Mitch Moses

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Re: Mitch Moses

Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 12:47 pm

Milky wrote:
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Milky wrote:I still think the figures tossed up are false sorry, Brooks has no manager, nor does Moses. When Brooks came off contract he asked his dad to get him a decent deal, he wants to stay at tigers and not go anywhere else. I doubt tigers would have came out and given them 600k each, maybe between the two yes.

Moses and Brooks appear very loyal to WTs and more importantly to their team mates. I find it hard to believe some of our supporters immediately believe these young men would be disloyal to a club which has nutured them from a young age via the mighty Balmain Tigers.
Paws once again you jump to conclusions, I at no stage mentioned anything about the kids being disloyal to the WTs, it was about the contracts if those reports were true,and the possible ramifications if those facts were right( and as I said , I've seen no retractions or denials anywhere about them.
And why would you think that they would be disloyal to look elsewhere if they had the chance at that time.
They have a finite time to make as much as they can from the game, and as long as they have fulfilled their end of their contract , they like any players, have to do what's best for them, clubs show little loyalty once they don't want someone, players have to look at their future. No one else will
But if you have seen a denial of those reports , please tell us where.
You are the one claiming to have facts, you prove him wrong with your "reports", not having a dig but i am intersested.
milky,
I'm not claiming anything , Simply saying what was in the Sydney Morning Herald And was posted in an earlier thread by Ricksen, . , And what was also spoken about on a Fox sports show, and on radio.
I know that a lot here, who chose not to believe anything in the press that they don't agree with . But its there in black and white . I'm also pointing out that there have been no denials from the club or anyone else. ( they wouldn't give any details anyway , and rightly so) but I'm sure that if the report was wrong that they would at least come out and say it was wrong , as they did when they back flipped on what Marina said in another newspaper( the Australian, I think)about not being able to recruit players.
It's easy for any of us to say, "that's 100% wrong," because we don't like something,
But wanting something to be wrong , doesn't make it wrong,

I don't know myself if it's right or not, but obviously neither does any of us.
After seeing other things that we have done in the not too distant past with contracts and Backloading etc. I would not be a bit surprised if it was spot on.
I'm just as interested to find out if it's right as you are
I'm simply asking Russ and Paws, what information they have that means it's not an accurate report .they must have something pretty tangible to be so adamant that it's not true.
Or is that just wishful thinking.
Last edited by goldcoast tiger on Tue 18 Aug, 2015 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 1:32 pm

Magic ,
the only possible reason that I can see for this if it's true, is that Mayer or whoever did their contracts, backloaded them until 2017, ( knowing what was coming with our cap mess) and also gave them the option. Either way , we have set ourselves for possible problems at that time. (Before all the deniers start getting flustered, I said , possible problems.)
For what it's worth, they both become free agents on November 1st

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Unread post by Fumbles » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 2:54 pm

Not worth 600k not even 300k. Biggest con job I have ever seen. Paid top dollar for two average players and happy to let our best player walk. No wonder Grant Mayer was sacked.

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Unread post by Telltails » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 3:18 pm

Started off as a positive thread on Moses ....how did it get here???

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Unread post by cktiger » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 4:07 pm

Fumbles wrote:Not worth 600k not even 300k. Biggest con job I have ever seen. Paid top dollar for two average players and happy to let our best player walk. No wonder Grant Mayer was sacked.

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Last time I looked we still had all our rep players.
We are talking a year and a half rom now - if they remain injury free in first grade and keep developing who's to say they won't be worth that?
Halves demand the big money - that's just the way it is.


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Unread post by Spartan117 » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 4:39 pm

Stil cheaper than DCE and Foran at the moment. I expect them to get to this level of Quality in a few short years

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Unread post by stevetiger » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 6:22 pm

Spartan117 wrote:Stil cheaper than DCE and Foran at the moment. I expect them to get to this level of Quality in a few short years
I'd love to see that. They are a long way off being at that level and I think they are really good prospects.

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Unread post by Russell » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 7:26 pm

I'm not suggesting those figures were not mentioned by Ms Go or anyone else.

However I am suggesting that the figures are incorrect.

No one in their right mind would offer a contract paying Moses, Brooks and Siro a sum of $600,000 each fro 2017 onwards.

If someone in the club did do this they need to be committed to the lunatic asylum.

They will be worth it - but not now.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 7:58 pm

Russell wrote:I'm not suggesting those figures were not mentioned by Ms Go or anyone else.

However I am suggesting that the figures are incorrect.

No one in their right mind would offer a contract paying Moses, Brooks and Siro a sum of $600,000 each fro 2017 onwards.

If someone in the club did do this they need to be committed to the lunatic asylum.

They will be worth it - but not now.
Russ
, I agree with you on the general line of your post, but just so it's clear,
The report that I saw ( and it's still there on the forum), never said , that Marina said it, as far as I could see The journo doing the article stated that, but the statements have never been denied , or the facts challenged by anyone who would know whether they were accurate or not. Also , just repeating, Sirros name wasn't mentioned at all.
And it only said 2017. , nothing about any other year
Not being picky, just trying to be accurate.

Like you , my thoughts were , how in the hell could anyone leave the club in such a vulnerable position,
If it's true then I hope our contracts are better in the future.
And I just want to repeat, this is not a critism in any way of any players,
They'd have to be nuts not to take a contract like this if it was put in front of them.

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Unread post by Russell » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 8:11 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Russell wrote:I'm not suggesting those figures were not mentioned by Ms Go or anyone else.

However I am suggesting that the figures are incorrect.

No one in their right mind would offer a contract paying Moses, Brooks and Siro a sum of $600,000 each fro 2017 onwards.

If someone in the club did do this they need to be committed to the lunatic asylum.

They will be worth it - but not now.
Russ
, I agree with you on the general line of your post, but just so it's clear,
The report that I saw ( and it's still there on the forum), never said , that Marina said it, as far as I could see The journo doing the article stated that, but the statements have never been denied , or the facts challenged by anyone who would know whether they were accurate or not. Also , just repeating, Sirros name wasn't mentioned at all.
And it only said 2017. , nothing about any other year
Not being picky, just trying to be accurate.

Like you , my thoughts were , how in the hell could anyone leave the club in such a vulnerable position,
If it's true then I hope our contracts are better in the future.
And I just want to repeat, this is not a critism in any way of any players,
They'd have to be nuts not to take a contract like this if it was put in front of them.
Thanks GT - not doubting the comments.
Not having a go at the players either.

Can't see how anyone in their right mind would have signed a player (in their NRL infancy) for that kind of money. There is no greater fan of these 3 players than me (I know you said Siro is not in it - a Forumer did however) - If the person is known ( I am sure it is - that structured the contract) and it was for that amount of money - they should be sacked immediately.

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Unread post by Magpie Magic » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 9:34 pm

I dunno.
I think they are good prospects but that's it. If they were DCE And Foran a few years ago in 2011 we would be in top 8 like Manly we're back then. I watched Lamb for Wests at 18 and Alexander same age guide Wests to nearly a premiership in 80 they finished 3rd and Alexander in 85 guided Penrith to their first ever top 5. Our own benji at 20 helped us win it.
But these guys don't look that calibre don't expect them to be anymore than good 1st graders and that's fine.

Problem is and easily seen as soon as Farah is off that the team looks lost. So whist I expect them to be good club halves in the future we have pinned all our hopes on these two we have no halves back up and whilst I expect their loyalty " coming from they mighty Balmain Tigers" it is my no means contractually certain.

So the point is this is not a way to run an NRL club. These guys have played every game but we are fighting to avoid spoon and with experience lost next year and no new signings that's a worry, hardly something to attract season ticket holders or sponsors.

It's all or nothing with them.
It's a big risk.

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Unread post by GNR4LIFE » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 9:43 pm

Magpie Magic wrote:I dunno.
I think they are good prospects but that's it. If they were DCE And Foran a few years ago in 2011 we would be in top 8 like Manly we're back then. I watched Lamb for Wests at 18 and Alexander same age guide Wests to nearly a premiership in 80 they finished 3rd and Alexander in 85 guided Penrith to their first ever top 5. Our own benji at 20 helped us win it.
But these guys don't look that calibre don't expect them to be anymore than good 1st graders and that's fine.

Problem is and easily seen as soon as Farah is off that the team looks lost. So whist I expect them to be good club halves in the future we have pinned all our hopes on these two we have no halves back up and whilst I expect their loyalty " coming from they mighty Balmain Tigers" it is my no means contractually certain.

So the point is this is not a way to run an NRL club. These guys have played every game but we are fighting to avoid spoon and with experience lost next year and no new signings that's a worry, hardly something to attract season ticket holders or sponsors.

It's all or nothing with them.
It's a big risk.
I don't see either of them being superstars either. Seasoned first graders though is more than likely. As you said, they've shown potential, but just not the flat out child prodigy factor that guys like you mentioned had at such a young age.

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Unread post by tsjonathan » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 10:11 pm

Magpie Magic wrote:I dunno.
I think they are good prospects but that's it. If they were DCE And Foran a few years ago in 2011 we would be in top 8 like Manly we're back then. I watched Lamb for Wests at 18 and Alexander same age guide Wests to nearly a premiership in 80 they finished 3rd and Alexander in 85 guided Penrith to their first ever top 5. Our own benji at 20 helped us win it.
But these guys don't look that calibre don't expect them to be anymore than good 1st graders and that's fine.

So the point is this is not a way to run an NRL club. These guys have played every game but we are fighting to avoid spoon and with experience lost next year and no new signings that's a worry, hardly something to attract season ticket holders or sponsors.

It's all or nothing with them.
It's a big risk.
**Comparing 2015 Wests tigers team with 2011 Manly Sea Eagles priemiership winning team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Manl ... les_season):

Matt Ballin (Origin)
Daly Cherry-Evans
Kieran Foran
Jamie Lyon (Origin)
Anthony Watmough (Origin)
Glenn Stewart (origin)
Brent Kite (Origin)
Steve Matai (Intenational)
Michael Robertson --
Brett Stewart (Origin)
William Hopoate (Origin)
Joe Galuvao (International)
Jason King (Origin)
Michael Oldfield --
David Williams (origin)
George Rose --
Tony Williams (Origin)
Jamie Buhrer (origin)
Dean Whare (international)
Darcy Lussick --
Coach: Des Hasler

**Benji came through with the wests side that won ball the previous year: Fulton; Gibbs etc and had other juniors coming through like Farah and Halatau whilst having a compliment stars like Prince and Hodgo. Not to mention experience like Skando and O'Neil.

**Have you comapred any other 20 year olds in the NRL to Greg Alexander and seen how they measure up?

**Last point there are quite a lot of players who didn't do much in their first season of NRL. James Tedesco comes to mind and he was criticized heavily on this forum as I remember very clearly and how has he turned out this year?


Just trying to put things in perspective, we won't know how they'll turn out. It's too early. I still think its better than the halves we've had since 2007 on wards with all the chopping and changing. All those years with Farah, Benji, Fulton, Lui, Morris et al in the halves.

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Unread post by Magpie Magic » Tue 18 Aug, 2015 10:23 pm

tsjonathan wrote:
Magpie Magic wrote:I dunno.
I think they are good prospects but that's it. If they were DCE And Foran a few years ago in 2011 we would be in top 8 like Manly we're back then. I watched Lamb for Wests at 18 and Alexander same age guide Wests to nearly a premiership in 80 they finished 3rd and Alexander in 85 guided Penrith to their first ever top 5. Our own benji at 20 helped us win it.
But these guys don't look that calibre don't expect them to be anymore than good 1st graders and that's fine.

So the point is this is not a way to run an NRL club. These guys have played every game but we are fighting to avoid spoon and with experience lost next year and no new signings that's a worry, hardly something to attract season ticket holders or sponsors.

It's all or nothing with them.
It's a big risk.
**Comparing 2015 Wests tigers team with 2011 Manly Sea Eagles priemiership winning team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Manl ... les_season):

Matt Ballin
Daly Cherry-Evans
Kieran Foran
Jamie Lyon
Anthony Watmough
Glenn Stewart
Brent Kite
Steve Matai
Michael Robertson
Brett Stewart
William Hopoate
Joe Galuvao
Jason King
Michael Oldfield
David Williams
George Rose
Tony Williams
Jamie Buhrer
Dean Whare
Darcy Lussick
Coach: Des Hasler

**Benji came through with the wests side that won ball the previous year: Fulton; Gibbs etc and had other juniors coming through like Farah and Halatau whilst having a compliment stars like Prince and Hodgo. Not to mention experience like Skando and O'Neil.

**Have you comapred any other 20 year olds in the NRL to Greg Alexander and seen how they measure up?

**Last point there are quite a lot of players who didn't do much in their first season of NRL. James Tedesco comes to mind and he was criticized heavily on this forum as I remember very clearly and how has he turned out this year?


Just trying to put things in perspective, we won't know how they'll turn out. It's too early. I still think its better than the halves we've had since 2007 on wards with all the chopping and changing. All those years with Farah, Benji, Fulton, Lui, Morris et al in the halves.
Lamb and Alexander were 18 and you should've seen them organising team.
Agree with you about our 2005 side but Benji was on ice skates hoping around running past Australian test centres in preliminary finals and setting up 110m GF tries like a good 80s movie.

Anyways agree with all you said and that's why we should have a plan B and mix them in with experience and we should not have blooded them at same Time IMO .

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Unread post by jirskyr » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 12:19 pm

Magpie Magic wrote: Lamb and Alexander were 18 and you should've seen them organising team.
Agree with you about our 2005 side but Benji was on ice skates hoping around running past Australian test centres in preliminary finals and setting up 110m GF tries like a good 80s movie.

Anyways agree with all you said and that's why we should have a plan B and mix them in with experience and we should not have blooded them at same Time IMO .
I dunno Magpie, you are mostly comparing Brooks and Moses playing professional footy in 2014-15 vs the game 30+ years ago.

Teams are much more professional now, the competition is much more level and young players get ever more targeted by big fit forwards. Not only that, but consider the rule changes - without looking at stats I am sure Lamb and Alexander didn't do as much tackling as these young guys. You also had non-returning interchanges back then. Heck they didn't even go to 10m defending rule until 1993.

And by cherry-picking Lamb, Alexander, Benji... I mean, these are some of the game's greats. If Brooks and Moses become very good without being all-time greats, I'd still be happy with it.

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Unread post by Magpie Magic » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 12:51 pm

Halves in the game are very ordinary versus 20-30 years ago.
The players are bigger fitter but no way better than then.
Most can't even throw a decent pass.
When i first saw Foran i thought gee this guys straight out of the 70s every club had them. He would have been considered just average back then. Had to cop stiff arms and work then too not train every day and sit round cafes.
When Taylor hit the scene in 90 he was 20 pretty average throwing intercepts but could nail goals and FGs. In 91 at 21 he played behind good pack and we made top 5 nothing special but he had a good kicking game. Still don't know where our will come from.
Our boys would have been in U23s then.
Anyway can come good but don't like what i see when Farah is off.
And as Moses gains confidence Brooks goes into his shell and he is the one who must organise team Moses won't.
We can't afford another year like this.
So they will need to learn quickly.

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