Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

Nucky Thompson
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Re: Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

Post by Nucky Thompson » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:41 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:36 am
TYGA wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:26 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 8:10 pm
How does those who say that he has to sign an extension (or not be the Coach )get around the legality bits , such as he CANNOT be forced to sign an extension , and especially under duress, which involve threats of removing him from coaching,

Where is the hard evidence of any wrongdoing.
If he wants to continue to Coach here next year There’s not much that the club can do, which is maybe the reason that they’ve been remarkably quite.
It’s a very simple discussion.

Would you entertain extending your deal for 3 years from 2020 we can improve your deal as we value what you bring to the table. The Answer will be NO.

Do you want to be released from your contract now to go and coach your son? Answer would be yes.

Speak to Gus we will do it now for 1.5m and we need a few players that don’t fit your style.

If not we will let you go in 2020 and we will announce it now so there are no ongoing issues.
He’s already said that he, honour his present contract,
Either we pay him out , or he Coaches here for the next two years. Forget the 1.5 m
It will end up he is free to walk.

Othwise will get ugly


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Post by GNR4LIFE » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:58 am

Tcat wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:07 am
Nucky Thompson wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 6:42 am
Here's one for you


Gus really is a piece of crap. Poor Penrith, the media trying to destabilize his club and poor Nathan etc. What about us? Gus knows Penrith tried poaching Ivan and now Nathan has re-signed they can just sit and wait while watch Ivan cruises for the next 2 years and we struggle to sign anyone long term. We really are screwed at present. We offer an extension, Ivan says 'No, not at the moment, I just want to concentrate on next weeks game yadda yadda yadda', we could potentially cut him loose if he doesn't ask for a release and have to pay out his contract in order to sign a coach that wants to be here. This is a real potential if we haven't sorted a deal with the Panthers. Poor Panthers, I feel so sorry for them.
What guarantee is there that we will even want Ivan beyond 2020? Things aren't looking too promising for 2019. We look more likely to go backwards as opposed to moving into the 8. That leaves 2020. Judgement on 2020 is obviously on the back burner for now pending recruitment. So much fuss over a coach with so little achievements here, and nothing too promising on the horizon.
Last edited by GNR4LIFE on Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Roar Power » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:59 am

The Bard wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:19 am
I thought it interesting that the father clause was removed from Nathan’s contract. You’d think that would reduce Ivan’s bargaining power for any future contract with the Panthers. If Ciraldo has a successful 2019 and the Panthers are on an upward trend then it’ll be difficult to change that by removing him.
Unless Ivan has already signed from 2021 onwards...

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Post by NT Tiger » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 8:15 am

Roar Power wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:59 am
The Bard wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:19 am
I thought it interesting that the father clause was removed from Nathan’s contract. You’d think that would reduce Ivan’s bargaining power for any future contract with the Panthers. If Ciraldo has a successful 2019 and the Panthers are on an upward trend then it’ll be difficult to change that by removing him.
Unless Ivan has already signed from 2021 onwards...
I really don't see why Gould would want Ivan back. To me it is evident that Gould did not think he was the coach to move the team forward beyond the rebuild. That team is now within striking distance of a Grand Final. I don't see Gould as being overly sentimental, so bringing Ivan back for a 'feel good' story would not be the first thing in his agenda. Gould has what he wants, he doesn't need the daddy distraction.
"Quality Stupidity"

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Post by Chris » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 8:51 am

"I havent spoken to Ivan and I dont know where we're at with him"- Phil Gould.

Gus, if you're going to lie, hire someone like me who has had the cops fooled several times when I was youngster to teach you how to con someone. No-one buys that you don't know anything about your club's discussions with Ivan. If you truly don't know, you should resign.


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Post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:07 am

Tigerdon wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:03 am
I wouldn't demote Ivan, I would keep him as head coach and employ Madge in an advisory role (like Brain Smith when Potter was coach).

I wonder if Nathan have a clause in his contract to move to where his father is coaching?
And pay for two “Coaches”??
That’s about as useful as trying to force Ivan to sign an extension.

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Post by TigerTiger » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:20 am

NT Tiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 6:48 am
The Patriot wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 6:29 am
TigerTiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:05 pm

The man's own son wants to play elsewhere.
Thats the kicker.
I think that is a bit of over-simplification.
His son wants to play where he has grown up playing in a group he has developed successful working combinations with. That group has made positive inroads towards finals football. So should he stick with them, or come over to a team that is still building and some time away from successful finals football, just because his dad coaches there?
I understand why Nathan would want to stay at Penrith, they are ahead of us at the moment in every single facet, all excepting one - his father coaching at WT.

The point is, if Ivan really believed that he would stay at WT and that if he had confidence in his own coaching abilities to mould us into a genuine force, then he could say to his son to come over and together they can make WT as good as or Better than Penrith.
But no, Nathan staying at Penrith says to me that his own father couldn't/didn't convince him to come over to WT (we know Ivan wants to coach his son), and that could really only be because of one reason.

Ivan believes WT will not be as good as Penrith in terms of an overall package.

That's what will make it hard to convince other players to come over, when Ivan's own son has insufficient confidence in his own father's ability to get our team to a decent level.
A one eyed supporter, mostly :crazy, always :sign:

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Post by Tcat » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:32 am

NT Tiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 8:15 am
Roar Power wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:59 am
The Bard wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:19 am
I thought it interesting that the father clause was removed from Nathan’s contract. You’d think that would reduce Ivan’s bargaining power for any future contract with the Panthers. If Ciraldo has a successful 2019 and the Panthers are on an upward trend then it’ll be difficult to change that by removing him.
Unless Ivan has already signed from 2021 onwards...
I really don't see why Gould would want Ivan back. To me it is evident that Gould did not think he was the coach to move the team forward beyond the rebuild. That team is now within striking distance of a Grand Final. I don't see Gould as being overly sentimental, so bringing Ivan back for a 'feel good' story would not be the first thing in his agenda. Gould has what he wants, he doesn't need the daddy distraction.
Gould needs Ivan at some stage to get/keep Nathan. Ivan wants to coach his son and it will be at penrith, however any real coaching or recruitment decisions wont be made by Ivan and he would know that.
Last edited by Tcat on Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by TrueTiger » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:33 am

I still cant understand all the garbage and insults to Ivan when initially he has signed a 3 year contract with the WTs...he got the team to a 9th spot finish when they were touted wooden spooners or bottom 4 contenders in his first year,he has said he will honour his contract for the next 2 years...that is all he has to do,where ever he goes after that is his business..if he wants to stay sobeit,if he moves on sobeit..


As long as he fulfils his agreement and OBLIGATIONS during his contractual term,he has honoured his contract..no more no less..


The rest of this drama is speculation,innuendo and heresay..LET THE CLUB MAKE AN OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT EITHER WAY so people can calm the nerves..as I said before I don't care if Ivan stays or goes as long as he fulfils his binding contract....
You may see me struggle...but you will never see me quit... :D

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Post by helmesy » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:37 am

TigerTiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:20 am
NT Tiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 6:48 am
The Patriot wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 6:29 am
TigerTiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:05 pm

The man's own son wants to play elsewhere.
Thats the kicker.
I think that is a bit of over-simplification.
His son wants to play where he has grown up playing in a group he has developed successful working combinations with. That group has made positive inroads towards finals football. So should he stick with them, or come over to a team that is still building and some time away from successful finals football, just because his dad coaches there?
I understand why Nathan would want to stay at Penrith, they are ahead of us at the moment in every single facet, all excepting one - his father coaching at WT.

The point is, if Ivan really believed that he would stay at WT and that if he had confidence in his own coaching abilities to mould us into a genuine force, then he could say to his son to come over and together they can make WT as good as or Better than Penrith.
But no, Nathan staying at Penrith says to me that his own father couldn't/didn't convince him to come over to WT (we know Ivan wants to coach his son), and that could really only be because of one reason.

Ivan believes WT will not be as good as Penrith in terms of an overall package.

That's what will make it hard to convince other players to come over, when Ivan's own son has insufficient confidence in his own father's ability to get our team to a decent level.
That's depressing.

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Post by Tcat » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:39 am

TrueTiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:33 am
I still cant understand all the garbage and insults to Ivan when initially he has signed a 3 year contract with the WTs...he got the team to a 9th spot finish when they were touted wooden spooners or bottom 4 contenders in his first year,he has said he will honour his contract for the next 2 years...that is all he has to do,where ever he goes after that is his business..if he wants to stay sobeit,if he moves on sobeit..


As long as he fulfils his agreement and OBLIGATIONS during his contractual term,he has honoured his contract..no more no less..


The rest of this drama is speculation,innuendo and heresay..LET THE CLUB MAKE AN OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT EITHER WAY so people can calm the nerves..as I said before I don't care if Ivan stays or goes as long as he fulfils his binding contract....
I agree with you to a point but the difference is too much attention has been brought on Ivan and his future which has therefore created doubt amongst the fans, players and club in general. The media and Penrith have ruined Ivan's ability to rebuild the team which is why he was brought here. 2 years is too long to know your coach isn't staying at the club and that's the main issue.

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Post by TrueTiger » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:45 am

Tcat wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:39 am
TrueTiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:33 am
I still cant understand all the garbage and insults to Ivan when initially he has signed a 3 year contract with the WTs...he got the team to a 9th spot finish when they were touted wooden spooners or bottom 4 contenders in his first year,he has said he will honour his contract for the next 2 years...that is all he has to do,where ever he goes after that is his business..if he wants to stay sobeit,if he moves on sobeit..


As long as he fulfils his agreement and OBLIGATIONS during his contractual term,he has honoured his contract..no more no less..


The rest of this drama is speculation,innuendo and heresay..LET THE CLUB MAKE AN OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT EITHER WAY so people can calm the nerves..as I said before I don't care if Ivan stays or goes as long as he fulfils his binding contract....
I agree with you to a point but the difference is too much attention has been brought on Ivan and his future which has therefore created doubt amongst the fans, players and club in general. The media and Penrith have ruined Ivan's ability to rebuild the team which is why he was brought here. 2 years is too long to know your coach isn't staying at the club and that's the main issue.
I understand what you are saying,however he has signed a 3 year contract with 2 years to go...he legally doesnt have to stay after it expires,no matter where he wants to go or who he wants to coach..it is a 3 year deal,that is all he is obligated to fulfill...
You may see me struggle...but you will never see me quit... :D

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Post by magpiecol » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:45 am

NT Tiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 6:48 am
The Patriot wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 6:29 am
TigerTiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:05 pm

The man's own son wants to play elsewhere.
Thats the kicker.
I think that is a bit of over-simplification.
His son wants to play where he has grown up playing in a group he has developed successful working combinations with. That group has made positive inroads towards finals football. So should he stick with them, or come over to a team that is still building and some time away from successful finals football, just because his dad coaches there?
Six million or so is a pretty good incentive also.

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Post by Needaname » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 10:14 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 7:19 am
Needaname wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:33 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:22 pm
Needaname wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:18 pm
I’m waiting for someone to dispute my idea of coming to an agreement for the coming season that the tigers and Ivan part way at the end of 2019. I believe that is the best outcome for all. It’s like meeting at an even price point when buying real estate.
If we can't get Madge or option 2 that will happen
Says who?

And if Madge is keen on getting back into coaching NRL I think we are most certainly the best prospect. It would be a perfect marriage. Madge wants to coach a team into a dynasty, senior success and sustainability through junior development. He is looking for a club that is stabbe and all the back office are signing to the same hymn sheet (his words not mine).
Sounds perfect right.

But despite pleas from members of the media, only Manly is talked about as his next destination which does not suit his list of preferences.

Why?
Cause we refuse to make a move whilst our current coach sits idle by.

Hmmm.

So how on earth could we be signing Madge for this next season?
Since when has our name ever been synonymous with Dynasties
Never,
But it’s what we want right?
And from what I heard from Madge’s interview on one of the Marty Johns show that he is keen to take a club from the ground up, build it for success whilst also provisioning it for sustained success.
Do you not want a coach with those qualities in mind?

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Post by NT Tiger » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 10:43 am

TigerTiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:20 am
NT Tiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 6:48 am
The Patriot wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 6:29 am
TigerTiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:05 pm

The man's own son wants to play elsewhere.
Thats the kicker.
I think that is a bit of over-simplification.
His son wants to play where he has grown up playing in a group he has developed successful working combinations with. That group has made positive inroads towards finals football. So should he stick with them, or come over to a team that is still building and some time away from successful finals football, just because his dad coaches there?
I understand why Nathan would want to stay at Penrith, they are ahead of us at the moment in every single facet, all excepting one - his father coaching at WT.

The point is, if Ivan really believed that he would stay at WT and that if he had confidence in his own coaching abilities to mould us into a genuine force, then he could say to his son to come over and together they can make WT as good as or Better than Penrith.
But no, Nathan staying at Penrith says to me that his own father couldn't/didn't convince him to come over to WT (we know Ivan wants to coach his son), and that could really only be because of one reason.

Ivan believes WT will not be as good as Penrith in terms of an overall package.

That's what will make it hard to convince other players to come over, when Ivan's own son has insufficient confidence in his own father's ability to get our team to a decent level.
I dont agree at all.
Ivan has been hired on the basis that he will make WT better than Panthers over time. That's the critical bit, over time. Wests Tigers are at the beginning of a(nother) rebuild courtesy of Ivan Cleary. The Panthers have been rebuilt and are now close to challenging for top honours.
So daddy can't promise sonny that he will be challenging for a GF berth sooner than later whereas Panthers can. It is drawing a very long bow to say that Nathan lacks confidence in his fathers abilities and therefore other players will also.
"Quality Stupidity"

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Post by Elderslie Tiger » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 10:44 am

It's time for WESTS TIGERS to push the issue by either offering Ivan an extension of his current contract until 2022 or by changing direction by appointing a manager of football operations either Madge or Neil Henry if Ivan doesn't want to extend and isn't happen with the change of direction we can sell him off to Penriff a win/win situation.We end up with coaching stability and some cash or player swap Gus gets what he wants.Unfortunatly Ivan is not much use to us if he doesn't want to be with us beyond 2020 cut our losses move on.

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Post by NT Tiger » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 10:46 am

TrueTiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:33 am
I still cant understand all the garbage and insults to Ivan when initially he has signed a 3 year contract with the WTs...he got the team to a 9th spot finish when they were touted wooden spooners or bottom 4 contenders in his first year,he has said he will honour his contract for the next 2 years...that is all he has to do,where ever he goes after that is his business..if he wants to stay sobeit,if he moves on sobeit..


As long as he fulfils his agreement and OBLIGATIONS during his contractual term,he has honoured his contract..no more no less..


The rest of this drama is speculation,innuendo and heresay..LET THE CLUB MAKE AN OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT EITHER WAY so people can calm the nerves..as I said before I don't care if Ivan stays or goes as long as he fulfils his binding contract....
I believe that Pascoe said in an interview lately that nothing had changed. IE Ivan will be coaching WT next year.
"Quality Stupidity"

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Post by innsaneink » Tue 25 Sep, 2018 10:51 am

TigerTiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 9:20 am
NT Tiger wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 6:48 am
The Patriot wrote:
Tue 25 Sep, 2018 6:29 am
TigerTiger wrote:
Mon 24 Sep, 2018 10:05 pm

The man's own son wants to play elsewhere.
Thats the kicker.
I think that is a bit of over-simplification.
His son wants to play where he has grown up playing in a group he has developed successful working combinations with. That group has made positive inroads towards finals football. So should he stick with them, or come over to a team that is still building and some time away from successful finals football, just because his dad coaches there?
I understand why Nathan would want to stay at Penrith, they are ahead of us at the moment in every single facet, all excepting one - his father coaching at WT.

The point is, if Ivan really believed that he would stay at WT and that if he had confidence in his own coaching abilities to mould us into a genuine force, then he could say to his son to come over and together they can make WT as good as or Better than Penrith.
But no, Nathan staying at Penrith says to me that his own father couldn't/didn't convince him to come over to WT (we know Ivan wants to coach his son), and that could really only be because of one reason.

Ivan believes WT will not be as good as Penrith in terms of an overall package.

That's what will make it hard to convince other players to come over, when Ivan's own son has insufficient confidence in his own father's ability to get our team to a decent level.
That's really stretching a long bow imo....

You don't get as far in the game as Ivan has without confidence.... And maybe, just maybe... He's allowing his son to be an adult, make his own decisions for what he believes will make him happy

Talk about twisting things :roll:

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