NSW Cup & NYC Teams this weekend

Russell
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Re: NSW Cup & NYC Teams this weekend

Post by Russell » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 7:22 pm

I believe Santi has to be in there somewhere - hopefully lock,


cochise
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Post by cochise » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 9:05 pm

bp tiger wrote:I will put this out there now, I believe JT has sold the TIGERS down the river by his willingness to forsake signings for 2 years. playing second rowers at 5/8 does no one any good. the lack of depth across the NRL side and in key positions in NSW cup is criminal. I can see both the NRL AND NSW CUP sides at the bottom of the tables for most of the season. Over the years it has been proven that u must mix youth with experience or the youths will fail more often than not. hope iam wrong JT but ur arse is on the line.
Willingness to forsake signings for 2 years, lol. There is no money to sign players, that is why there will be no major signings for the next 2 years. JT's arse will not be online becuase the board knows the position he is in.

I will put this very clearly for you, JT would love to sign players to improve the roster, but there is NO money available.

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Post by happy tiger » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 9:19 pm

cochise wrote:
bp tiger wrote:I will put this out there now, I believe JT has sold the TIGERS down the river by his willingness to forsake signings for 2 years. playing second rowers at 5/8 does no one any good. the lack of depth across the NRL side and in key positions in NSW cup is criminal. I can see both the NRL AND NSW CUP sides at the bottom of the tables for most of the season. Over the years it has been proven that u must mix youth with experience or the youths will fail more often than not. hope iam wrong JT but ur arse is on the line.
Willingness to forsake signings for 2 years, lol. There is no money to sign players, that is why there will be no major signings for the next 2 years. JT's arse will not be online becuase the board knows the position he is in.

I will put this very clearly for you, JT would love to sign players to improve the roster, but there is NO money available.
Two years ,what happened to until 2016

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Post by cochise » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 9:26 pm

happy tiger wrote:
cochise wrote:
bp tiger wrote:I will put this out there now, I believe JT has sold the TIGERS down the river by his willingness to forsake signings for 2 years. playing second rowers at 5/8 does no one any good. the lack of depth across the NRL side and in key positions in NSW cup is criminal. I can see both the NRL AND NSW CUP sides at the bottom of the tables for most of the season. Over the years it has been proven that u must mix youth with experience or the youths will fail more often than not. hope iam wrong JT but ur arse is on the line.
Willingness to forsake signings for 2 years, lol. There is no money to sign players, that is why there will be no major signings for the next 2 years. JT's arse will not be online becuase the board knows the position he is in.

I will put this very clearly for you, JT would love to sign players to improve the roster, but there is NO money available.
Two years ,what happened to until 2016
From memory I think it was until 2017, the mess people let us become, we are lucky it's only going to take that long.

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Post by Snake » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 9:37 pm

cochise wrote:
happy tiger wrote:
cochise wrote:
bp tiger wrote:I will put this out there now, I believe JT has sold the TIGERS down the river by his willingness to forsake signings for 2 years. playing second rowers at 5/8 does no one any good. the lack of depth across the NRL side and in key positions in NSW cup is criminal. I can see both the NRL AND NSW CUP sides at the bottom of the tables for most of the season. Over the years it has been proven that u must mix youth with experience or the youths will fail more often than not. hope iam wrong JT but ur arse is on the line.
Willingness to forsake signings for 2 years, lol. There is no money to sign players, that is why there will be no major signings for the next 2 years. JT's arse will not be online becuase the board knows the position he is in.

I will put this very clearly for you, JT would love to sign players to improve the roster, but there is NO money available.
Two years ,what happened to until 2016
From memory I think it was until 2017, the mess people let us become, we are lucky it's only going to take that long.
The Tigers sound a bit like the Australian financial situation the previous administrations have said one thing then the books are finally audited and the truth is there for all to see and it is not a pretty picture.It is a bit of a downer when someone does say by the way a new signing could be 2018... it could be worse I suppose my great grand children will be paying off the debt the previous guys left .


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Post by cochise » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 9:49 pm

Snake wrote:
cochise wrote:
happy tiger wrote:
cochise wrote:
Willingness to forsake signings for 2 years, lol. There is no money to sign players, that is why there will be no major signings for the next 2 years. JT's arse will not be online becuase the board knows the position he is in.

I will put this very clearly for you, JT would love to sign players to improve the roster, but there is NO money available.
Two years ,what happened to until 2016
From memory I think it was until 2017, the mess people let us become, we are lucky it's only going to take that long.
The Tigers sound a bit like the Australian financial situation the previous administrations have said one thing then the books are finally audited and the truth is there for all to see and it is not a pretty picture.It is a bit of a downer when someone does say by the way a new signing could be 2018... it could be worse I suppose my great grand children will be paying off the debt the previous guys left .
The Tigers books are a mess, we can take heart in the fact that Penrith were in a very similar situation a couple of years ago and Phil Moss played a large part in turning them around. Very astute signing by the new board.

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Post by Geo. » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 9:51 pm

Jack Buchanan, Michael Bullock, Andy Fiagatusa, Salesi Funaki, Dene Halatau, Kyle Lovett, Joel Luani, Keith Lulia, Te Maire Martin, Nathan Milone, Tim Moltzen, Kevin Naiqama, Pat Richards, Kurtis Rowe, Brenden Santi, Ava Seumanufagai, John Sila, Tim Simona

18 players off contract

Read more: http://www.zerotackle.com/nrl/rugby-lea ... z3RQsByFfp

All these players are off Contract at the end of 2015....It would be naive to think that they all will be retained ....common sense tells you new signings will be made....carry on...
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am
OK I was wrong
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 12:13 am
I know at times I'm not always the brightest light in the kitchen

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Post by cochise » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 10:18 pm

Geo. wrote:Jack Buchanan, Michael Bullock, Andy Fiagatusa, Salesi Funaki, Dene Halatau, Kyle Lovett, Joel Luani, Keith Lulia, Te Maire Martin, Nathan Milone, Tim Moltzen, Kevin Naiqama, Pat Richards, Kurtis Rowe, Brenden Santi, Ava Seumanufagai, John Sila, Tim Simona

18 players off contract

Read more: http://www.zerotackle.com/nrl/rugby-lea ... z3RQsByFfp

All these players are off Contract at the end of 2015....It would be naive to think that they all will be retained ....common sense tells you new signings will be made....carry on...
The comment was about significant signings, none of those players are going to
free up the cash for a significant signing as most would be on lower end contracts.

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Post by Geo. » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 10:36 pm

I have seen posted on this Forum that For 1 Moltzen is on 300K ...Richards and Halatau wouldn't be on chicken feed either....the rest i agree with....
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am
OK I was wrong
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 12:13 am
I know at times I'm not always the brightest light in the kitchen

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Post by cochise » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 11:15 pm

Geo. wrote:I have seen posted on this Forum that For 1 Moltzen is on 300K ...Richards and Halatau wouldn't be on chicken feed either....the rest i agree with....
Problem is in the current market $300K is not a lot and it's almost impossible to know how someones contract is structured. If Moltzen is on a front loaded contract it is possible that he is not on a lot of money this year and could still average out to $300K a year. Moltzen coming off the books is only going to get you a slight upgrade in ability if we signed another player and I dont think most people would call someone of that calibre a significant signing.

I do not think Halatau would be on a lot of money, he was a reserve grade and sometime first grade bench player at the dogs. Though with our previous management it is possible he is on larger money.

The salary cap is a mess at the club and it's going to take a couple of years to fix. JT has no reason to lie about this. There will be no major signings in the next couple of years, but I believe we are righting the ship in terms of salary cap management.

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Post by Geo. » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 11:39 pm

Good post cochise... i suppose it depends on your definition of significant signings.....Elite players don't tend to change Clubs all that often...if enough cash was freed up to sign a decent centre I would be happy...
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am
OK I was wrong
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 12:13 am
I know at times I'm not always the brightest light in the kitchen

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Post by happy tiger » Wed 11 Feb, 2015 11:43 pm

Geo. wrote:Good post cochise... i suppose it depends on your definition of significant signings.....Elite players don't tend to change Clubs all that often...if enough cash was freed up to sign a decent centre I would be happy...
Look I could be wrong , but I would suggest that 80 % of our squad would be on what most other clubs would say was overs for what they are actually worth

And there lays the problem

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Post by simonthetiger » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 12:49 am

happy tiger wrote:
Look I could be wrong
And often.

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Post by cochise » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:14 am

happy tiger wrote:
Geo. wrote:Good post cochise... i suppose it depends on your definition of significant signings.....Elite players don't tend to change Clubs all that often...if enough cash was freed up to sign a decent centre I would be happy...
Look I could be wrong , but I would suggest that 80 % of our squad would be on what most other clubs would say was overs for what they are actually worth

And there lays the problem
The Salary Cap is much more complicated than just saying our players are being paid overs. I'd agree we are paying some players more than other clubs, but a club in our position has to to a certain extent. Our major problem isn't the fact we are paying overs. Its that we structured too many backloaded contracts. Meaning we are paying a large % of a number of players entire contracts in the next 2 years.

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Post by happy tiger » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:18 am

simonthetiger wrote:
happy tiger wrote:
Look I could be wrong
And often.
Don't worry Simon

I wake up every day and hope I can be as remotely as wonderful as you are and have your exceptional rugby league knowledge and intuition for the game

By the way , does the tradie know that you actually fell out of the back of his truck ??

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Post by cochise » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:24 am

A couple of posts I made in another thread that gives an example of how complicated the salary cap can be
cochise wrote:The salary cap is a lot more complicated than just looking at the players and saying we can't be anywhere near the cap. It is extremely complicated and most fans simple do not understand the finer details. Things such as payments to players outside the top 25 who play first grade from last year actually get applied to this years cap, remember the number of injuries we had last year so this causes issues. The biggest problem is the back loading of contracts, when most fans see a contract value published in the newspaper they assume that the contract will be spread evenly over the years of the deal. This is often not the case, for example Say Brooks is reported to be receiving $600 000 over 3 years. This contract might be broken down to
Year 1 $100 000
Year 2 $200 000
Year 3 $300 000

So if back loaded contracts are managed poorly and a lot of players have their big salary years at the same time then what can look like a weaker roster can be much closer to the cap. This was the problem at Penrith and the reason that they shed players such a Lewis and Jennings. Now for a hint where the Tigers are in regards to this issue have a look at the employment of Phil Moss from the Panthers who has experience in dealing with this exact issue.

Finally there is also front loading of contracts, maybe the tigers decided that there were not a lot of options that would benefit the team off contract last year so decided to do the reverse of the back loading and set up a salary structure for Brooks of
Year 1 $300 000
Year 2 $200 000
Year 3 $100 000

Leaving them space in their salary cap in future years to purchase players as more appropriate players become available.

Those are just a couple of examples that make just looking at a list of players and declaring we can't be near the cap a difficult statement.
and
cochise wrote:
innsaneink wrote:Good post cochise...well explained
Thanks mate, it's also worth noting that many administrators mortgage the future for instant success. That's why back loaded contracts are so common and usually the problem they cause have to be cleaned up not by the people who negoiated the deals but the people that follow them. That I believe is the situation we are in now and the reason that Phil Moss was employed. The decision to employ Phil Moss gives me a lot of faith in the new board. They quickly identified a major problem and put someone in place with a recent history and successful record of dealing with that exact problem. This club is finally moving in the right direction.

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Post by happy tiger » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:46 am

Back loaded contracts are mostly important with the young talent

The Tedescos ,Brooks ,Moses and Cherringtons of the club

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Post by cochise » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:11 am

happy tiger wrote:Back loaded contracts are mostly important with the young talent

The Tedescos ,Brooks ,Moses and Cherringtons of the club
I highly expect that we had or have players like Blair on back loaded contracts which is why we are in so much trouble. But I'm confident that its in the process of being fixed. JT left no doubt on Sunday that the club will not back load contracts in the future.

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