Immaturity costs us big time...

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GNR4LIFE
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Re: Immaturity costs us big time...

Unread post by GNR4LIFE » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 12:07 pm

Milky wrote:Moses & Brooks have both shown they can handle first grade, no player instantly becomes an immortal. Ben Hunt for example. Ben didn't begin to shine until last year, after how many seasons in first grade.

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The fact he was playing as a bench hooker for the first yr or two might have had something to do with why he didn't shine.


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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 1:55 pm

Black'n'White wrote:Hate to break it to you sweatpea, but Brooks won us a game on his debut, Moses against dogs last year... thats your first sentence torn to shreds, rest of it goes down hill from the special beginning.
That's true, he won it by running!!!!!
Where was his running game last nigh when the Warriors were nullifying what we were trying. As I said in another thread, I was happy when he tried a chip and chase even it didn't come off. At least he was trying something. While I hope both these kids have great careers with us , the doubts are starting to multiply.
Warriors didn't have to be in two minds last night as both halves didn't want to run it
Halfway through the second half was the ideal time for them to take them on , but no , just more catch and pass.
It's true they show flashes of spark , but neither of them seem to want to take on the line when there is a strong defence, the result ?
Like last night when the Warriors defence ignored them and concentrated on the runners out side them.
I hope like hell that I'm wrong.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 2:02 pm

stevetiger wrote:
Tiger In The Gong wrote:I really think its time people stop talking about them as a whole.

Judge them individually.
I thought Moses was great tonight and Brooks wasn't bad. Maybe Brooks didn't step up but I think that is a tough call.

I think we copped it more via the refs calls that anything else.
I actually thought that most of the penalties against us were warranted. There was some pretty stupid ones. My only problem was that there was a lot more latitude for the Warriors.
At one stage I was surprised that we didn't get a player in the bin , for continuos penalties.
JT has said that it is not a concern, but I don't how giving away so much passion helps us.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 2:13 pm

Russell wrote:
TrueTiger wrote:Russell,I will support the WTs now and always,I just can't help but watch the hard work the forwards are doing and not getting an end result from poor last play options by our highly reputed and paid playmakers...

We were told these two are going to be a sensation,they have played heaps together and know each other's game through and through,to me their like lost sheep when the last play options have to be decided..hard work for little result...as you said Russ it's my opinion and I will stick to it...cheers mate...
Absolutely your opinion.

What I am saying is that they need all the supporters behind them now to give them the confidence to progress. At this stage of their NRL career, Moses is the better defender, Brooks is better in attack.

I still think Moses has not been let off the leash by JT yet. He can only do what he is allowed to do. Also in a game like tonight - you don't expect the halves to shine - they are not Jonathan Thurston - Yet.

As for being highly paid - I think that is a bit of a myth. A good salary yes but highly paid ????

Have patience Mate, I am sure we will reap all the rewards that were promised.
I keep hearing this thing about them being kept on a leash, but does that mean we have two playmakers out there that are not allowed to take it to the line?
If that's true, then holding them back might eventually win us a game when all the other teams get sloppy because they don't run, and then we could surprise their defence when they do. , but what about these games where all they do is pass. I'm getting more to the opinion that it is a mistake , having them of both in this same learning stage at the one time.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 2:18 pm

Magpie Magic wrote:No ball due to one sided referring was why we lost.

But re our young halves as I've said before on here they are a short term gamble.

Since they are juniors with potential hopefully we stick with them long term and hopefully it pays off. But for now they aren't doing enough.. They are not Tedesco or Simona or benji who has and can win us a game right now but hopefully it will come.
But in the meantime they should become at least more involved as support players using their speed as Moses done for the first try tonight and Brooks should take on the line more and use chips and grubbers that he seems to be good at while they develop other aspects of their game.

But right now hard to believe Austin wouldn't be a better 5/8.
We keep blaming Refs for penalties.
We are not the most penalised team in the NRL because all the Refs are against us ,
Most of the penalties are our own fault, our discipline was woeful last night.


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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 2:31 pm

tig4ever wrote:
TrueTiger wrote:If you guys and girls on the forum think Brooks and Moses will win us anything within the next five years think again...

Both are highly reputed playmakers on big money and yet failed to get us a win tonight when it was a winnable game for us.....

Kicks down the throat of the opposition,missed takles poor reads for last play options and the list goes on...

Brooks and Moses....inexperienced,imature,and most of all scared..welcome to the big league,it's good to be fantastic in your own age group but now they get run over,bashed and bruised,with little to offer in return..

The time and money spent on these two could be spent elsewhere if you want to win something soon,otherwise be happy to lose week in week out until they get enough experience, unless of course they get hurt and aren't seen for months.....

Games aren't won on reputation alone....if Tapau,Halitau,Woods,Simona and co weren't there tonight we would have 50 put on us....little glimpses of brilliance aren't enough to play week in week out in the NRL .....say what you like about me but this is my opinion and I will stick to it until I see an enormous improvement in these two.... :roll:
True Tiger, one word for you…..Wanker!!!
Well this discussion has reached the heights of an extremely intelligent,
Calm down ladies .......everyone's entitlted to their opinion here and entitled to air it here
as well, without having their loyalties to the club questioned.

I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't want these kids to succeed, but there's a lot of reasons being shown that that's not an ironclad gaurantee.
And while we support them on the field, there is no reason to be blindfolded to the things that aren't good about them as players.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 2:35 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
tig4ever wrote:
TrueTiger wrote:If you guys and girls on the forum think Brooks and Moses will win us anything within the next five years think again...

Both are highly reputed playmakers on big money and yet failed to get us a win tonight when it was a winnable game for us.....

Kicks down the throat of the opposition,missed takles poor reads for last play options and the list goes on...

Brooks and Moses....inexperienced,imature,and most of all scared..welcome to the big league,it's good to be fantastic in your own age group but now they get run over,bashed and bruised,with little to offer in return..

The time and money spent on these two could be spent elsewhere if you want to win something soon,otherwise be happy to lose week in week out until they get enough experience, unless of course they get hurt and aren't seen for months.....

Games aren't won on reputation alone....if Tapau,Halitau,Woods,Simona and co weren't there tonight we would have 50 put on us....little glimpses of brilliance aren't enough to play week in week out in the NRL .....say what you like about me but this is my opinion and I will stick to it until I see an enormous improvement in these two.... :roll:
True Tiger, one word for you…..Wanker!!!
Well this discussion has reached the heights of an extremely intelligent debate. :o
Calm down ladies .......everyone's entitlted to their opinion here and entitled to air it here
as well, without having their loyalties to the club questioned.

I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't want these kids to succeed, but there's a lot of reasons being shown that that's not an ironclad gaurantee.
And while we support them on the field, there is no reason to be blindfolded to the things that aren't good about them as players.

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Unread post by TrueTiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 2:57 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
tig4ever wrote:
TrueTiger wrote:If you guys and girls on the forum think Brooks and Moses will win us anything within the next five years think again...

Both are highly reputed playmakers on big money and yet failed to get us a win tonight when it was a winnable game for us.....

Kicks down the throat of the opposition,missed takles poor reads for last play options and the list goes on...

Brooks and Moses....inexperienced,imature,and most of all scared..welcome to the big league,it's good to be fantastic in your own age group but now they get run over,bashed and bruised,with little to offer in return..

The time and money spent on these two could be spent elsewhere if you want to win something soon,otherwise be happy to lose week in week out until they get enough experience, unless of course they get hurt and aren't seen for months.....

Games aren't won on reputation alone....if Tapau,Halitau,Woods,Simona and co weren't there tonight we would have 50 put on us....little glimpses of brilliance aren't enough to play week in week out in the NRL .....say what you like about me but this is my opinion and I will stick to it until I see an enormous improvement in these two.... :roll:
True Tiger, one word for you…..Wanker!!!
Well this discussion has reached the heights of an extremely intelligent,
Calm down ladies .......everyone's entitlted to their opinion here and entitled to air it here
as well, without having their loyalties to the club questioned.

I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't want these kids to succeed, but there's a lot of reasons being shown that that's not an ironclad gaurantee.
And while we support them on the field, there is no reason to be blindfolded to the things that aren't good about them as players.

Goldcoast Tiger,thanks for your input,I like many truly support and love the WTs,my opinion on the halves that has caused much criticism is only as I see it.....these two were reportedly the next sensation at the club,both have played much football together and know each others plays very well..I dont care for excuses about new structure and gameplans or the difficulty in playing nrl....these two have both let us down with last play options,kicks down the throat of opposition and not finding space off their kicks,the simple things playmakers are supposed to do...the forwards work extremely hard especially this year and on the end of the hard work they dont see a positive result,just more hard work...if Brooks and Moses ran the ball more or played whats in front of them then it wouldnt be so bad...Brooks chip kick against the Warriors was a delight to see,if it comes off it would have been spectacular,unfortunately we dont get to see this sort of play from our halves as other teams halves do a lot more of it..
You may see me struggle...but you will never see me quit... :D

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Unread post by turnstyle » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 3:09 pm

ha ha... i have changed my perspective on this whole issue as the season gets going. before the season began i had low expectations and just wanted to see the young guys improve over the course of it.
then i was critical of moses doing nothing.

now im actually quite satisfied the team is 3-3! add to that a good showing against souths, and a loss to the dogs they should never have lost, and theyre not going so badly!

i like that the club is showing conviction in sticking to what has been determined as the path to take. im happy with farah taking a less dominant role, moses is starting to show glimpses of what can be (one time last night i particularly liked a play he backed up...farahs break maybe?) and brooks hasnt done anything to get me too concerned about him although he seems to be a little behind where i would have thought hed be at this stage.

still, i think the buzzword for 2015 is patience. give the team at least half a season and lets take another look then.
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Unread post by TrueTiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 3:16 pm

Turnstyle,yes we should wait and be patient,however I would have liked to see a bit more of the halves that the hype was about,they both need a lot of time and all I can say is ..are we prepared to wait for however long it takes to show the playmaker skills they have been hyped up to have????...
You may see me struggle...but you will never see me quit... :D

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Unread post by The_Doc » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 3:46 pm

We have to stick with these guys, they will be inconsistent together at times but I think we will see the benefit in a couple of years from now. Brooks will be a superstar Moses has potential, I think in the immediate future our kicking game needs improving ASAP our long kicking game is diabolical eg Moses kick that put us right on the back foot leading to a try.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 4:17 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
goldcoast tiger wrote:
tig4ever wrote:
TrueTiger wrote:If you guys and girls on the forum think Brooks and Moses will win us anything within the next five years think again...

Both are highly reputed playmakers on big money and yet failed to get us a win tonight when it was a winnable game for us.....

Kicks down the throat of the opposition,missed takles poor reads for last play options and the list goes on...

Brooks and Moses....inexperienced,imature,and most of all scared..welcome to the big league,it's good to be fantastic in your own age group but now they get run over,bashed and bruised,with little to offer in return..

The time and money spent on these two could be spent elsewhere if you want to win something soon,otherwise be happy to lose week in week out until they get enough experience, unless of course they get hurt and aren't seen for months.....

Games aren't won on reputation alone....if Tapau,Halitau,Woods,Simona and co weren't there tonight we would have 50 put on us....little glimpses of brilliance aren't enough to play week in week out in the NRL .....say what you like about me but this is my opinion and I will stick to it until I see an enormous improvement in these two.... :roll:
True Tiger, one word for you…..Wanker!!!
Well this discussion has reached the heights of an extremely intelligent debate. :o
Calm down ladies .......everyone's entitlted to their opinion here and entitled to air it here
as well, without having their loyalties to the club questioned.

I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't want these kids to succeed, but there's a lot of reasons being shown that that's not an ironclad gaurantee.
And while we support them on the field, there is no reason to be blindfolded to the things that aren't good about them as players.

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Unread post by magpiecol » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 5:00 pm

They really do have to start running more. Johnson killed us last night when he decided to run. Both of our players can do the same.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 5:07 pm

One thing about our start this season, is that despite some thinking our defence wasn't great last night( and we did fall off badly in one 10 minute period) I still think that JT has improved our defence by a long shot.
That first twenty minutes, the Warriors were almost camped on our line.
At any other time , a team like them, huge , fast , and with that much possession , would have smashed us out of the game .
I used to cringe whenever any team got even close to our line , because it usually meant that someone was going to stroll over the line in the next few tackles. Not so much now , it appears

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Unread post by stryker » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 6:17 pm

They strolled over a couple of times last night.

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Unread post by Cosimo_Zaretti » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 6:23 pm

TrueTiger wrote:
The time and money spent on these two could be spent elsewhere if you want to win something soon,
And where could that money be better spent? If you could actually solve that puzzle you'd run a successful football club. In reality it's pretty hard to just buy yourself a working long term halves pairing.

You could throw a million bucks a season at a young, in form half like Foran who no longer fits into a more successful team's cap. Then you try to budget another 24 players and pray you got the balance right.

You could recruit the drunks, thugs, party animals, sex offenders, twitter trolls and wife beaters that other teams have cut loose cheap. These guys can win premierships for a team that can keep them out of trouble (or at least off social media). The Tigers have been keen to put the days of Field, McGuiness and Hopoate behind them, showing no interest in the likes of Todd Carney or Blake Ferguson.

You could bring up hacks from NSW cup who have the experience to sort of play the role, even if they don't set the world on fire. They're in their mid 20's, have plenty of match fitness, know the position well and probably played a few NRL games with another club before being found surplus to requirements. Josh Drinkwater has already been through the whole cycle, including a stint in the ESL, and he's only 22.

You could grab a 30 something former rep player who's run his course at another club. These are blokes who played for their state and their country, trouble is it was in 2006. Shopping for them is a bit like buying a second hand car, there's good value out there, but it's a gamble. The Tigers passed on Luke Lewis at the same time they bought Braith Anasta. Luke Lewis was playing origin while Anasta was injured on the sidelines on his way to a full time media gig. The Tigers decision could just as easily gone the other way.

Or you could back the best talent from your development system and see what happens. We're at 50% win/loss with the youngest halves pairing in the comp. We're hardly in crisis. This side will improve, and if we don't have a cascade of injuries we should play finals footy this year.

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Unread post by happy tiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 6:24 pm

I don't know what people expect from blokes with less than 30 games of NRL when we get towelled up in the forwards ,we lose the ruck and we don't have a 50/50 split of the ball ??

We could of had Lewis and Johns as our halves and still lost

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Unread post by NT Tiger » Sun 12 Apr, 2015 6:42 pm

There will always be a chicken that says "the sky is falling", I'm happy to be the turkey and be patient.
"Quality Stupidity"

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