Gus' idea about concentrating on South West Sydney

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GNR4LIFE
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Re: Gus' idea about concentrating on South West Sydney

Unread post by GNR4LIFE » Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:22 am

gallagher wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:15 am
Harvey wrote:
Mon 04 Sep, 2017 8:26 pm
I live near ctown and go to games there. Go to ANZ ad that is easy enough to get to. Allianz is also not bad. Leichhardt is a pain in terms of public transport but Parramatta is terrible to get to from anywhere other than the west or central Sydney
Don't they have direct services from cambo to parra? It's a bit of a walk from the station but the light rail is being built.
Not a direct service. You'd change at Merrylands.


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Unread post by gallagher » Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:35 am

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:22 am
gallagher wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:15 am
Harvey wrote:
Mon 04 Sep, 2017 8:26 pm
I live near ctown and go to games there. Go to ANZ ad that is easy enough to get to. Allianz is also not bad. Leichhardt is a pain in terms of public transport but Parramatta is terrible to get to from anywhere other than the west or central Sydney
Don't they have direct services from cambo to parra? It's a bit of a walk from the station but the light rail is being built.
Not a direct service. You'd change at Merrylands.
That's pretty crap. they would need to have direct trains on match day.
Its crazy that youl have to change at Lidcombe for ANZ.

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Unread post by Illek » Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:48 am

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:22 am
gallagher wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:15 am
Harvey wrote:
Mon 04 Sep, 2017 8:26 pm
I live near ctown and go to games there. Go to ANZ ad that is easy enough to get to. Allianz is also not bad. Leichhardt is a pain in terms of public transport but Parramatta is terrible to get to from anywhere other than the west or central Sydney
Don't they have direct services from cambo to parra? It's a bit of a walk from the station but the light rail is being built.
Not a direct service. You'd change at Merrylands.
There is a direct service on weekdays. just not that often.

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Unread post by jirskyr » Tue 05 Sep, 2017 10:08 am

Hard for Tigers to have any specific long-term plans at this time, given that the govt hasn't even decided how to spend their stadium money.

A couple of things however are clear at this time and are unlikely to change any time soon:
1) Tigers usually average around 13-15K crowds over a season and most of these are losing seasons. CSS and LO can easily accommodate these numbers and are better venues for smaller crowds.

2) Tigers crowds will increase with success. In these situations, you would need to have Sydney derbies at the larger venues. We've already seen what happens if Tigers play someone like Rabbits where both clubs are in finals contention. That being said, overall crowds still rarely top 20K.

3) As of 2017 only one club - Broncos obviously - averages more than 20K per game despite several clubs having over or close to 20K members.

4) If not for the financial incentives to play at Homebush or SFS (or some new iteration of these venues), we wouldn't play there regularly. But facilities, sponsorship, corporate boxes etc. - these are something CSS and LO will never match the primary stadia.

5) Fans do appear to enjoy suburban grounds, despite the decreased facilities.

6) Our grounds are comparatively well serviced by public transport - the Leichhardt North LR at LO and Leumeah station at CSS.

7) If you increase the frequency of local games, you do risk decreasing the "boutique" nature of these matches. I've been going to Leichhardt for a long time, but people have really only been banging on about the "beauty" of the venue since Balmain merged and the # of games decreased. Nostalgia kicks in for old-time Sunday afternoon football in the sun, but if Tigers played there every 2nd home game, such a mood might wane.

8) There are only ever more supporters who aren't affiliated with Wests or Balmain, and these folks might not have the same emotional investment in LO or CSS in the future years.

9) There is limited money long-term for suburban grounds, and once the govt spends their current funds, there might be a time limit on how long these grounds are viable.

10) NRL wants to grow crowds but not at the expense of TV revenues. They have succeeded in growing memberships across the clubs, and a push for game-day attendances might be a new game-wide strategy. But as long as ratings are high and someone forks out a billion dollars for TV rights, the crowds remain the clubs' primary concern but not the NRL's.

11) The irony is that despite the "concern" about 2017 crowds, the average crowds of the last 10 years are at all-time highs. Therefore an increase in the live coverage of matches (and now simulcasted on pay TV and mobile phones) has not obliterated the crowds. All-time average crowds since 1957 is 13K.

12) There is likely a positive influence of Sydney's growing population that has offset potential downward trends in crowds, but I have never seen that analysed anywhere. If you were to plot population against crowd sizes there would be some sort of correlation (general increase in average crowds along with increase in population), but you should also then factor in other things wrt population: location, born locally or overseas, history with NRL (i.e. bringing in new fans vs those whose families are already involved), competition and growth in other codes, disposable income levels, average work hours etc.

13) The Broncos and Melbourne have certainly pushed up the NRL crowd averages, but that isn't cheating, it's growing the game. So in reality the reasons for increase in crowds are all ok, so long as you can at least sustain them.
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Unread post by diedpretty » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 11:50 am

Telltails wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 7:32 am
Campbelltown is a long way from Wests Ashfield while they back the club financially basing themselves in Campbelltown is not a good move for the club. Part of a clubs function is its links to the community. Unless they up and move an already thriving establishment elsewhere, cant see them supporting a base at Campbelltown.
Club functions would be the only that is a problem being based at Campbelltown. Wests Ashfield existence doesn't depend on WT members. Maybe they need to come to some agreement with the Campbelltown Club.


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Unread post by colmcd » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 1:03 pm

gallagher wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:15 am
Harvey wrote:
Mon 04 Sep, 2017 8:26 pm
I live near ctown and go to games there. Go to ANZ ad that is easy enough to get to. Allianz is also not bad. Leichhardt is a pain in terms of public transport but Parramatta is terrible to get to from anywhere other than the west or central Sydney
Don't they have direct services from cambo to parra? It's a bit of a walk from the station but the light rail is being built.
Lets scrap that idea.

Yes we can catch the train from Campbelltown or Newtown/Lidcombe/whereever. No we are not going to adopt the Eels stadium and become a second class supporter beneath their Crechin/Sterlo/Hindmarsh monuments. Homebush is easier for everyone and even then we should scrap that idea. Why go further out.

We need a home ground and we can claim Ctown or Leichheardt. Claim, stake and mark our territory. You come to our ground you will worship Brett Hodges, Tommy R, Benny Elias/Roach/Sironin/whoever was good enough to wear our jersey and do us proud. Our ground, our turf our rules our team!

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Unread post by PrattenParkMagpie » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 1:21 pm

Illek wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:48 am
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:22 am
gallagher wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:15 am
Harvey wrote:
Mon 04 Sep, 2017 8:26 pm
I live near ctown and go to games there. Go to ANZ ad that is easy enough to get to. Allianz is also not bad. Leichhardt is a pain in terms of public transport but Parramatta is terrible to get to from anywhere other than the west or central Sydney
Don't they have direct services from cambo to parra? It's a bit of a walk from the station but the light rail is being built.
Not a direct service. You'd change at Merrylands.
There is a direct service on weekdays. just not that often.
New rail timetable before next season, many ways of getting to games by train will change, some dramatically.

As I understand it there will be no direct services from Campbelltown to Lidcombe, will either need to change at Glenfield and possibly Parramatta or go via East Hills and Airport and change at Central
Bring back Dr Pepper and Hazelnut Rolls

Don’t you ever let a chance go by, O Claws, don’t you ever let a chance go by....

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Unread post by oldprop » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 2:16 pm

colmcd wrote:
Wed 06 Sep, 2017 1:03 pm
gallagher wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:15 am
Harvey wrote:
Mon 04 Sep, 2017 8:26 pm
I live near ctown and go to games there. Go to ANZ ad that is easy enough to get to. Allianz is also not bad. Leichhardt is a pain in terms of public transport but Parramatta is terrible to get to from anywhere other than the west or central Sydney
Don't they have direct services from cambo to parra? It's a bit of a walk from the station but the light rail is being built.
Lets scrap that idea.

Yes we can catch the train from Campbelltown or Newtown/Lidcombe/whereever. No we are not going to adopt the Eels stadium and become a second class supporter beneath their Crechin/Sterlo/Hindmarsh monuments. Homebush is easier for everyone and even then we should scrap that idea. Why go further out.

We need a home ground and we can claim Ctown or Leichheardt. Claim, stake and mark our territory. You come to our ground you will worship Brett Hodges, Tommy R, Benny Elias/Roach/Sironin/whoever was good enough to wear our jersey and do us proud. Our ground, our turf our rules our team!
That's beautiful colmcd. Well said.
Need more props.

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Unread post by gallagher » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 2:25 pm

colmcd wrote:
Wed 06 Sep, 2017 1:03 pm
gallagher wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:15 am
Harvey wrote:
Mon 04 Sep, 2017 8:26 pm
I live near ctown and go to games there. Go to ANZ ad that is easy enough to get to. Allianz is also not bad. Leichhardt is a pain in terms of public transport but Parramatta is terrible to get to from anywhere other than the west or central Sydney
Don't they have direct services from cambo to parra? It's a bit of a walk from the station but the light rail is being built.
Lets scrap that idea.

Yes we can catch the train from Campbelltown or Newtown/Lidcombe/whereever. No we are not going to adopt the Eels stadium and become a second class supporter beneath their Crechin/Sterlo/Hindmarsh monuments. Homebush is easier for everyone and even then we should scrap that idea. Why go further out.

We need a home ground and we can claim Ctown or Leichheardt. Claim, stake and mark our territory. You come to our ground you will worship Brett Hodges, Tommy R, Benny Elias/Roach/Sironin/whoever was good enough to wear our jersey and do us proud. Our ground, our turf our rules our team!
And continue to just make up the numbers. May aswell scrap the club.

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Unread post by Silentio » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 4:10 pm

Everyone wants the club to play at the closest possible ground (including me), but that's not necessarily best for the club.

It's also worth remembering that ticket sales are only one source of revenue. There are also some hefty costs to consider.

Assuming the figures I have are correct, the club currently makes the most from playing at ANZ with guaranteed ticket revenue, minimal running costs, much higher corporate revenue than LO or Ctown and ok merchandise sales.

Ctown and LO face the challenge of high game day costs and lower corporate revenue. A low turnout makes things way worse.

I'd rather see the side winning and the club doing what's best rather than push my own personal agenda or preference.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 4:30 pm

timmings01 wrote:
Sun 25 Jun, 2017 11:52 am
Seriously does everyone who isn't associated with Tigers have to have an agenda?
SSSHHH. There's a bug under every bed, and danger everywhere
We must be careful :D

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Unread post by Harvey » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 4:53 pm

gallagher wrote:
Wed 06 Sep, 2017 2:25 pm
colmcd wrote:
Wed 06 Sep, 2017 1:03 pm
gallagher wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:15 am
Harvey wrote:
Mon 04 Sep, 2017 8:26 pm
I live near ctown and go to games there. Go to ANZ ad that is easy enough to get to. Allianz is also not bad. Leichhardt is a pain in terms of public transport but Parramatta is terrible to get to from anywhere other than the west or central Sydney
Don't they have direct services from cambo to parra? It's a bit of a walk from the station but the light rail is being built.
Lets scrap that idea.

Yes we can catch the train from Campbelltown or Newtown/Lidcombe/whereever. No we are not going to adopt the Eels stadium and become a second class supporter beneath their Crechin/Sterlo/Hindmarsh monuments. Homebush is easier for everyone and even then we should scrap that idea. Why go further out.

We need a home ground and we can claim Ctown or Leichheardt. Claim, stake and mark our territory. You come to our ground you will worship Brett Hodges, Tommy R, Benny Elias/Roach/Sironin/whoever was good enough to wear our jersey and do us proud. Our ground, our turf our rules our team!
And continue to just make up the numbers. May aswell scrap the club.
I thought given our history that our fans would have a bit more resilience than that

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Unread post by Tiger Steve » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 6:15 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 10:08 am
Hard for Tigers to have any specific long-term plans at this time, given that the govt hasn't even decided how to spend their stadium money.

A couple of things however are clear at this time and are unlikely to change any time soon:
1) Tigers usually average around 13-15K crowds over a season and most of these are losing seasons. CSS and LO can easily accommodate these numbers and are better venues for smaller crowds.

2) Tigers crowds will increase with success. In these situations, you would need to have Sydney derbies at the larger venues. We've already seen what happens if Tigers play someone like Rabbits where both clubs are in finals contention. That being said, overall crowds still rarely top 20K.

3) As of 2017 only one club - Broncos obviously - averages more than 20K per game despite several clubs having over or close to 20K members.

4) If not for the financial incentives to play at Homebush or SFS (or some new iteration of these venues), we wouldn't play there regularly. But facilities, sponsorship, corporate boxes etc. - these are something CSS and LO will never match the primary stadia.

5) Fans do appear to enjoy suburban grounds, despite the decreased facilities.

6) Our grounds are comparatively well serviced by public transport - the Leichhardt North LR at LO and Leumeah station at CSS.

7) If you increase the frequency of local games, you do risk decreasing the "boutique" nature of these matches. I've been going to Leichhardt for a long time, but people have really only been banging on about the "beauty" of the venue since Balmain merged and the # of games decreased. Nostalgia kicks in for old-time Sunday afternoon football in the sun, but if Tigers played there every 2nd home game, such a mood might wane.

8) There are only ever more supporters who aren't affiliated with Wests or Balmain, and these folks might not have the same emotional investment in LO or CSS in the future years.

9) There is limited money long-term for suburban grounds, and once the govt spends their current funds, there might be a time limit on how long these grounds are viable.

10) NRL wants to grow crowds but not at the expense of TV revenues. They have succeeded in growing memberships across the clubs, and a push for game-day attendances might be a new game-wide strategy. But as long as ratings are high and someone forks out a billion dollars for TV rights, the crowds remain the clubs' primary concern but not the NRL's.

11) The irony is that despite the "concern" about 2017 crowds, the average crowds of the last 10 years are at all-time highs. Therefore an increase in the live coverage of matches (and now simulcasted on pay TV and mobile phones) has not obliterated the crowds. All-time average crowds since 1957 is 13K.

12) There is likely a positive influence of Sydney's growing population that has offset potential downward trends in crowds, but I have never seen that analysed anywhere. If you were to plot population against crowd sizes there would be some sort of correlation (general increase in average crowds along with increase in population), but you should also then factor in other things wrt population: location, born locally or overseas, history with NRL (i.e. bringing in new fans vs those whose families are already involved), competition and growth in other codes, disposable income levels, average work hours etc.

13) The Broncos and Melbourne have certainly pushed up the NRL crowd averages, but that isn't cheating, it's growing the game. So in reality the reasons for increase in crowds are all ok, so long as you can at least sustain them.

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Great post. Thanks

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Unread post by gallagher » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 6:16 pm

Harvey wrote:
Wed 06 Sep, 2017 4:53 pm
gallagher wrote:
Wed 06 Sep, 2017 2:25 pm
colmcd wrote:
Wed 06 Sep, 2017 1:03 pm
gallagher wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:15 am


Don't they have direct services from cambo to parra? It's a bit of a walk from the station but the light rail is being built.
Lets scrap that idea.

Yes we can catch the train from Campbelltown or Newtown/Lidcombe/whereever. No we are not going to adopt the Eels stadium and become a second class supporter beneath their Crechin/Sterlo/Hindmarsh monuments. Homebush is easier for everyone and even then we should scrap that idea. Why go further out.

We need a home ground and we can claim Ctown or Leichheardt. Claim, stake and mark our territory. You come to our ground you will worship Brett Hodges, Tommy R, Benny Elias/Roach/Sironin/whoever was good enough to wear our jersey and do us proud. Our ground, our turf our rules our team!
And continue to just make up the numbers. May aswell scrap the club.
I thought given our history that our fans would have a bit more resilience than that
I don't follow Harvey.

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Unread post by Tiger Steve » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 6:17 pm

colmcd wrote:
Wed 06 Sep, 2017 1:03 pm
gallagher wrote:
Tue 05 Sep, 2017 9:15 am
Harvey wrote:
Mon 04 Sep, 2017 8:26 pm
I live near ctown and go to games there. Go to ANZ ad that is easy enough to get to. Allianz is also not bad. Leichhardt is a pain in terms of public transport but Parramatta is terrible to get to from anywhere other than the west or central Sydney
Don't they have direct services from cambo to parra? It's a bit of a walk from the station but the light rail is being built.
Lets scrap that idea.

Yes we can catch the train from Campbelltown or Newtown/Lidcombe/whereever. No we are not going to adopt the Eels stadium and become a second class supporter beneath their Crechin/Sterlo/Hindmarsh monuments. Homebush is easier for everyone and even then we should scrap that idea. Why go further out.

We need a home ground and we can claim Ctown or Leichheardt. Claim, stake and mark our territory. You come to our ground you will worship Brett Hodges, Tommy R, Benny Elias/Roach/Sironin/whoever was good enough to wear our jersey and do us proud. Our ground, our turf our rules our team!
And our debt. Love suburban grounds but the future is in stadiums

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