What should we do with mr Cleary?

What to do with Cleary

Get rid of him and get as much compensation from the panthers.
31
34%
Extend his contract.
36
40%
Upgrade his current contract.
4
4%
Make him fulfill his current contract.
19
21%
 
Total votes: 90

Silentio
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Re: What should we do with mr Cleary?

Post by Silentio » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 11:28 am

TIGERPOWER wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 10:06 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 9:45 am
Swordy wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 6:41 am
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 5:56 am
Probably need to tone it down a bit. We have no idea what is happening behind closed doors so this is all premature.
Usually I cringe at your posts paws, but very sensible mate. I agree.
Agree as well. Until he comes out and states his intentions it's all just conjecture.
There are a few facts that are out there and I don’t think anyone can deny them:

1. Ivan met with Penrith and didnt tell anyone
2. Griffin gets sacked and Ivan tells the tigers of his meeting.
3. Penrith have tabled an offer to Cleary
4. Cleary has said nothing since
5. If Cleary didn’t want to go, why does Pascoe and go find the need to keep saying they won’t release him, they will take legal action, why hasn’t he come out and said , this is not happening I’m not going anywhere. It can only mean one thing.
A few reasons:

1) You have to play hardball in the media. This is the right thing to do.
2) They know if Cleary wants to leave there's not much you can do about it. Forcing someone to coach against their will is at best terrible for the team and at worst, a legal timebomb. The best possible outcome (assuming Cleary is keen to leave) is to hang tough and hope for a decent payout from the Panthers or a few decent players.
3) Cleary going public would be a major distraction for the team and could derail any negotiations (if they're happening).


TIGERPOWER
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Post by TIGERPOWER » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 11:46 am

Silentio wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 11:28 am
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 10:06 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 9:45 am
Swordy wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 6:41 am

Usually I cringe at your posts paws, but very sensible mate. I agree.
Agree as well. Until he comes out and states his intentions it's all just conjecture.
There are a few facts that are out there and I don’t think anyone can deny them:

1. Ivan met with Penrith and didnt tell anyone
2. Griffin gets sacked and Ivan tells the tigers of his meeting.
3. Penrith have tabled an offer to Cleary
4. Cleary has said nothing since
5. If Cleary didn’t want to go, why does Pascoe and go find the need to keep saying they won’t release him, they will take legal action, why hasn’t he come out and said , this is not happening I’m not going anywhere. It can only mean one thing.
A few reasons:

1) You have to play hardball in the media. This is the right thing to do.
2) They know if Cleary wants to leave there's not much you can do about it. Forcing someone to coach against their will is at best terrible for the team and at worst, a legal timebomb. The best possible outcome (assuming Cleary is keen to leave) is to hang tough and hope for a decent payout from the Panthers or a few decent players.
3) Cleary going public would be a major distraction for the team and could derail any negotiations (if they're happening).
I’m 100% behind what the club is doing here. I can’t fault them. The only reason for Cleary not going public is because he wants out.

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Geo.
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Post by Geo. » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 11:53 am

Kul...^^^^^^
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..

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Swordy
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Post by Swordy » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 12:12 pm

TIGERPOWER wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 10:06 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 9:45 am
Swordy wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 6:41 am
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 5:56 am
Probably need to tone it down a bit. We have no idea what is happening behind closed doors so this is all premature.
Usually I cringe at your posts paws, but very sensible mate. I agree.
Agree as well. Until he comes out and states his intentions it's all just conjecture.
There are a few facts that are out there and I don’t think anyone can deny them:

1. Ivan met with Penrith and didnt tell anyone
2. Griffin gets sacked and Ivan tells the tigers of his meeting.
3. Penrith have tabled an offer to Cleary
4. Cleary has said nothing since
5. If Cleary didn’t want to go, why does Pascoe and go find the need to keep saying they won’t release him, they will take legal action, why hasn’t he come out and said , this is not happening I’m not going anywhere. It can only mean one thing.
Some context in my opinion

1. Ivan met with Penrith and didnt tell anyone
Ivan met with a friend to discuss matters not pertaining to coaching. That friend happens to be also working at Penrith. The discussion turned to future coaching opportunities but nothing more. This meeting and the substance of has been agreed by all parties.
2. Griffin gets sacked and Ivan tells the tigers of his meeting.
Cleary met with Pascoe in a meeting and disclosed his discussions about coaching BEFORE Griffin was sacked, not after. Gould has indicated he knew Cleary was meeting with Pascoe on other matters and that the coach meeting would make it to the media, so he then decided to sack Griffin so it didnt look like they were searching for a coach behind his back.
3. Penrith have tabled an offer to Cleary
From all factual accounts on both sides, this is not true. Media talk.
4. Cleary has said nothing since.
Correct, and this may be because he is thinking about going, wants to go, or has been told by the club to say nothing.
5. If Cleary didn’t want to go, why does Pascoe and go find the need to keep saying they won’t release him, they will take legal action, why hasn’t he come out and said , this is not happening I’m not going anywhere. It can only mean one thing.
Pascoe has confirmed the tigers position several times, I dare say in an attempt to quell all the media speculation. He needs to say something or the club seems weak, regardless of the outcome. See above as to reasons why Cleary hasn't come it. If he says something, he isn't focussing on a very important game ahead, if he doesn't say something its because he is leaving. He won't win either way.

Just my two cents worth. Dont get caught up in the hype until you hear the facts from all parties, and the truth will be somewhere in the middle.
Sunshine Coast resident.
Tigers fan since birth in 1969.
Fond memories of Leichhardt Oval every home game as a kid with my Dad!

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Post by Peter B » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 12:56 pm

^^^^ Well said Swordy !!!


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Post by TigerSJ » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 1:31 pm

The latest communication from Fletcher suggesting that Ivan signs for 2021 and they'll wait until then, has weakened our position greatly. Now, we are put into the position that many here are suggesting - that we have to let him go as his staying wouldn't probably be in the long term interest of our team. They have cleverly intimated that it will be our choice now and they won't be enticing anyone to break a contract etc. This affects our compensation claim as well because they will now argue that they are happy to wait and don't need to pay us out. The final nail for us will be them signing Nathan to a long term deal at which point we are well screwed. I hate to say it but we have been bent over here and couldn't have done much about it because in the end it has come down to 2 key points - Nathan wants to saty at Penrith and Ivan is happy to go and join him.

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Post by Silentio » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 1:36 pm

TIGERPOWER wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 11:46 am
Silentio wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 11:28 am
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 10:06 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 9:45 am


Agree as well. Until he comes out and states his intentions it's all just conjecture.
There are a few facts that are out there and I don’t think anyone can deny them:

1. Ivan met with Penrith and didnt tell anyone
2. Griffin gets sacked and Ivan tells the tigers of his meeting.
3. Penrith have tabled an offer to Cleary
4. Cleary has said nothing since
5. If Cleary didn’t want to go, why does Pascoe and go find the need to keep saying they won’t release him, they will take legal action, why hasn’t he come out and said , this is not happening I’m not going anywhere. It can only mean one thing.
A few reasons:

1) You have to play hardball in the media. This is the right thing to do.
2) They know if Cleary wants to leave there's not much you can do about it. Forcing someone to coach against their will is at best terrible for the team and at worst, a legal timebomb. The best possible outcome (assuming Cleary is keen to leave) is to hang tough and hope for a decent payout from the Panthers or a few decent players.
3) Cleary going public would be a major distraction for the team and could derail any negotiations (if they're happening).
I’m 100% behind what the club is doing here. I can’t fault them. The only reason for Cleary not going public is because he wants out.
I guess coaching his son and his son's future is his priority (whether that's with us or with Penrith). That's slightly different to 'wanting out'.

Agree that he'll need to put it to bed soon enough though.

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Post by dazza65 » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 1:44 pm

At the end of the day, we rally don’t know what was said or done by anyone. 5eres 50 different versions out there that change by the day.
If Cleary snr makes a statement that he was not complicit in anyway and wants to extend contract I’m with him on that.
If he won’t commit long term (ie signs for the riff in 2021) cut him loose after gouging as much money and players as possible out of them
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Tigers?!? - Driven mad since - 1969-201?

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Post by Nelson » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 2:05 pm

TigerSJ wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 1:31 pm
The latest communication from Fletcher suggesting that Ivan signs for 2021 and they'll wait until then, has weakened our position greatly. Now, we are put into the position that many here are suggesting - that we have to let him go as his staying wouldn't probably be in the long term interest of our team. They have cleverly intimated that it will be our choice now and they won't be enticing anyone to break a contract etc. This affects our compensation claim as well because they will now argue that they are happy to wait and don't need to pay us out. The final nail for us will be them signing Nathan to a long term deal at which point we are well screwed. I hate to say it but we have been bent over here and couldn't have done much about it because in the end it has come down to 2 key points - Nathan wants to saty at Penrith and Ivan is happy to go and join him.
That obvious bluff only weakens our position if we fall for it and I'm quite sure those in charge can appreciate that no club would want to have a coach signed up to come in years down the track. Penrith would not be happy to wait. Think of how it would play out. Ciraldo coaches these guys for two years and they form a bond with him (he's already reportedly "well liked" by the players). Two years down the track he's shown the door so the halfback's daddy can come in and coach the team and there won't be any noses out of joint? It doesn't matter that Ciraldo knows that to be the (supposed) deal from the outset, he's still going to be their coach over those years, not Cleary.

Penrith don't want that at all, they're just playing an aggressive hand.

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Post by Abraham » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 2:46 pm

TigerSJ wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 1:31 pm
The latest communication from Fletcher suggesting that Ivan signs for 2021 and they'll wait until then, has weakened our position greatly. Now, we are put into the position that many here are suggesting - that we have to let him go as his staying wouldn't probably be in the long term interest of our team. They have cleverly intimated that it will be our choice now and they won't be enticing anyone to break a contract etc. This affects our compensation claim as well because they will now argue that they are happy to wait and don't need to pay us out. The final nail for us will be them signing Nathan to a long term deal at which point we are well screwed. I hate to say it but we have been bent over here and couldn't have done much about it because in the end it has come down to 2 key points - Nathan wants to saty at Penrith and Ivan is happy to go and join him.
It only weakens us if we fall for it.

Call their bluff .. i'd be gobsmaked if any football club was stupid enough to sign a coach 2.5 years in advance.

Let's see the signed contract first, and then make our counter move. This chess game is ours to loose.

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Post by joe » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 3:32 pm

Stay focused, IC and the team need to focus all their emotions and energy on winning on Sunday, that's all that counts at this time.

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Post by yeti » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 4:23 pm

Agreed - the Panthers by waiting 2 years for their man are putting themselves in the same position as we would be in - knowing their current coach is there for just a short period.
Worse for them - they have the roster right now to win a premiership. In our wildest fantasies, we don't.
Call their bluff. If it comes to nothing, then we are no worse off. Cleary will be here for period he was signed for.
Simples

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Post by Mighty Tiger » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 4:37 pm

Keep him and look to extend.

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Post by Elderslie Tiger » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 9:50 pm

Lets do something radical WAIT FOR THE TRUTH TO COME OUT.
I still consider this is plan by Gus to save his ars* if Nathan goes Gus will be shown the door I believe all is not well at Penriff Goulds actions will place great pressure on the finances of the club.

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Post by bbobb » Fri 10 Aug, 2018 10:47 pm

Abraham wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 2:46 pm
TigerSJ wrote:
Fri 10 Aug, 2018 1:31 pm
The latest communication from Fletcher suggesting that Ivan signs for 2021 and they'll wait until then, has weakened our position greatly. Now, we are put into the position that many here are suggesting - that we have to let him go as his staying wouldn't probably be in the long term interest of our team. They have cleverly intimated that it will be our choice now and they won't be enticing anyone to break a contract etc. This affects our compensation claim as well because they will now argue that they are happy to wait and don't need to pay us out. The final nail for us will be them signing Nathan to a long term deal at which point we are well screwed. I hate to say it but we have been bent over here and couldn't have done much about it because in the end it has come down to 2 key points - Nathan wants to saty at Penrith and Ivan is happy to go and join him.
It only weakens us if we fall for it.

Call their bluff .. i'd be gobsmaked if any football club was stupid enough to sign a coach 2.5 years in advance.

Let's see the signed contract first, and then make our counter move. This chess game is ours to loose.
Would be funny if they hire Ciraldo and he manages to do a Trent Robinson and wins one in his first year of coaching in 2019.

I reckon Gus would hand IC out to dry.

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Post by Onthebus » Sat 11 Aug, 2018 7:50 am

Gus wouldn't hang Ivan Cleary out to dry, one reason...Nathan Cleary

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Post by Harvey » Sat 11 Aug, 2018 12:12 pm

Penrith leak like a sieve. People must be falling over themselves to get into that place with an egomaniac passing judgment on them.

Offering a contract extension would give an indication of where Cleary's future lies. If we are going to keep any good coach or players, then things like the CoE need to become more than an artists impression or a model

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Post by bp tiger » Sat 11 Aug, 2018 12:16 pm

unless he extents his contract, he has to go, the uncertain nature will make getting players even harder.

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