Buy Some Talent

Newtown
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Re: Buy Some Talent

Unread post by Newtown » Sat 09 May, 2015 12:05 am

We have brought the youngsters on too early to first grade and have done them a disservice by not providing them with competent experienced first graders to guide them through first grade. We are not looking after our investments.


Fumbles
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Unread post by Fumbles » Sat 09 May, 2015 12:09 am

Tigersman wrote:Penrith did..

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Most players I notice have been signed to 2017 but anyone over 30 can leave now.
I would say there is a plan and that includes hiring The Penrith guy who is now with us. Moss ? He keeps a low profile whatever his name is.

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Unread post by sunshine coast tiger » Sat 09 May, 2015 5:52 am

The biggest issue with our club is the management of the salary cap. If we are spending the full amount we are spending it very ineffectively when you look at our rooster compared to the top sides (Roosters, Souths , Dogs etc..), we have a very poor rooster with a lot of players that would get no where near the top sides top 25 players.

So what are we doing wrong? My opinion is that whilst the NRL like to harp on about the salary cap and evenness to the comp the top sides play way over the allowed salary cap ( wouldn't surprise me if they pay their players about $1 million over the cap). How do they do this, they use Third Party Agreements to pay their players more. The NRL have never sorted this out and have little desire to make the Third Party Agreements a fair system limited to the same amounts for each club.

We pay overs to a lot of junior players hoping they become great players. Despite what has been said for the current level of ability we pay our juniors too much to get them to stay at the club. Guys like Brooks, Mosses, Sironen, Tedesco, Simona etc are payed significantly above their current level of ability (we are taking a punt on how good they could be, same happened with a lot of our young players from the 2005 squad, we payed overs to keep them) and signed to 3-4 year deals to keep them from other clubs. It is a good idea if you could put them under the cap at a smaller amount and have a lot of the money coming from Third Parties but we don't. It is a hard situation as other clubs are waiting to cherry pick our juniors. Other problem with this as they get better and their contracts start to end they will all want greater money.

The above for mine means that we don't have enough salary cap room to buy the experienced better than average first grader in positions we need. Since Ellis has left the club we have needed a top back rower, we spent big money on Blair who was no where near what we required. We need to buy good experienced players is positions of need to help the development of our juniors coming through. To attract good players to our club we have to pay offers to get them here at the moment.

Some mentioned Penrith as they way to go and in many respect they are a model worth following. They have a very large and strong junior league with plently of young talent coming through. They brought the right coach in Ivan Cleary. They made hard decisions and got rid of over paid non performing players in Luke Lewis and Jennings. They have recruited very well to supplement their juniors. They brought players in the key positions they most needed in Jamie Soward and Peter Wallace (actually a Penrith junior who went elsewhere). They brought experienced good first graders ( Brent Kite, Lewis Brown, Elijah Taylor,James Segeyaro, Jamal Idris etc....). These experienced players not all big names but all appear to have the right attitude help the development of the young players. They even buy good young talent from other clubs that are better than their local juniors (eg Peachey).

I can only hope Phil Moss was a big part of what happened at the Panthers and can do the same think at our club. We need to make some hard decisions to cut some under performing players. Guys that should be on this list include: Keith (probably on a lot more at our club than he could get elsewhere), Lawrence, Dene, Moltzen (would hate to think what we actually pay him) etc. We need to recruit good players in position of need and then fill the squad with the right experienced players around them. The junior talent base is their we need to work out how to add to it. It can be done but in our recent history we have been very poor recruiters and have been inept in our managing of the salary cap.

Tiger In The Gong

Unread post by Tiger In The Gong » Sat 09 May, 2015 7:29 am

I hate using the Penrith example as something we should do. You never get anywhere in life following, you need to lead and create your own thing.

What our team needs the most is leaders, solid human beings who dont like losing and are competitive and professional. Farah's captaincy has hit a wall and he has little or no help around him to get the team out of tough situations.

I'd look at some of these guys -


, Alex Glenn, , Sam Thaiday,
David Shillington,
Corey Thompson
Tinirau Arona, Michael Gordon, Nate Myles
Mahe Fonua,Felise Kaufusi,
Chad Townsend,
Jeremy Smith, Kade Snowden,
Ben Spina
Beau Champion, , Darcy Lussick,
Lewis Brown, Adam Docker, Sika Manu,
Jason Nightingale
Shaun Kenny-Dowall,

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Unread post by Tigerspirit » Sat 09 May, 2015 7:46 am

Tigersman wrote:Penrith did..

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Only half the solution....
There major factor is they prrchased key players with x factors, soward, wallace, seryavo, jamal

Tigers only buy crap

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Unread post by supercoach » Sat 09 May, 2015 9:12 am

It took Souths about four years with much the same team to build up to win a comp, it just dosnt happen over night. Its all about laying the foundations and building from their and that what Taylor is doing. This team will be a very good team but it is probably going to take another two years and their will be only minimal changes to the roster I would imagine. Be patient half the team are kids

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foreveratiger
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Unread post by foreveratiger » Sat 09 May, 2015 9:15 am

IMO We are paying the price for having to many players the Club believe are the real deal.
POTENTIAL is the word our Club loves us to believe in and we are lacking experience out there big time.
Because our Salary Cap is so screwed up somehow? It will be a while before we sign anyone that makes us want to do Cartwheels.
I think there has been some dodgy things happening at our Club the last couple of years, Management have a lot to answer for IMO
It depends who you talk to on this Forum, if you are Optimistic? it's because your delusional and need a reality check. If you are Pessimistic? Your accused of being a negative Nancy and to go and follow another Club.

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Unread post by Mighty Tiger » Sat 09 May, 2015 9:26 am

Tigersman wrote:Penrith did..

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Manly, Knights, Dragons, Broncos, Raiders, Cowboys and Warriors all do as well.

People just want instant success which if chased might deliver 1 good season but will cripple the club for over a decade.

We need to build the club from the bottom up to deliver a new culture and longterm success

Juniors is the way to go mixed with experience. We had a large turn over of experience the last 2yrs and now need to gain this for next season despite the books being terrible.

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Tiger In The Gong

Unread post by Tiger In The Gong » Sat 09 May, 2015 9:30 am

supercoach wrote:Be patient half the team are kids

Thats the problem, half the team 'are' kids. We are paying the price for that.

Why should we be patient, we have been patient for 10 years.

Tiger In The Gong

Unread post by Tiger In The Gong » Sat 09 May, 2015 9:32 am

[quote="Mighty Tiger"

Juniors is the way to go mixed with experience. We had a large turn over of experience the last 2yrs and now need to gain this for next season despite the books being terrible.

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Why are we now trying to gain something we consciously let go of?

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foreveratiger
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Unread post by foreveratiger » Sat 09 May, 2015 9:39 am

Mighty Tiger wrote:
Tigersman wrote:Penrith did..

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Manly, Knights, Dragons, Broncos, Raiders, Cowboys and Warriors all do as well.

People just want instant success which if chased might deliver 1 good season but will cripple the club for over a decade.

We need to build the club from the bottom up to deliver a new culture and longterm success

Juniors is the way to go mixed with experience. We had a large turn over of experience the last 2yrs and now need to gain this for next season despite the books being terrible.

Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0
Instant success :shock:, in 15 years we have won 1 Comp played Semi finals footy 3 times. So we should get used to being a mediocre side that live in hope that certain players become the real deal.
Who is to say that Brooks and Moses will be the combination that everyone is hoping will be in a few years time? Then what in 2 years time if it hasn't been what we expected we start again and all that money we invested in them goes to waste?
I have patience but when you see a player in Austin go and kill it in another Club and for City last week that is when you feel there is an agenda for Moses, cause IMO he shouldn't even be in 1st grade.
It depends who you talk to on this Forum, if you are Optimistic? it's because your delusional and need a reality check. If you are Pessimistic? Your accused of being a negative Nancy and to go and follow another Club.

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Unread post by happy tiger » Sat 09 May, 2015 9:49 am

I think we need to wait and see what JT's end game is with Moses

He obviously is being held back from playing his natural game to try and keep things structured for Brooks and to a lesser extent Tedesco

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Unread post by cktiger » Sat 09 May, 2015 9:59 am

We have the talent but unfortunately Taylor doesn't want to use it while we build 'structure'.
Farah looks like a lost man- no matter what he says publicly.
Brooks and Moses both have great running games, with Brooks having a fantastic short kicking game and Moses a wonderful passing game.
But when do we get to see it?
Let the boys loose with Tedesco running off the back of them.
And tell the forwards to bloody tackle.

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Unread post by supercoach » Sat 09 May, 2015 10:04 am

I am as frustrated as everyone else with our team and their achievements over the past decade but I am also a realist. Their is no quick fix and even if we had the cap space and money its very hard to find top shelve quality players on the open market and if you do you are competing with 15 other clubs for their signature.

I think Taylor will know by the end of this season what kids will make the grade and what kids will not make the grade and start trying to make the necessary recruitment but I am confident some good years are not far away

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Unread post by foreveratiger » Sat 09 May, 2015 10:29 am

supercoach wrote:I am as frustrated as everyone else with our team and their achievements over the past decade but I am also a realist. Their is no quick fix and even if we had the cap space and money its very hard to find top shelve quality players on the open market and if you do you are competing with 15 other clubs for their signature.

I think Taylor will know by the end of this season what kids will make the grade and what kids will not make the grade and start trying to make the necessary recruitment but I am confident some good years are not far away
If you have the money and Cap space? Players will come, just like Trent Merrin was asked the other Day was there a chance he could renege his deal with the Panthers and stay a Dragon since they were doing so well? He said no way his going to Penrith and money would be a big factor and always is. Look at RTS going to the Warriors? Who would of thought that? with Minichello retired last year. Even Foran and Daly Cherry Evans who would of thought they leave, even Issac Luke.
You have money you will get your Man most times than not, some will take a pay cut and remain Loyal but not to many.
Where as our Club haven't signed anyone that has got us excited in about 4 years. We signed Taupau and Naiqama which eventuated in good signings but were Reserve Grade players when we signed them.
Our Salary Cap must be diabolical.
It depends who you talk to on this Forum, if you are Optimistic? it's because your delusional and need a reality check. If you are Pessimistic? Your accused of being a negative Nancy and to go and follow another Club.

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Unread post by stevetiger » Sat 09 May, 2015 10:57 am

I don't think we need to buy some talent. I think we need to recruit and retain the right players. Naiqama, Blair, Austin, Koro, Halatau are examples of the right and wrong retention and recruitment.

I don't think we should be buying top name players. I think we should be smart in who we recruit. At the same time we need to retain the right players. Look for gaps and look for quality replacements.

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Unread post by bp tiger » Sat 09 May, 2015 11:57 am

we need players with some bulk, when u se the rooters players next to our players u can see the difference. EXAMPLE, sirro up against cordner and lui what a miss match. we held strong for 1/2 each 1/2 but there big bodies wore them down, for god sake JT buy some forwards and backs with bulk.

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Unread post by yeti » Sat 09 May, 2015 1:15 pm

God this is predictable - after every loss it's the same old same old - buy this guy, buy that guy, why is our roster crap, why can't we compete in the open market for decent players, why has Taylor not done anything? blah blah blah.
And no matter how many times the same explanations are forthcoming - past incompetencies from the management of our salary cap re back ended contracts etc, a divided board, no management structures in place and so on, we get this same crap!
I know this current society is all about immediate gratification, but for f@#&% sake, this is going to take some time to turn around folks!
Anyway, carry on ...

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