What point of unshackling attack if you let in 42?

TrueTiger
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Re: What point of unshackling attack if you let in 42?

Post by TrueTiger » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 2:54 pm

stryker wrote:8-0 = loss
42-16 = loss.

Same sh#t, different bucket...both games showcased our depicable defence and weak aptitudes. You are talking crap Jirskyr.
Stryker,Jirskyr is saying we are getting beat,but not as bad as the losses prior...
You may see me struggle...but you will never see me quit... :D


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Post by stryker » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 2:55 pm

Btw that 8-0 loss was close to my lowest point as a Tigers fan. I was ashamed of the pathetic rubbish I saw from us that night. That wasn't Rugby League...that was scared little kids drowning in the uselessness of their coach and his system.

Yesterday was dreadful but I saw some of those scared kids back themselves in both attack and defence. They tried to win, they just weren't anywhere near good enough.

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GNR4LIFE
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Post by GNR4LIFE » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 3:03 pm

So its the fans fault the team conceded 42 points?

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Post by ricksen » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 3:48 pm

jirskyr wrote:I saw yesterday's game as the old Tigers, absolutely no step in the right direction, chancing our hand and paper-thin defence. I saw exactly the kind of performance that achieves 3 finals in 15 years. And somehow some people prefer this to a dour 8-0 loss.
Can't speak for others, but both games were infuriating IMO, for differing reasons.

Remember that the Cowboys were heavily depleted in that game, plus were playing away in Sydney, where they traditionally have a very average record.
Plus it was more the reaction of JT that irked than the performance - he was seemingly ecstatic about our defence, despite us missing 30+ tackles and the Cowboys marching up and down the field at will. That they only scored one try was not a true reflection of our defensive proficiency IMO.

No doubt that yesterday was disgusting for the most part, and to be honest I find the positivity a bit bemusing given how flimsy our defence was. JT has rightly placed emphasis on improving our defence, but to me it's a huge concern that we're still as poor as ever 19 rounds and a full off-season into his reign.

Further, we ruined yesterday's potential comeback with impatience and immaturity - wanted to score on every set rather than try and grind our way to some good field position.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 4:16 pm

For what its worth, I also think that the Cows game was the worst game I've seen in a long time. Both teams had quite a few chances to win it at different times, and all they did was the mind numbing rubbish that we all sat through,
The big gloat about the good defence was a joke. The attack from both sides never asked any questions ot the oppositions defence, in fact the one thing that made the defence easier , was that neither team could hold on to the ball. The handling was Z Grade throughout the game, the one good thing about the game was that you could take your time getting a coldie from the fridge, as you were no chance of missing anything
Our big test is still ahead.
You can bet that the Roosters won't be giving a players a holiday this week.
And you can bet they won't be taking their main playmaker off the field well short of half time either. The Broncos Thought all they had to do was turn up.
Obviously Bennett doesn't have a SuperCoach Team, or if he has, he didn't have Parker as Captain


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Post by stryker » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 5:01 pm

TrueTiger wrote:
stryker wrote:8-0 = loss
42-16 = loss.

Same sh#t, different bucket...both games showcased our depicable defence and weak aptitudes. You are talking crap Jirskyr.
Stryker,Jirskyr is saying we are getting beat,but not as bad as the losses prior...
..and is that of some sort of comfort? You beauty!!!! Only got done by 26! We will win the spoon just to top it off....

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Post by clokan » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 6:14 pm

It does no good to a team of rookies to be held to a process they cannot follow, let them play whats in front of them, let them score some points while working on their defence. They will be much more amenable if you work within their capability and draw on their talent rather than asking them to persist with something they cannot do.

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Post by coopy » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 6:22 pm

Surprisingly - I actually think we are getting better defensively. Yes the scores and stats suggest otherwise but in previous years we seemed very soft up the middle and leaked points all over the shop.

This year our right side has been absolute rubbish but if we could fix that I wonder where we would sit? I know it's not going to happen but a decent defensiveright side centre and decent backrower would make a big difference.

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Post by Tiger In The Gong » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 6:43 pm

Cowboys game was the absolute worst game of football i have ever been to. If i could erase one game from my memory that would be it.

Yesterday showed glimpses of the squad we do have if they are coached right and the halves are allowed to play a more natural game.

Defense wise, there has been so much talk from the coach about working on the defense. Unfortunately the improvement that should be there by now just isnt there. At this rate its a year or more off.

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Post by Eddie » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 9:50 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Eddie wrote:If your referencing the Cowboys 8-0 game do you know how silly that is??

That was a QLD cup style Cowboys team that threw nothing at us. We didn't defend that well at all really. If it was the Cowboys with Thurston, Morgan, Scott and Tamou maybe you would have a point.

The defence was no better that day. It was no better against Nawcastle who bombed 3-4 tries out wide against us. They are an awful side and if we had thrown some attack at them we would have been a good chance of putting some points on them.

The defence was no better against Manly or no better against Penrith, the Titans or no better against The Raiders. All teams miles outside the top 8. We let in some really really soft tries in all those games. Today the quality of the opponents was much better hence we let in 42 instead of say 32 .Brisbane is the best team we have played in 3 months, simple as that, if you cant see that i would be surprised.

Unleashing the attack was simply giving Moses and Brooks some more freedom to play a bit of what they see. I think its a long bow to draw to say that was responsible for letting in 42 today. Rather it was a continuation of poor defence through out the season. Not better, not worse, just happened to be we played a team going 1st with a full strength line up away from home.

I think your really clutching at straws with this thread, in another desperate attempt to defend earlier performances against really poor sides (cows, knights, titans, penrith)

However it is an entirely predictable thread.
I never said the attack was responsible for letting in 42 yesterday. And I don't think it is silly to compare this game to the Cowboys match. In fact I think it is a perfect comparison: contrasting and analysing two totally different types of losses.

Personally, I'd always rather an 8-0 loss than 42-16. I don't care who you are playing, there is no way 42 points conceded can be more positive than 8 points conceded.

42 points means it wasn't even close, the opposition could score at will, a point every 2 minutes. At least in the Cowboys game, as dour and ordinary as it was, we were in it until the 80th minute. Let other sides play the exciting games for TV, I want to win!

The point I am making is I've read a fair amount of "positives" taken from yesterday's game, people comforted that we troubled Broncos for 20 minutes. People comforted to see the young kids play with a bit more room and enterprise. Perhaps some people comforted that the loss wasn't by as big a margin as they expected; that we accounted for ourselves ok considering Broncos are first and we are last.

Bollocks. Everyone expected us to lose, we lost handsomely and it is extremely disappointing to be in that situation. That is the old Tigers: teams that were beaten before they even took the field.

It's almost like people are less upset than previous weeks, perhaps because they've well and truly given up on the season now, but more upset by our close losses than the flogging we endured yesterday.

People savaged JT because he tried to temper the attack whilst getting the defence right, supporters crying out over how boring a team we had become. Supporters leaping all over him for the "spin" he was producing: that until we get the defence right, no manner of attack is going to help us.

I saw yesterday's game as the old Tigers, absolutely no step in the right direction, chancing our hand and paper-thin defence. I saw exactly the kind of performance that achieves 3 finals in 15 years. And somehow some people prefer this to a dour 8-0 loss.
Your not getting the point are you

Yesterday we played a team on top of the competition.

Cowboys game had no Thurston, Morgan, Scott, Tamou. That is like a QLD cup side. The 8-0 was just as deplorable. If we had played any football at all we could have won that game. It was a reserve grade side. How can you compare that to a star studded Broncos team on a massive role? If Thurston and company play we would have got flogged that night. If you cant se that i feel sorry for you.

Of course everyone is dissapointed with letting in 42 points. However the defence has been pretty crap consistently. The only difference yesterday was it was 40 instead of 28 or 30 because of the quality of the opponents. Which you dont seem to consider a factor in your comparisons.

Taylor has priositised defence and he has not done a good job of it. Full stop.

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Post by jirskyr » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 10:10 pm

Eddie wrote:
Your not getting the point are you

Yesterday we played a team on top of the competition.

Cowboys game had no Thurston, Morgan, Scott, Tamou. That is like a QLD cup side. The 8-0 was just as deplorable. If we had played any football at all we could have won that game. It was a reserve grade side. How can you compare that to a star studded Broncos team on a massive role? If Thurston and company play we would have got flogged that night. If you cant se that i feel sorry for you.

Of course everyone is dissapointed with letting in 42 points. However the defence has been pretty crap consistently. The only difference yesterday was it was 40 instead of 28 or 30 because of the quality of the opponents. Which you dont seem to consider a factor in your comparisons.

Taylor has priositised defence and he has not done a good job of it. Full stop.
I get it, I just don't agree. You are entitled to your opinion.

I don't care if we play 1st or 15th, a win is worth 2 points and a loss is not.

There are different grades of losses, and a 1 point last-minute loss is much more honourable than a shellacking.

8-0 to a muppet Cowboys side is terrible. So is 42-16 to top of the table. They are both terrible. But some people are happier with the big loss, just because Broncos are on top. I don't get that. In fact people keep banging on about how bad that Cowboys game was, man, people have such short memories. I've seen some absolutely tragic Tigers games in my time, on par with anything in 2015.
Last edited by jirskyr on Mon 20 Jul, 2015 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 10:13 pm

Eddie I just think there are too many issues with our defence to fix at the moment

I reckon I could name at least 7-8 major issues with our defence that oppositions sides that they can focus on to knock us over with

People knocking Taylor need to feel sorry for the poor bloke , not jump on his case

We don't have the cattle and the longer the season goes the more apparent it becomes

And the people knocking the Cowboys back up players , get on the Townsville Blackhawks site and look at the back up players they have

We'd dream to have some of these blokes in our starting 17 , let alone in Qld/NSW Cup

Glenn Hall ,Costigan ,Ben Spina ,even Moses Pangai in the centres would be an improvement

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Post by Eddie » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 10:31 pm

Happy I agree our side is sub standard. Most weeks we are deserved under dogs with the roster we have. I do feel sorry in that regard, this year was always going to be tough with the roster calls we made.

However maybe Taylor should not have been so bullish about his defensive system if there are 7-8 issues with it. He bagges previous coaches and said it was easy to fix in pre season. He said it was all about system in defence pre season, not personel, his words not mine.

Now he is scrambling for ways to say we are improving. Becuase his defensive structure is not standing up. He is trying to sugar coat it, but the fatcs are he has not improved our defence, even though he said it was easy to.

Thats my gripe with taylor, he came in cocky about it and has not delivered anything but will spin things. Do you watch his press conferences? They are painful. its like every answer he is trying to justify his methods and the teams imrpovements.

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Post by Eddie » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 10:34 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Eddie wrote:
Your not getting the point are you

Yesterday we played a team on top of the competition.

Cowboys game had no Thurston, Morgan, Scott, Tamou. That is like a QLD cup side. The 8-0 was just as deplorable. If we had played any football at all we could have won that game. It was a reserve grade side. How can you compare that to a star studded Broncos team on a massive role? If Thurston and company play we would have got flogged that night. If you cant se that i feel sorry for you.

Of course everyone is dissapointed with letting in 42 points. However the defence has been pretty crap consistently. The only difference yesterday was it was 40 instead of 28 or 30 because of the quality of the opponents. Which you dont seem to consider a factor in your comparisons.

Taylor has priositised defence and he has not done a good job of it. Full stop.
I get it, I just don't agree. You are entitled to your opinion.

I don't care if we play 1st or 15th, a win is worth 2 points and a loss is not.

There are different grades of losses, and a 1 point last-minute loss is much more honourable than a shellacking.

8-0 to a muppet Cowboys side is terrible. So is 42-16 to top of the table. They are both terrible. But some people are happier with the big loss, just because Broncos are on top. I don't get that. In fact people keep banging on about how bad that Cowboys game was, man, people have such short memories. I've seen some absolutely tragic Tigers games in my time, on par with anything in 2015.
Maybe they are more content with the loss because there is zero expectation of a win. Thats how bad we have been. Getting within 30 is a bonus of the top team. I am not saying its the right attitude, but thats how bad the Tigers have become. Some people are happy with a 26 point loss when you give up 30?

You have to expect more melt down in the forum when we have a chance to win a game against the reserve grade Cows. We could have won that game with the right game plan and thats why people were livid i feel.

I was not happy with yesterday loss. It was a soft and rubbish performance. But it was about the same standard we have come to except all season. Not better or worse.

You and try and sugar coat things all you like, but your right each win is worth 2 points and we have the least in the comp. And Taylor needs to be held partly responsible for a really poor season. Its like he is trying to justify his methods in every single answer. its painful to watch.

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 11:01 pm

Eddie wrote:Happy I agree our side is sub standard. Most weeks we are deserved under dogs with the roster we have. I do feel sorry in that regard, this year was always going to be tough with the roster calls we made.

However maybe Taylor should not have been so bullish about his defensive system if there are 7-8 issues with it. He bagges previous coaches and said it was easy to fix in pre season. He said it was all about system in defence pre season, not personel, his words not mine.

Now he is scrambling for ways to say we are improving. Becuase his defensive structure is not standing up. He is trying to sugar coat it, but the fatcs are he has not improved our defence, even though he said it was easy to.

Thats my gripe with taylor, he came in cocky about it and has not delivered anything but will spin things. Do you watch his press conferences? They are painful. its like every answer he is trying to justify his methods and the teams imrpovements.
When you have that many issues it has to be the first priority and almost the only priority

We struggle to score 20+ points against top opposition and we need to learn to defend that and if we can't we will finish seasons in the future 5-19

People got excited about our attack , I think they Broncos had the ball for two sets in the first 11 minutes of the 2nd half and turned it over on the third tackle on one set from memory

The minute the possession % balanced out we were in trouble

The other worrying issue after the 2nd last try was the amount of WT's players with cramp We had 4 players go down with cramps after they scored

His pressos don't really matter in my opinion , what he tells the flogs of the journalism trade means little , they'll just print what they want or what they think WT's supporters will read or want to hear

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Post by Eddie » Mon 20 Jul, 2015 11:24 pm

So I guess my issue is if its a priority and a focus WHY can't he improve it at all

You talk about all these issues. However is that not for the coach to figure out and improve?

He said in pre season defence was all about system, not players. And that it is his only focus. Well clearly either his system is flawed or he has not been able to coach it to the players effectively.

Taylor said all he wanted to be measured on was defence. Face facts taylor was too cocky about improving the defence in bagging previous coaches. Our defence is as bad this year as any other year if not worse. And thats disappointing considering the coaches chest beating

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Post by Tiger Watto » Tue 21 Jul, 2015 4:18 am

happy tiger wrote:Eddie I just think there are too many issues with our defence to fix at the moment

I reckon I could name at least 7-8 major issues with our defence that oppositions sides that they can focus on to knock us over with

People knocking Taylor need to feel sorry for the poor bloke , not jump on his case

We don't have the cattle and the longer the season goes the more apparent it becomes

And the people knocking the Cowboys back up players , get on the Townsville Blackhawks site and look at the back up players they have

We'd dream to have some of these blokes in our starting 17 , let alone in Qld/NSW Cup

Glenn Hall ,Costigan ,Ben Spina ,even Moses Pangai in the centres would be an improvement
Pangai the grub got a spell for headbutting... Should be barred for life!
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Post by innsaneink » Tue 21 Jul, 2015 5:30 am

Prsonally Im never happy with a loss....but I was happy to see the halves allowed to play some footy

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