will let this rest until Penrith name a high profile coach to replace Ciraldo.

While ever Ciraldo is coaching Penrith there will be speculation.
As I said before, it’s not as simple as telling Ivan that he has to sign an extension,
Contracts come with rights both ways
Telling him that he has to sign an additional contract or he can’t continue on in his job may just open another can of worms for the club.
I’m no lawyer but it seems that if there’s no tangible proof that he’s broken his side of the contract, He’s got no problems,
You tell Ivan to sign an extension if he says no you tell him have fun been hodgos assistant. Nothing illegal in that. Then tell him if Penrith want you that bad tell them to show us the money.
Depends on how his contract is worded
If the club wants to break the contract That’s up tothem, but they’d be pretty foolish if they did, I’d be surprised if they have grounds to do that unless there is some actual proof that Ivan has already broken it, And I’m talking about real evidence., Not Rumours

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Post by Fade To Black » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:47 pm

All this kerfuffle over a coach who didn't even make the 8 this season.
Let him go ASAP, with Penrith coming to the party either with cash, players or a combination of both in return for his early release.
If he stays after all this, WT fans are going to be baying for his blood after a loss or 2 next season, there will be no sympathy towards Ivan after this crap of the last few weeks. His cards are marked now without a doubt.

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Post by Cairnstigers » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:48 pm

Keep Cleary as the tigers coach
He needs to get results for us
If he doesnt
Why the hell would penrith want him as coach
Gus would be sacked to sign a coach who cant get results
Imagine the pressure on Cleary and Gus if this was to happen


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bigsiro
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Post by bigsiro » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:48 pm

I was going to suggest a poll but there are barely any pro-Cleary voices left...

I almost think we want him gone more than we wanted Taylor gone.
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Post by goldcoast tiger » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:49 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:43 pm
supercoach wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:41 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:31 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 6:34 pm



I just cant see this being put to bed on our end.

I dont think the media will let this rest until Penrith name a high profile coach to replace Ciraldo.

While ever Ciraldo is coaching Penrith there will be speculation.
As I said before, it’s not as simple as telling Ivan that he has to sign an extension,
Contracts come with rights both ways
Telling him that he has to sign an additional contract or he can’t continue on in his job may just open another can of worms for the club.
I’m no lawyer but it seems that if there’s no tangible proof that he’s broken his side of the contract, He’s got no problems,
Mate your on the money.....You can force a person to see out his contract but you can not force a person to extend his contract....and Gould knows it.

So Cleary knows the Tigs have now choice if he commits elsewhere when his contract expire but flick him now with zero compo
Has this hypothetical extension WTs are offering materialised yet?
Who Knows,
all this is coming from sports writers, who in most cases don’t have a very close association with reality!

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Post by Masterton » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:53 pm

bigsiro wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:48 pm
I was going to suggest a poll but there are barely any pro-Cleary voices left...

I almost think we want him gone more than we wanted Taylor gone.
[shrugs] If honestly commits to the next two years, I'm happy to keep him.
"I was on the bus before you painted it yellow."

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Post by Tiger Steve » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:55 pm

THE POM wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 12:20 pm
Simply if Ivan does not agree to extend his current deal with the club he WILL NOT be the head coach for 2019. Everything should be finalized one way or the other prior to pre-season, but this is affecting recruitment big time & has already cost us one signing.
Thanks Pom.

This is exactly the reason I posted my strong post yesterday but people wanted to tell me I’m delusional. Ivan must extend or go. Far out! We need experienced players and it sounds like mr “on the bus” has cost us one, I’m so sick of mediocrity in all its forms. We finally look to be moving forward and this grub (Cleary) throws crud in our face.
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Post by TIGERPOWER » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:55 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:41 pm
Job descriptions would be included in his contract, some thing along the lines of 'NRL coach Wests Tigers'
Punting him to reserve grade assistant isnt an option....LOL, or even illegal
So hold on, no worker can ever be demoted??? It’s an option for every employee to be demoted by his employer. The only thing he is entitled to is his wages. Oh dear tweedle dee, you always jump the gun to show your smartness and it always seems to backfire on you lol lol .

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Post by The Bard » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:57 pm

I think we’ve got enough disgruntled members now to form a formidable lynch mob, all we need now is the tar and feathers and then locate that bus!! :rant :rant :rant :rant :rant
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Post by Masterton » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 10:02 pm

TIGERPOWER wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:55 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:41 pm
Job descriptions would be included in his contract, some thing along the lines of 'NRL coach Wests Tigers'
Punting him to reserve grade assistant isnt an option....LOL, or even illegal
So hold on, no worker can ever be demoted??? It’s an option for every employee to be demoted by his employer. The only thing he is entitled to is his wages. Oh dear tweedle dee, you always jump the gun to show your smartness and it always seems to backfire on you lol lol .
I have a contract for office work. It's pretty clearly stated. If my boss ask me to start cleaning dunnies tomorrow, there will be problems. lol lol etc.
"I was on the bus before you painted it yellow."

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Post by TIGERPOWER » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 10:04 pm

Masterton wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 10:02 pm
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:55 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:41 pm
Job descriptions would be included in his contract, some thing along the lines of 'NRL coach Wests Tigers'
Punting him to reserve grade assistant isnt an option....LOL, or even illegal
So hold on, no worker can ever be demoted??? It’s an option for every employee to be demoted by his employer. The only thing he is entitled to is his wages. Oh dear tweedle dee, you always jump the gun to show your smartness and it always seems to backfire on you lol lol .
I have a contract for office work. It's pretty clearly stated. If my boss ask me to start cleaning dunnies tomorrow, there will be problems. lol lol etc.
You must either be doing your office work really badly or talking to one of your competitors about doing their office work. So you deserve to be cleaning dunnies lol

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Post by Fade To Black » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 10:05 pm

Cairnstigers wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:48 pm
Keep Cleary as the tigers coach
He needs to get results for us
If he doesnt
Why the hell would penrith want him as coach
Gus would be sacked to sign a coach who cant get results
Imagine the pressure on Cleary and Gus if this was to happen
Apparently Nathan has a clause in his (supposedly) impending contract with Penrith that he can leave if Ivan is not the coach. So Ivan knows he has got a guaranteed job there no matter how poorly he coaches us over the next 2 seasons.
That is why to keep him on as coach at WT now would be foolish.

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Post by TYGA » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 10:27 pm

I have some experience with NRL contracts with my work in finance dealing with administrators. The Contract is specific to be head coach of the club. You can only strip powers away and sideline the coach but not demote them to a lesser role. It doesn’t matter in this case blind Freddy would tell you he would walk to Penrith at the first available opportunity. The only way to get compensation is to stick with Cleary and have a handshake deal with Maguire that if And when Penrith make a compensation offer he is ready to go. Penrith won’t wait 2 years for a coach. Pascoe is going to rise with Cleary until he gets what he wants. If it’s done now there is no compensation.

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Post by sideline eye » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 10:50 pm

At the moment I'm sure the club is looking at this issue from all angles, including the legal situation of the various scenarios. Having sacked a coach 18 months ago and having to pay him out, to sack another coach would be a heavy financial burden if they had to pay him out plus pay another senior coach to take his place.

Whilst I no longer doubt that Penrith have or will make an offer to Cleary for 2021, it seems that we need for Ivan to make an early move for a release. If Ivan is still an honourable man, it would be the honourable thing to do, so that the club can get on with its future without an extra financial penalty. Will we sack him? Will he walk? I'd hate to be a director or CEO at Wests Tigers right now.

Something needs to be said about Penrith's morals in all this. They are a financially powerful club who have done their best to derail a club (Wests Tigers) which is trying hard to get its affairs to a stage where they are seriously competitive with richer clubs (and perhaps a motive could be gleaned in this but I think they are just being self serving rather than being Machiavellian). In doing so, they have blackened their own name and for mine will always be synonymous with being shameful bullies. I'm sure that one day they will wake up to what they are doing to their own brand and tell Gould to walk the plank.

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Post by Spud Murphy » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 11:11 pm

bigsiro wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:48 pm
I was going to suggest a poll but there are barely any pro-Cleary voices left...

I almost think we want him gone more than we wanted Taylor gone.
Nope

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Post by magpiecol » Thu 20 Sep, 2018 11:12 pm

Apparently there will be six coaches off contact next year. We have fifteen months to get a new coach for say three years. Also, a lot of good players are off contact as well.

Getting a top coach for three years should ensure some top players arrive.

Ivan can request a release from his contract and he could then coach penrith.

We would not have to pay him any money, as he requested the release.

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