Salary Cap Rorting | Ideas on a Potential Solution

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weststigers
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Salary Cap Rorting | Ideas on a Potential Solution

Post by weststigers » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 11:29 am

I've often thought about how you stop cap rorting or at least minimise the impact it has on the competition. We've seen so many instances of clubs over the cap in the last 10 years and it doesn't seem to be changing. They're not taking it seriously.

The problem, I believe, is with the players and weak punishments. They have plausible deniability because their manager negotiates the contract and the NRL has the option for the punishment to be ZERO! The punishment for cap breaches should never be zero.

Here are some ideas:

WHISTLEBLOWER REWARDS
Provide financial incentives for whistle blowers to come forward. $100,000 to $200,000 for a successful conviction is a figure I believe would encourage people to do this.
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NRL COMPLIANCE
  • The NRL employs 16 independent "compliance officers" that work full-time at the HQ of each club.
  • Oversee everything to do with contracts, TPA's and player payments.
  • They sit in on contract negotiations, they report on weekly payroll, they are involved with sponsorship etc.
  • They are the eyes and ears of the NRL.
Potentially, you would need 2 or 3 people at each club so there is less chance of pressure or collusion to do the wrong thing.
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PLAYER CONTRACTS
1. " NRL compliance officers" sit down with the player, the agent and the club to assess the deal on offer
  • a) this is done at the time the contract has been agreed verbally and the paperwork is to be signed
  • b) this ensures players, agents and clubs have full understanding of the contract to be signed and the implication of the contract on the salary cap
2. The player must:
  • a) declare all payments under the contract to the NRL Compliance Officer and;
  • b) sign a statement asserting there are no other benefits provided other than those declared.

3. The player must agree to:
  • a) punishments should the player receive more than declared in the initial contract.

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PUNISHMENTS
Punishments should be black and white and they MUST have mandatory competition point deductions.

There is no grey area and intent should not come into it. Ignorance is no defence and clubs and players need to make it their business to know what's going on in their club.

1. CLUBS
  • Immediately deduct 1 competition point for every breach (accidental or deliberate)
  • Deduct an extra 3 competition points for every deliberate breach at the completion of the investigation
  • Points can be deducted across 2 seasons depending on timing of investigations
  • The contract of the player involved in the deliberate breach is void and he must play for another club
  • Salary cap reductions
2. PLAYERS
  • Fines up to $100,000 or up to the breach amount
  • Suspension of up to 3 months
  • Cancellation of contract and must play with another club
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I'm no expert and these are just my thoughts, but I'd be interested in the thoughts of others around what they think of the above and what they'd implement or change in the current system.

Ultimately, I'm keen to see change and if there's a good idea out there, the media might pick it up and put some pressure on the NRL.


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Post by Cairnstigers » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 11:45 am

My thoughts
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Club penalty should be

Strip the club of any titles won since the breach had been made until the day it was found

Take a million a year off the next two seasons from the cap

And a fine for double the breached amount
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Players
Loss of premiership ring if there is one

Fine them the amount of the breach they received

1 season ban from playing
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Managers
Loss of licence
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Grow some balls NRL
Take a strong stance and send a clear message

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Post by happy tiger » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 12:15 pm

Paul Kent made a really good point last night

Every Salary cap system that works is linked to a draft system

Obviously the punishments need to be far harsher , as he said when Carlton in the AFL got done in 2002 it took them 6 years to make the finals after the punishments were invoked

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Post by Abraham » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 12:37 pm

Where there is a will, there is a way.

As long as club's are willing to rort the system, they will find ways to do so.

The best way to counter this is by making the punishment so severe that clubs, players, and player managers will be so scared of being caught that they won't engage in under the table deals.

Clubs-
Fining them 10x the amount of the illegal benefit paid, and an automatic deduction of points, say 4 points for every $100,000.00 they are over the cap, would be a great start. Also a permanent life ban of any club official found complicit in the matter would be enough to deter most club personnel from taking part.

Players-
Fining players the amount of the illegal benefit, and suspending them for a period equal to the illegal benefit they received, would make sure that all players declare every cent of cash and non cash payment they received form clubs.

Player Managers-
A life ban from representing NRL players if their client is found to have benefited from illegal benefits.

All of the above is easily enforced if the club, player, and manager each have to sign a stat dec provided to the NRL declaring all direct and indirect benefits a player is receiving from the club. Anything outside of what has been signed off on is met with the above punishment.

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Post by TigerTiger » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 12:56 pm

Abraham wrote:
Wed 29 Aug, 2018 12:37 pm
Where there is a will, there is a way.

As long as club's are willing to rort the system, they will find ways to do so.

The best way to counter this is by making the punishment so severe that clubs, players, and player managers will be so scared of being caught that they won't engage in under the table deals.

Clubs-
Fining them 10x the amount of the illegal benefit paid, and an automatic deduction of points, say 4 points for every $100,000.00 they are over the cap, would be a great start. Also a permanent life ban of any club official found complicit in the matter would be enough to deter most club personnel from taking part.

Players-
Fining players the amount of the illegal benefit, and suspending them for a period equal to the illegal benefit they received, would make sure that all players declare every cent of cash and non cash payment they received form clubs.

Player Managers-
A life ban from representing NRL players if their client is found to have benefited from illegal benefits.

All of the above is easily enforced if the club, player, and manager each have to sign a stat dec provided to the NRL declaring all direct and indirect benefits a player is receiving from the club. Anything outside of what has been signed off on is met with the above punishment.
Completely agree with the severe penalties required, for all involved.
Only problem is, I don't think the NRL want to address it because they are all corrupt as, and are too busy lining their own pockets whilst bowing down to those in control.
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Post by Cultured Bogan » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 1:04 pm

Agree, needs to be some accountability on the players and managers for entering dodgy deals.

NRL should refer all illegal payments to the ATO also, to ensure they are taxed appropriately.
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Post by supercoach » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 1:12 pm

The NRL must punish the club,the player and the players management.

You will never stop it by just targeting the club as the risk of being caught is very low. The day a player is suspended for a season for accepting something that is not in his contract is the day the rorting will stop

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Post by Silentio » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 1:30 pm

From the NRL's website:

What players can earn outside the salary cap:

Unlimited - Players can earn unlimited amounts from corporate sponsors who are not associated with the club and who do not use the game's intellectual property (no club logos, jerseys or emblems) provided these are pre-approved by both a Player’s Club and the NRL. These agreements may not be negotiated by the club as an incentive for a player to sign a contract, nor can they be guaranteed by the club.

It's common knowledge that the clubs doing well have corporate "friends" that will top up a player's salary. No amount of policing or penalties will level the playing field as long as this happens.

The best we could hope for is a draft, but Terry Hill ruined the chances of that back in the 90s.

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Post by The Queen » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 1:35 pm

The way to fix it is easy all monies paid to players goes thru the NRL if I am giving Benji Marshall a TPA I pay it to the NRL I am giving a BPay number or something like that by the NRL

Then Benji Marshall is paid 250K by the Tigers and 50k from me any money paid out side of that is out side the cap and players have to report if they don't bye bye

NRL just keeps the 9.6 million of the grant they give the club's each year it's easy it's like they don't want to fix it

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Post by dazza65 » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 1:50 pm

I agree with Cairnstigers - the only way this stops for extremely tough action

1. Club massive fine and points lost - for second offence their license should be revoked.
2. Players (who always hide behind " i dunno mate, i just turn up and play...but know exactly where their money is coming from) fined 2 x the "overage" and suspended for a length of time
3. Player Managers, who in all honesty absolutely KNOW ALL of what is happening have their licence suspended for 12 months for first offence and banned for life for second offence.

do this and we will never have rorters again

or use a salary cap in conjunction with a draft and if the payers and managers don't like the concept of the draft

then do away with a salary cap and lose 1/2 the clubs and more than half the playing rosters
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Post by InBenjiWeTrust » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 2:06 pm

Agree with all comments, however, the punishment must be harsher:
-at least 2 years suspension for amounts 200,000 to 500,000
- over 500,000 suspension 6 years
Suspension applies to player, manager and club

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Post by Bones » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 2:18 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Wed 29 Aug, 2018 12:15 pm
Paul Kent made a really good point last night

Every Salary cap system that works is linked to a draft system

Obviously the punishments need to be far harsher , as he said when Carlton in the AFL got done in 2002 it took them 6 years to make the finals after the punishments were invoked
That’s something that annoyed the hell out of me with the Parra cap scandal. The NRL basically hit them with a feather and the next year they were back in finals. Meanwhile Wests Tigers and Newcastle has stuffed their cap and went about fixing the issue legally and basically spent 2-3 years getting pumped before getting a competitive squad back together.

I said at the time what does the next club do? Spend 3 years rebuilding or cheat and at worst pay a fine and stay competitive? It really favours the rich clubs again because a $1M fine just means they ask the leagues club for a bigger grant that year.

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Post by Russell » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 2:55 pm

Agree with most of the above - harsh penalties are the only deterrent.

If you are a club and caught over the cap (1,000 or more) - de-registration.

If you are a player and have benefited in any way from cap breach - total ban.

If you are a manager and have benefited in any way from cap breach - de-registration.

Let's see them deal with that.

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Post by Tcat » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 3:27 pm

I believe these issues will be fixed if they get rid of 3rd party deals (contract amounts for all to see and too bad if the players or managers think it's an invasion for privacy, they will never struggle to pay off their mortgages). If they need to increase the salary cap for all to allow it to happen then so be it. Until then strip teams of all titles and invoke harsh penalties.

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Post by will1999 » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 4:03 pm

apparently Sharks are a million dollars under the cap

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Post by Elderslie Tiger » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 4:07 pm

Why cant the NRL introduce a system along the lines of Super Coach or a points rated system if a players value increases during the year he stays on his original value until his contract expires if he wishes to opt out of his contract the present value kicks in could stop the current situation were players are kept on book figures proped up by TPA s a committee could be formed to assess player values with no input from the players club.

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Post by Tacky » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 4:11 pm

will1999 wrote:
Wed 29 Aug, 2018 4:03 pm
apparently Sharks are a million dollars under the cap
Probably got the Roosters accountant working for them
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Post by Cultured Bogan » Wed 29 Aug, 2018 4:20 pm

will1999 wrote:
Wed 29 Aug, 2018 4:03 pm
apparently Sharks are a million dollars under the cap
Sure they are.
It's not cruelty to animals if you inject enough amphetamines.

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