Time for the Coach to man up !

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pHyR3
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Re: Time for the Coach to man up !

Post by pHyR3 » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 9:52 pm

900large wrote:Can we please put the "look at the team he inherited" excuse to bed. We are half way thru the season, with 4 wins, and on tonight's effort we won't win another 4.
The team he "inherited" won 11 last year despite a dozen halves combinations and a stop gap fullback. But don't let a good story get in the way if the truth
Injuries killed us last year as they are this year. If we blame this appalling form on inheriting a bad side, then logically you have to give credit to the achievements of last year (or were they a good side then)
Benji didn't become bad, last year he topped try assists, this year he is topping missed tackles.
The coach doesn't teach the players how to play, (whats he going to teach Benji) he is there to manage the men and get them to play for him. I don't see that
Lets stop making excuses, and allow the coach to be judged on performance. That team tonight didn't even try.

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What's the difference if its round 1 or round 14? It's still the same group of individuals minus half the squad, because we haven't bought anyone for this season yet. ALL signings/resignings by potter so far have been great, fulton, farah, taupau, richards etc.

Also, sheen's squad won 11 WITH gareth ellis, heighington and beau. Also they had far fewer injuries and didn't have a new rookie coach.
''Everybody talks about their four brothers, we have 17 here so we don't really care about them."


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Post by Black'n'White » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 9:57 pm

900large wrote: The coach doesn't teach the players how to play, (whats he going to teach Benji)
a good place to start would be how to tackle, then maybe after a short breather sit him down and have a chat with him to confirm that making double digit metres on touch-finders is a positive for the team, and if Bunji can wrap his head around that, then push the limits and try to get his thick head to understand percentage football and the philosophy behind a solid 5th tackle option.

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Post by Magpie69 » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:02 pm

Black'n'White wrote:
900large wrote: The coach doesn't teach the players how to play, (whats he going to teach Benji)
a good place to start would be how to tackle, then maybe after a short breather sit him down and have a chat with him to confirm that making double digit metres on touch-finders is a positive for the team, and if Bunji can wrap his head around that, then push the limits and try to get his thick head to understand percentage football and the philosophy behind a solid 5th tackle option.
And Run the ball!!

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Post by Irvine » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:09 pm

I am sorry I know how you all worship Potter..... but in any team sport the coach needs to take some of the blame.
He is the one picking the under performing players and he is the one coming up with game plans.
Like I have said before I have not heard one player say Potter is a good coach...Have you ?

I am happy to be proven wrong but I just don't think his up to coaching at this level. His style is not one that gets the best out of players ...sorry Potts I am sure your a nice bloke but your Warren Ryan style of coaching ain't going to work in 2013.

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Post by Newtown » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:16 pm

If you watched our defence tonight we waited for the attackers to come to us. Our defence is disgraceful. The try which we allowed Gillett to score was Under 10's stuff. He stood there and not one of our defenders may any attempt to move either. I don't think that Potter or Roycey reacted because it was much the same in the second half. Before the club can move ahead these two have to be replaced with coaches who have specialist attack and defence ability and also the courage to lay down the law to their players.


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Post by tigermaniac » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:27 pm

Irvine wrote:I am sorry I know how you all worship Potter..... but in any team sport the coach needs to take some of the blame.
He is the one picking the under performing players and he is the one coming up with game plans.
Like I have said before I have not heard one player say Potter is a good coach...Have you ?

I am happy to be proven wrong but I just don't think his up to coaching at this level. His style is not one that gets the best out of players ...sorry Potts I am sure your a nice bloke but your Warren Ryan style of coaching ain't going to work in 2013.
Mate everyone is accountable. The way you summed it up makes me believe your someone that can coach. I also agree about the WOK style coaching is a thing of the past, but the Benji chip a minute before halftime ala Steve Mortimer was sensational, gave me goose bumps. Your right Potter has given Benji a recipe for disaster, we must change our game plan, show some heart.

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Post by Danoss » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:31 pm

Guest wrote:
tigermaniac wrote:Guys if you think Potter is the blame, sadly you got it wrong. Just watch the game and see who's enthusiastic and who's not, a minimum of 3 players always wreck it for us. BM, EP and BMM, That is the soul reason we failed tonight and for most of the year, oxygen thieves. Potter has stamped his mark, the only problem is players are contracted and can't be offloaded unless someone pays their contract out.
Responding to the thread title, Benji is on the way out. Potter doesn't want him. He's shown nothing, and he wants a contract extension, yeah right. Keep it up Potter, I'm with ya. Pettybourne is another big disgrace.

P.S don't ever have Benji captain again when Farah is out, you'll speed up the process of him leaving.

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Hard for bmm to be enthusiastic when he gets 10 mins a match. He has to be given a fair go.

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He's getting paid to play first grade rugby league, at Suncorp Stadium. If he's finding it difficult to be enthusiastic, then thats not the coaches problem. On form he's lucky to be playing FG at the moment, especially with the calibre of players in reserves busting their hump every week.

Even if he's only on for 10 minutes - BMM should be relishing every second he is out on the football field and working his ring off.

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Post by stryker » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:33 pm

pHyR3 wrote:
900large wrote:
Also, sheen's squad won 11 WITH gareth ellis, heighington and beau.
I would think that you have helped prove 900's point here. Heighno was no good last year and Gareth clocked off the moment he released the news he wouldnt be taking up the contract extension. Of these three, only Ryan made the team stronger last year and we have able replacements for him so his loss has been negligable.

Personally I dont think Potter has it at this level but am still prepared to give him time. One thing I will say though is that our attack has all but vanished this year and that is a major concern.

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Post by Newtown » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:40 pm

stryker wrote:
pHyR3 wrote:
900large wrote:
Also, sheen's squad won 11 WITH gareth ellis, heighington and beau.
I would think that you have helped prove 900's point here. Heighno was no good last year and Gareth clocked off the moment he released the news he wouldnt be taking up the contract extension. Of these three, only Ryan made the team stronger last year and we have able replacements for him so his loss has been negligable.

Personally I dont think Potter has it at this level but am still prepared to give him time. One thing I will say though is that our attack has all but vanished this year and that is a major concern.
I am sure that Potter does not have it (NRL FG coaching aptitude and courage to make the decisions required) and the longer he coaches at WT the poorer WT will be.

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Post by Robz » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:50 pm

I don't like it but have a feeling payten will be coach by years end :s

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Post by smeghead » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 10:55 pm

What I am seeing from the likes of Benji and his inner sanctum of buddies is the same I witnessed watching the Parramatta players churning through coaches with no player losses through deliberate no efforts and white-anting to team mates.

Time for changes
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Post by mtd » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 11:06 pm

smeghead wrote:What I am seeing from the likes of Benji and his inner sanctum of buddies is the same I witnessed watching the Parramatta players churning through coaches with no player losses through deliberate no efforts and white-anting to team mates.

Time for changes
you have been critical of potter, but then concede its the playing group.

with what he has got and the salary cap restrictions, potter can only do so much.

its not as easy as dropping 8 players and bringing in 8 new guys. its not possible.

he dropped benji to the bench, a move frowned upon by the majority of the forum (and rugby league publlic) , but then look at the tune change now? he saw what alot of people cant see (even though there are a few of us on here who have seen for a long time benji has been rubbish).

he will make changes this week, i have no doubt about it.

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Post by smeghead » Mon 17 Jun, 2013 11:09 pm

I am 100% fine with Potter. It is the playing group and culture.

Take out our one true leader for more then a week and Benji ball reigns.

There is a big clean out needed throughout the footy department at seasons end in terms of off field personnel and a few select on field personnel before we can turn this corner we need to turn
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Post by tigertales » Tue 18 Jun, 2013 12:04 am

Magpie69 wrote:The young blokes are NOT the problem !!!

Amen to that.

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Post by Irvine » Tue 18 Jun, 2013 12:12 am

smeghead wrote:What I am seeing from the likes of Benji and his inner sanctum of buddies is the same I witnessed watching the Parramatta players churning through coaches with no player losses through deliberate no efforts and white-anting to team mates.

Time for changes
Who are Benji's buddies ?

This talk of culture..everyone is gone most are now young players who have played under 10 NRL games...who is left ?

Fulton and Farah have been there for a while yet they don't seem to have a problem....What players are you talking about ?

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Post by Tigerpete » Tue 18 Jun, 2013 1:36 am

I don't buy anyone's criticism of Potter. I think that's looking somewhere we don't need to be looking for problems. There are multiple factors out of Potters control here which in my mind have led to a poor season.

1. Injuries - I don't need to explain it. It's self explanatory. Most injuries have been long term and to key players. And by key players I mean regular first graders.

2. Squad depth - This is perhaps the biggest reason for our struggles this season. I see some are suggesting our injury toll is no worse than last season and that results were better last season under Sheens. That's not entirely true. The injury toll IS worse and has hit the wrong players. It's hit our most experienced players. You only have to look at the average age of the squad some weeks. In fact you could name a stronger team of injured players than you could of players currently playing.
Now another reason to pin point squad depth as an issue is that in the last 2 seasons and most notably this season, our state cup squad has become considerably younger. A lot of the spots have been filled by NYC graduates. This is a direction the club decided to take and it's not necessarily an incorrect one. They just didn't anticipate so many experienced first graders to fall injured and therefore need to use untested players.

3. Potter's late arrival - Potter's late arrival has meant a few things. Firstly the squad is one that he inherits and was really unable to adjust the squad for better or worse in any way at all. Many of the pre season fitness plans were already in place. I've also got no doubt that Potter kept on the current support staff due to the fact that they were already there and time was an issue. It simply made more sense for him to adjust rather than to adjust an entire club so late in the process. I think it's safe to say we'll see some coaching changes at season's end.

4. Player form - This is another reason we can't compare 2012-13. In my opinion key players such as Marshall and Blair who both struggled in 2012 and now 2013, their form has looked worse due to the loss of other experienced squad members such as Ryan, Heighington and Ellis. But for Potter to have to carry these two when the squad was so inexperienced, the injuries only exasperated the problem further. Potter needed these two guys to come good this season due to the youth in the squad and they haven't.

Bottom line for me is that Potter does deserve some blame for our poor season but to suggest he has failed would be a real bad assessment. His hands have been tied behind his back. Criticising him is air enough I can guarantee you that with even half of the issues he's endured this season, we'd be doing a lot better than we are. Fact is this season is dead and buried. The players won't say it publicly and fair enough. But 2013 is a complete trainwreck of a season.

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Post by Robz » Tue 18 Jun, 2013 1:49 am

Tigerpete wrote:I don't buy anyone's criticism of Potter. I think that's looking somewhere we don't need to be looking for problems. There are multiple factors out of Potters control here which in my mind have led to a poor season.

1. Injuries - I don't need to explain it. It's self explanatory. Most injuries have been long term and to key players. And by key players I mean regular first graders.

2. Squad depth - This is perhaps the biggest reason for our struggles this season. I see some are suggesting our injury toll is no worse than last season and that results were better last season under Sheens. That's not entirely true. The injury toll IS worse and has hit the wrong players. It's hit our most experienced players. You only have to look at the average age of the squad some weeks. In fact you could name a stronger team of injured players than you could of players currently playing.
Now another reason to pin point squad depth as an issue is that in the last 2 seasons and most notably this season, our state cup squad has become considerably younger. A lot of the spots have been filled by NYC graduates. This is a direction the club decided to take and it's not necessarily an incorrect one. They just didn't anticipate so many experienced first graders to fall injured and therefore need to use untested players.

3. Potter's late arrival - Potter's late arrival has meant a few things. Firstly the squad is one that he inherits and was really unable to adjust the squad for better or worse in any way at all. Many of the pre season fitness plans were already in place. I've also got no doubt that Potter kept on the current support staff due to the fact that they were already there and time was an issue. It simply made more sense for him to adjust rather than to adjust an entire club so late in the process. I think it's safe to say we'll see some coaching changes at season's end.

4. Player form - This is another reason we can't compare 2012-13. In my opinion key players such as Marshall and Blair who both struggled in 2012 and now 2013, their form has looked worse due to the loss of other experienced squad members such as Ryan, Heighington and Ellis. But for Potter to have to carry these two when the squad was so inexperienced, the injuries only exasperated the problem further. Potter needed these two guys to come good this season due to the youth in the squad and they haven't.

Bottom line for me is that Potter does deserve some blame for our poor season but to suggest he has failed would be a real bad assessment. His hands have been tied behind his back. Criticising him is air enough I can guarantee you that with even half of the issues he's endured this season, we'd be doing a lot better than we are. Fact is this season is dead and buried. The players won't say it publicly and fair enough. But 2013 is a complete trainwreck of a season.
Great post Pete. Really enjoy it when fans put a well thought out post together. I like potter I can see huge improvements in robbie and woods I can see what structures his trying to implement with the cubs. Now that our season is all but over I hope we can blood the future but not sure if we can with the cap. With Simona and braith out for the raiders match Benji won't be dropped and Lawrence will be a straight swap for Simona.

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Post by Gary Bakerloo » Tue 18 Jun, 2013 9:46 am

Potter was excellent in the press conference. Very important quote right at the end, "....we just need some little people to help us out."

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