Continued poor defence

fergiefurr
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Continued poor defence

Post by fergiefurr » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 6:21 pm

Ever since the the wests tigers came into the comp we have been an extremely poor defensive team. For 10 years under sheens we never had a problem scoring, but all bar 2 years (when I believe folkes was defensive coach) our defence was a joke. I could give potter last year off as it was entirely sheens team.

Today was more of the same, I know it's the 9s and there is a lot more space, however when I see jarred Mullen running directly over the top of bodene Thompson I really have to ask what is going on.

This is a 107kg back rower, never coached by sheens, who can't put a small halfback down one on one front on. I don't see this happening at other clubs, yet when I see it happen with one of our forwards I'm not surprised. Blake Austin having a great shot on the smallest winger I've seen in years and barely making an imprint on him for the first try.

Seriously what is it? I was one of sheens biggest critics, however if our defence is a complete shambles this year the blame can't be put on him anymore.

I really hope I am over reacting and come the regular season this changes, but the last 2 days hasn't filled me with any confidence.


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Post by Snake » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 6:32 pm

I really don't want to be critical at this stage but in saying that I was very disappointed with the performances over the weekend .This all comes down to attitude and seeing there has been a whole off season its a worry ,next week should tell a lot.

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Post by innsaneink » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 6:32 pm

I guess....like with Potter, we have to give the defense coach a bit of time.

I hope too that things will change for us defensively in the 80 min format compared to what we saw today...but like you Im concerned.

Im also concerned the club is concerned enough and has reacted to this by posting spin late on a Sunday evening..."Its OK...we using the time we have by losing to do extra training"

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Post by fergiefurr » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 6:36 pm

Is hard to know if it an attitude thing, generally the bodies were there, even in cover, we just continually drop off tackles that other teams don't

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Post by Eddie » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 6:47 pm

The early signs are not great. However I think that is to be expected. It's been bad for a decade. That means it is ingrained, its become part of our culture. It's a well known fact Sheens was a soft coach that liked offensive football and the generation of players that trained and played here only every knew that standard. They could lift for big games, but we didnt play a huge amount of them

What I am trying to say is the good defensive sides have coaches like Bellamy, Hasler Toovey, Bennett who demand 100% intensity in training over a number of years. I doubt Sheens did that over the years. It becomes part of the clubs culture, ingrained, something to defend, its to be expected. Here be hope for the best, and lack confidence because of what has gone before us.

The rot set in with Sheens and SImmons with our defence and it will take more then 1 season to try and get something to be proud of in my opinion. I dont think its a lack of effort in general, although i do think other clubs has been held to higher standards over the years and it becomes a culture. Hopefully under Potter we can strive towards it, but it wont happen this year.

I don't care what sport it is league, soccer, afl, basketball, nfl generally the best defensive sides are the best sides fullstop. Thats why Sheens made 3 out of 10 finals series.


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Post by happy tiger » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 7:02 pm

Lets give it at least a few rounds before we all call for Potters head

Yes the attitude wasn't great today and they had some bad one on one misses , but some of our best defenders didn't play and we are always going to struggle in that format of football with our playing roster

In five weeks I will be calling for players heads like everyone else if this continues but our focus now should solely be the Top 8 and the week to week grind of NRL football and how we perform 13-13

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Post by Newtown » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 7:03 pm

Well here we are with Round 1 approaching and it has dawned on a lot of people that we need to greatly improve our defence. What has the team been doing in the off season?

I am unhappy with Potter publicly stating that the benefit of ingloriously dropping out of the 9's tournament is that the team gets an extra gym session. Who's kidding who Mick? Seriously I think that extra gym session should have been replaced with a Reality session for the whole team. Maybe Mick needed to pick up some balls from the gym.

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Post by alexaki » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 7:08 pm

I would take the 9's form with a grain of salt...it was a "fun" competition, where the biggest winners were those who attended...they looked like they were all having a ball...

What was apparent at last weeks trial and this weekend for the Tigers is how poor our defence and discipline is....we haven't seemed to fix this area up at all...and TBH if I am right its going to be a long season...but lets judge this after 6-7 rounds.

What was also apparent this weekend is how much we need an experienced player in the halves...last weekend with Anasta at 6 we looked really good and Austin shone...this weekend with Robbie switching from dummy half and halfback we looked horrible..Brooks will need a steady experienced 6 inside him...for Austin it may mean he starts in NSW Cup....next weekends trial against the sharks will be an interesting one.

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Post by willow » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 8:25 pm

At this stage I won't read into the defensive effort in the 9s. I'm quietly confident we'll see a much more structured and disciplined side in round 1 and we'll see how we go from there.

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Post by Wagga Tiger » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 9:57 pm

Without seeing last weekends trial it's hard to compare both but we did only let in two tries against the Panthers and both were off kicks. Can someone who was there give us a quick run down on our D last weekend.

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Post by phil1986 » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 10:21 pm

Wagga Tiger wrote:Without seeing last weekends trial it's hard to compare both but we did only let in two tries against the Panthers and both were off kicks. Can someone who was there give us a quick run down on our D last weekend.
Completely dif to what was seen in the 9s....

Very structured last weekend, very hard to find negatives out of that trial...

I'm not concerned about what we saw in the 9s, completely did game and structures

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Post by greatodensraven » Sun 16 Feb, 2014 11:24 pm

phil1986 wrote:
Wagga Tiger wrote:Without seeing last weekends trial it's hard to compare both but we did only let in two tries against the Panthers and both were off kicks. Can someone who was there give us a quick run down on our D last weekend.
Completely dif to what was seen in the 9s....

Very structured last weekend, very hard to find negatives out of that trial...

I'm not concerned about what we saw in the 9s, completely did game and structures

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Our defence was solid in Camden. We defended a lot of repeat sets on our line successfully albeit against an under strength penrith, although u could say we were under strength also as we were missing Robbie, Keith, Fults, Simona & brooks.

However we did lack some discipline against penrith giving away plenty of penalties & a few drop balls. This continued into the 9s comp unfortunately.

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 17 Feb, 2014 12:21 am

fergiefurr wrote:Ever since the the wests tigers came into the comp we have been an extremely poor defensive team. For 10 years under sheens we never had a problem scoring, but all bar 2 years (when I believe folkes was defensive coach) our defence was a joke. I could give potter last year off as it was entirely sheens team.

Today was more of the same, I know it's the 9s and there is a lot more space, however when I see jarred Mullen running directly over the top of bodene Thompson I really have to ask what is going on.

This is a 107kg back rower, never coached by sheens, who can't put a small halfback down one on one front on. I don't see this happening at other clubs, yet when I see it happen with one of our forwards I'm not surprised. Blake Austin having a great shot on the smallest winger I've seen in years and barely making an imprint on him for the first try.

Seriously what is it? I was one of sheens biggest critics, however if our defence is a complete shambles this year the blame can't be put on him anymore.

I really hope I am over reacting and come the regular season this changes, but the last 2 days hasn't filled me with any confidence.
Can I say that defensively I'd rather be trying to tackle a 100Kgs+ player ,than a 85kg bloke with footwork

Small fellas get you off balance far more easily ,usually have a low centre of gravity and combine these two aspects and they can make the biggest player look the fool
Last edited by happy tiger on Mon 17 Feb, 2014 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by barra » Mon 17 Feb, 2014 9:28 am

It was just so frustrating to see a lot of arm and jumper-grabbing, allowing offloads. Worst of all was the lack of commitment and not effectively stopping the ball carrier. I mean, sure it is a 9s game so there are a lot of differences and priorities like trying to get away from the ruck and back into the line asap... But you still have to complete the bloody tackle!

I hope they are better in the 13 man game but my optimism for this year took a serious hit on the weekend.

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Post by Newtown » Mon 17 Feb, 2014 10:49 am

In rugby league you still have to run, you still have to tackle whether its at the Cricket Ground, Lang Park, or the bush, a nines game or a 13 man team grand final. Potter didn't seem to get that into the players' heads.

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Post by king sirro » Mon 17 Feb, 2014 6:14 pm

Ball control, pathetic mistakes and decision making, and just generally playing unprofessionally has me concerned more than our defence.
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Post by innsaneink » Mon 17 Feb, 2014 7:55 pm

king sirro wrote:Ball control, pathetic mistakes and decision making, and just generally playing unprofessionally has me concerned more than our defence.
Probably a lot of that comes down to fatigue....if youre defending capably - competing in the ruck on an even keel or possibly even dominating (when was the last time we saw that) and not constantly running backwards, ball control and the rest generally improves

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Post by foreveratiger » Mon 17 Feb, 2014 8:07 pm

Usually bad defence comes from Match fatigue and not being fit enough to keep up with the tempo of the game , that's where sticking the arms out comes into it , pretty much what Ink is saying .
Well I remember from my playing days when your Fatigue your defending will define this point
It depends who you talk to on this Forum, if you are Optimistic? it's because your delusional and need a reality check. If you are Pessimistic? Your accused of being a negative Nancy and to go and follow another Club.

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