Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

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Re: Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

Post by goldcoast tiger » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:52 pm

gallagher wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:54 pm
Abraham wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:10 pm
I actually think that its a really dumb move by the club to make this sort of ultimatum to Cleary - either sign an extension of we will give you the boot.

What if he signs the extension, and we run dead last for the next two years? Do we just say oh well, it didnt work out, here's a suitcase full of cash to walk away from the contract extension?

Coaching extensions should be earned by on-field success... not knee jerk reactions to approaches by rivals.

I get they want this resolved, but there are other ways to go about this.
Agreed, a contract extension is a ridiculous notion. It should be results driven not fear driven.
Especially if signed under duress, it would be worthless,
I’m starting (like some) to think that, unless there’s some hard evidence that He’s broken his contract, the club look like painting themselves into a corner with their “sign an extension , or else “, attitude


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Post by WT2K » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:53 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:10 pm
I actually think that its a really dumb move by the club to make this sort of ultimatum to Cleary - either sign an extension of we will give you the boot.

What if he signs the extension, and we run dead last for the next two years? Do we just say oh well, it didnt work out, here's a suitcase full of cash to walk away from the contract extension?

Coaching extensions should be earned by on-field success... not knee jerk reactions to approaches by rivals.

I get they want this resolved, but there are other ways to go about this.
Agree
No more plodders!
:sign:

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Post by Abraham » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:54 pm

Tigers17 wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:00 pm
This is long overdue, but THANK YOU Abraham for your intelligent, thoughtful contributions on all subjects on this forum.
Thank you for making such an obviously factual statement! :lol:

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Post by Nelson » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:58 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:10 pm
I actually think that its a really dumb move by the club to make this sort of ultimatum to Cleary - either sign an extension of we will give you the boot.

What if he signs the extension, and we run dead last for the next two years? Do we just say oh well, it didnt work out, here's a suitcase full of cash to walk away from the contract extension?

Coaching extensions should be earned by on-field success... not knee jerk reactions to approaches by rivals.

I get they want this resolved, but there are other ways to go about this.
It's always easy to be critical of things. I'm sure whatever "other ways" you have in mind would also have pitfalls of their own. The club is in a difficult situation and would know much more about how this saga is impacting upon the attitude of the players towards the coach and the attitude of recruitment targets to the situation than we do. If the players feel like he's sold them out his coaching style isn't going to work so well so maybe the club feels like it either needs to have Cleary "re-commit" to the club and its players through an extension or move him on. If we lose money, we lose money so what? I can't think of any other way to re-establish trust and if its been lost then he's a dead duck as a coach of this club.

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Post by Abraham » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 2:21 pm

Nelson wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:58 pm
Abraham wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 12:10 pm
I actually think that its a really dumb move by the club to make this sort of ultimatum to Cleary - either sign an extension of we will give you the boot.

What if he signs the extension, and we run dead last for the next two years? Do we just say oh well, it didnt work out, here's a suitcase full of cash to walk away from the contract extension?

Coaching extensions should be earned by on-field success... not knee jerk reactions to approaches by rivals.

I get they want this resolved, but there are other ways to go about this.
It's always easy to be critical of things. I'm sure whatever "other ways" you have in mind would also have pitfalls of their own. The club is in a difficult situation and would know much more about how this saga is impacting upon the attitude of the players towards the coach and the attitude of recruitment targets to the situation than we do. If the players feel like he's sold them out his coaching style isn't going to work so well so maybe the club feels like it either needs to have Cleary "re-commit" to the club and its players through an extension or move him on. If we lose money, we lose money so what? I can't think of any other way to re-establish trust and if its been lost then he's a dead duck as a coach of this club.
I'm sure that's exactly what is behind the Club's move, and they feel like this needs to be resolved quickly before the pre-season starts.

No argument there.

But solving one problem, only to create a potentially bigger and more expensive one down the track, is not how i would handle this personally.

There is a hundred other paths that i would tread before taking the option the club is apparently going to take... that is, unless they already know the outcome and have a plan in place once it is formalized. Then that is a completely different story, and changes everything.


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Post by formerguest » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 3:08 pm

One would hope that is the case, else quite expensive bait.

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Post by Harvey » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 3:36 pm

We need to consider more left field options.

Lock Ivan in a video room at concord and only let him out for coaching sessions and game days.

Can they develop a gimp suit with the relevant logos?

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Post by Tiger Steve » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:21 pm

jadtiger wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 11:16 pm
bigsiro wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:48 pm
I was going to suggest a poll but there are barely any pro-Cleary voices left...

I almost think we want him gone more than we wanted Taylor gone.
There are more than you think that want Ivan to finish the job he started. However we are not as noisy and vitriolic as the witch hunters.
Why is it that having an alternate opinion makes you a witch hunter? Can’t we have a sophisticated debate where alternate views are raised and discussed?

My opinion is that Cleary needs to go if his intention is to sign with Penrith. Don’t believe I’m hunting him in any way.
“Peanuts! Get ya peanuts - in the shell or sugar coated!” Leichhardt memories.

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Post by old man tiger » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:33 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 1:35 pm
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 6:49 am
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 6:40 am
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 6:35 am


Name a coach who signed to coach a rival team while still having 2 years left on his contract?

The point is any employee can be demoted.
So no coach has ever been demoted to reserve grade then? Wonder why that is

Hmmm 🤔
Okay tweedle dee. Coaches don’t get demoted because they get fired and are no longer wanted. We are so privileged to have a coach who doesn’t want us not the other way round. It was brought up as an idea to force penriths hand so they don’t get Ivan the terrible for free and we don’t have someone here whose long term future is somewhere else. If your too stupid to understand that then run along and keep count of peoples posts on things qyou don’t agree with or pull out your JT fan book and reminisce.
TP,
there may be any number of coaches who have signed with a club , to go there ,well and truly before his existing contracted finished, who would know, unless he made it public,
Don’t you get it, there’s nothing wrong with doing that , regardless if anyone likes it or not,

He can’t be sacked for that if he continues to Coach at the current club , and does so according to his contract,
He can be Paid out and released, but that is a whole different kettle of fish.
I think hasler had already signed with centrelink, and that's why he sabotaged the dogs.

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Post by jadtiger » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:45 pm

Tiger Steve wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:21 pm
jadtiger wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 11:16 pm
bigsiro wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:48 pm
I was going to suggest a poll but there are barely any pro-Cleary voices left...

I almost think we want him gone more than we wanted Taylor gone.
There are more than you think that want Ivan to finish the job he started. However we are not as noisy and vitriolic as the witch hunters.
Why is it that having an alternate opinion makes you a witch hunter? Can’t we have a sophisticated debate where alternate views are raised and discussed?

My opinion is that Cleary needs to go if his intention is to sign with Penrith. Don’t believe I’m hunting him in any way.
The reason i use the term "witch hunter" is because everything is based on media speculation and imagination.Not a single fact.I have no objection to people having a different opinion to mine on this or any other subject but at least stick to facts not rumours based on speculation
Last edited by jadtiger on Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by NT Tiger » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:47 pm

jadtiger wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:45 pm
Tiger Steve wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:21 pm
jadtiger wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 11:16 pm
bigsiro wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 9:48 pm
I was going to suggest a poll but there are barely any pro-Cleary voices left...

I almost think we want him gone more than we wanted Taylor gone.
There are more than you think that want Ivan to finish the job he started. However we are not as noisy and vitriolic as the witch hunters.
Why is it that having an alternate opinion makes you a witch hunter? Can’t we have a sophisticated debate where alternate views are raised and discussed?

My opinion is that Cleary needs to go if his intention is to sign with Penrith. Don’t believe I’m hunting him in any way.
The reason i use the term "witch hunter" is because everything is based on media speculation and imagination.Not a single fact
He looks like he's made of wood.
"Quality Stupidity"

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Post by Fibros » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:51 pm

Harvey wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 3:36 pm
We need to consider more left field options.

Lock Ivan in a video room at concord and only let him out for coaching sessions and game days.

Can they develop a gimp suit with the relevant logos?
The rorters did for Teddy.
We will smash em 50+ get on.

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Post by jadtiger » Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:52 pm

NT Tiger wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:47 pm
jadtiger wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:45 pm
Tiger Steve wrote:
Fri 21 Sep, 2018 4:21 pm
jadtiger wrote:
Thu 20 Sep, 2018 11:16 pm


There are more than you think that want Ivan to finish the job he started. However we are not as noisy and vitriolic as the witch hunters.
Why is it that having an alternate opinion makes you a witch hunter? Can’t we have a sophisticated debate where alternate views are raised and discussed?

My opinion is that Cleary needs to go if his intention is to sign with Penrith. Don’t believe I’m hunting him in any way.
The reason i use the term "witch hunter" is because everything is based on media speculation and imagination.Not a single fact
He looks like he's made of wood.
I wish i could link the Monty Python witch trial at this point but that is beyond my capacity

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Post by AnnandaleTiger » Sun 23 Sep, 2018 10:33 am

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/panthe ... 505fv.html

Nathan Cleary’s new deal with the Panthers could be announced as early as tomorrow and, according to the Panthers, it won’t include a ‘‘dad clause’’.

The final touches were put on the deal in a series of meetings on Thursday. One of those meetings took place between Nathan, his father Ivan and Panthers supremo Phil Gould.

Gould says there is no get-out clause for Nathan relating to his dad and Ivan’s coaching future.

Before anyone gets too excited about Ivan and Gould being in the same room, Ivan was at the meeting looking after the interests of his son: strictly as a dad, not as a potential Penrith coach. Gould was not there trying to woo Ivan. Gould says he has not been involved in any negotiations with the Tigers coach. Ivan’s management has confirmed this.

What Gould deserves credit for is the Nathan Cleary deal. It has been done swiftly, after the season, giving Penrith the hottest young half in the game.

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‘‘I’ve known for a long time that he wanted to commit to the club ... there is no real reason why he would play anywhere else,’’ Gould said. ‘‘Our fans have seen him come through the grades. He’s 20 and he has led us to three finals series. He has the potential to be the face of Panthers for the next 10 to 15years.

‘‘He can be the face of rugby league in western Sydney and I think it’s in the league’s best interests that he remains with this club and he helps them develop league in this area. We have been building a club around him and we will continue to. He has hit every mark that we have set him two years earlier.’’

Gould has been widely ridiculed since Anthony Griffin was sacked four weeks before the finals. The decision to pursue Ivan and remove Griffin was made by others at the club.

Gould would have moved Griffin on after the season, as the pair no longer saw eye-to-eye on football matters, but the board wanted Griffin out straight away after Ivan showed strong interest in the job during a meeting with Panthers chairman David O’Neill.

Gould doesn’t care that he is the man in the black hat when it comes to the coaching situation.
The person who is under significant heat is Tigers chief executive Justin Pascoe. His club has missed out on Nathan Cleary and is in real danger of losing Ivan.

Pascoe insists his friendship with Ivan won’t get in the way of what has become a messy coaching situation.

‘‘It’s the Wests Tigers before our friendship,’’ Pascoe said. ‘‘Yeah we have a close relationship, but we need to be pragmatic and professional. Once he [Ivan Cleary] talked to Penrith, he compromised that and I had to put the Tigers first.

‘‘I won’t be seeking out any kind of meeting with him because he has told us he will be honouring the next two years of his contract.

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‘‘When you look around, there are seven clubs next year who don’t have a coach for the following season [2020]. We do and we are in a position of power. We can determine any transition or an exit so we are comfortable with everything

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Post by TYGA » Sun 23 Sep, 2018 10:55 am

Pascoes strategy is high risk. Can we retain Brooks, Liddle, Marsters and attract talent over the next 2 years? Better off moving on with Maguire on a 5 year deal we need stability. Penrith are unethical and Cleary is tarnished badly but who wins the negotiation is irrelevant. It’s whats best for the Tigers and if that is keeping Cleary we are really kidding ourselves.

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Post by gallagher » Sun 23 Sep, 2018 10:59 am

‘‘When you look around, there are seven clubs next year who don’t have a coach for the following season [2020]. We do and we are in a position of power. We can determine any transition or an exit so we are comfortable with everything"

Pascoe's a comedian. A position of power...

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Post by AnnandaleTiger » Sun 23 Sep, 2018 11:13 am

He has the power to sign off on when Cleary can break contract. It should only be oncetgere is a suitable candidate lined up

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Post by gallagher » Sun 23 Sep, 2018 11:16 am

AnnandaleTiger wrote:
Sun 23 Sep, 2018 11:13 am
He has the power to sign off on when Cleary can break contract. It should only be oncetgere is a suitable candidate lined up
Yeah well let's see how he uses that power.

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