Player fire sale just weeks away

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Pawsandclaws
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Re: Player fire sale just weeks away

Unread post by Pawsandclaws » Sat 12 Aug, 2017 11:23 am

The Queen wrote:
Sat 12 Aug, 2017 10:42 am
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sat 12 Aug, 2017 8:50 am
We have the Raiders announcing the extension of Croker and shortly Whitehead. I assume these will not be registered by the NRL if the Raiders are not cap compliant?
In January the NRL told the clubs plan for 9.2 million if clubs have already spent that what gives them the right to spend more

But in saying that before January the NRL said it would be about 10 million if a club had spent the 10 million before January then I have no trouble with the club keeping the players the fault lays with the NRL but most if not all clubs have spent on players after January
The NRL need to consider that players signed or extended after January above the 9.2m would have become available to clubs with weaker rosters had it not been for this behaviour.


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Unread post by TYGA » Sat 12 Aug, 2017 2:44 pm

supercoach wrote:
Sat 12 Aug, 2017 7:29 am
TYGA wrote:
Fri 11 Aug, 2017 10:21 pm
Its an interesting scenario from what I hear.
The clubs that seek the cap raised are working with the RLPA as they have the same interest. All clubs also want 130 percent of the salary cap without question.
The issue is the NRL can't afford more as they have spent like drunkard sailors. Their long term bankers I believe CBA reportedly knocked them back for a bank loan in recent days.
The chook that laid the golden egg is about to get its head cut off by a lot of self interested clubs and players. You only have to look at rugby, a few years ago the safe was full of money and they were in great shape, a few years on they are on the brink of going under on the back of some really bad calls by the people in charge. The same thing will happen to the NRL, the game is going backwards and one of the reasons is the greed and self interest that is rife in some sections of the NRL
If the NRL were smart they would ageee to a percentage of revenue model. At the next TV deal they should schedule all games in the interest of the NRL so the competition is fair and higher quality. They will get less from the TV deal therefore the players will end up with less. Keep the same level of grass roots funding and the game will be better off.

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Unread post by Furious1 » Sat 12 Aug, 2017 5:14 pm

The Queen wrote:
Sat 12 Aug, 2017 10:42 am
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sat 12 Aug, 2017 8:50 am
We have the Raiders announcing the extension of Croker and shortly Whitehead. I assume these will not be registered by the NRL if the Raiders are not cap compliant?
In January the NRL told the clubs plan for 9.2 million if clubs have already spent that what gives them the right to spend more

But in saying that before January the NRL said it would be about 10 million if a club had spent the 10 million before January then I have no trouble with the club keeping the players the fault lays with the NRL but most if not all clubs have spent on players after January
I don't know about that. I think a lot of clubs are over the salary cap in the future all the time. The issue is how much which is not normally that significant, therefore allowing 1 player of insignicance to be moved on with minimal fuss. This time they have been caught out badly in back ended deals ( the bulldogs) and should rightly pay the price. $800k short of what the Dogs were expecting the cap to be is still not enough to fit Foran and Woods, only one of them and that's with still moving on others.

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Unread post by goldcoast tiger » Sat 12 Aug, 2017 5:34 pm

TYGA wrote:
Fri 11 Aug, 2017 10:21 pm
Its an interesting scenario from what I hear.
The clubs that seek the cap raised are working with the RLPA as they have the same interest. All clubs also want 130 percent of the salary cap without question.
The issue is the NRL can't afford more as they have spent like drunkard sailors. Their long term bankers I believe CBA reportedly knocked them back for a bank loan in recent days.
It's right about the Nrl spending like there's no tomorrow, just like the Cricket hierarchy.
I'd rather see the clubs get it thanthe NRL waste it.
Also like the Cricket, they could cut half of the overpaid, under worked Admin in the Nrl.
That'd be a good start

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Unread post by Pawsandclaws » Sun 13 Aug, 2017 8:06 am

How the Canterbury Bulldogs threw their salary cap into disarray with reckless spending

Michael Carayannis, Exclusive, The Sunday Telegraph
August 13, 2017 6:00am

IT is the multimillion-dollar spending spree which has left Canterbury’s salary cap in disarray with their failure to heed multiple warnings by the NRL leaving the game’s governing body unsympathetic to their plight.

It could also cost the club star recruits Kieran Foran and Aaron Woods, whose contracts are yet to be fully ratified by the NRL.

The Sunday Telegraph can reveal the Bulldogs have been in constant discussions with the NRL about strategies surrounding their salary cap dilemma with fears they could have overspent by up to $1 million.

But the NRL has little sympathy for the Bulldogs who have blatantly disregarded a stack of warnings to curb their spending spree.

Canterbury’s poor on-field performances have not helped with the players they were hoping to move on now becoming less attractive.

Rival clubs are also aware of the Bulldogs overspending, so they hope they can capitalise by securing a bargain buy.

On March 30 and again on April 20, the NRL gave all club CEOs salary cap guidance of $9.14 million for 2018 — this despite suggestions the cap could be as high as $10 million at the end of last year.

Since these warning the Bulldogs have added almost $2 million worth of talent after signing Woods (approximately $700,000), Foran ($900,000) and Fa’amanu Brown ($150,000).

The trio were announced in May. Negotiations with Foran and Woods were well advanced when the NRL shocked clubs with their original salary cap offer of $8.3 million.

That same month the Bulldogs also offered contract extensions to William Hopoate ($500,000), Marcelo Montoya ($100,000), Kerrod Holland ($150,000), Reimis Smith ($100,000) before re-signing Danny Fualalo ($100,000) and Adam Elliott ($150,000) in June.

It is understood some of these players are on back-ended contracts.

The Bulldogs declined to comment on Saturday.

Woods and Foran have only been provisionally registered by the NRL’s salary cap auditors after the Bulldogs provided the NRL with a plan to be under the proposed salary cap by round one.

There is no guarantee the contracts of Woods or Foran will be fully registered by the NRL — meaning they may not be free to turn out for their new club next year.

The NRL required a salary cap plan for the duo to be provisionally registered, which included off-loading a host of players, but poor form coupled with rivals knowing Canterbury must shed players has made the task of moving players on more difficult.

While the Raiders are another club which has overshot the NRL’s proposed salary cap their only new arrival for 2018 is Warriors rookie Erin Clark, who joined the club midway through this season.

The squeeze on the Bulldogs cap comes with the likes of Greg Eastwood and James Graham receiving big pay rises next year because of back ended deals.

While the Bulldogs have added internationals Woods and Foran, they have shed just one contracted player — prop Sam Kasiano who will join Melbourne.

But even then it is understood the Bulldogs will contribute some of Kasiano’s Storm wage.

Favourite son Josh Reynolds will depart the club for the Tigers but he was not contracted beyond this season while hooker Michael Lichaa won’t be retained.

On June 15 there was a meeting of club chief executive’s and chair people where the Bulldogs proposed introducing a “soft” cap for next year while the prospect of “grandfathering” payments has also been suggested.

This could allow the Bulldogs — for example — to be $400,000 over the salary cap for next year but play under a reduced salary cap of $100,000 per year for the following four seasons.

The NRL are unlikely to show any leniency to those clubs which are not compliant by the start of round one.

Bulldogs chairman Ray Dib is manoeuvring behind the scenes to gather support to ensure the NRL’s salary cap is raised to at least $9.5 million.

He will host a lunch for select rival club bosses on Monday to try and gain support.

Clubs do have plenty of power. All that is needed is five disgruntled clubs to stick together and they could block any salary cap agreement struck between the NRL and the Rugby League Players Association which has the potential to send the game into further chaos.

But at this stage it is unlikely Dib would “have the numbers” to force the stalemate.

It could also cost the club star recruits Kieran Foran and Aaron Woods, whose contracts are yet to be fully ratified by the NRL.
 
El Diablo, 24 minutes ago
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Unread post by diedpretty » Sun 13 Aug, 2017 8:34 am

Jimmy Smith on BSB says a an official from one club ( guessing roosters) told him that they were approached by Canterbury and asked if there was anyone in their top 25 that they would be interested in making an offer on. Dibs lunch must not have gone as planned and Bulldogs feeling the heat.

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Unread post by 2041 » Sun 13 Aug, 2017 8:38 am

TYGA wrote:
Sat 12 Aug, 2017 2:44 pm
supercoach wrote:
Sat 12 Aug, 2017 7:29 am
TYGA wrote:
Fri 11 Aug, 2017 10:21 pm
Its an interesting scenario from what I hear.
The clubs that seek the cap raised are working with the RLPA as they have the same interest. All clubs also want 130 percent of the salary cap without question.
The issue is the NRL can't afford more as they have spent like drunkard sailors. Their long term bankers I believe CBA reportedly knocked them back for a bank loan in recent days.
The chook that laid the golden egg is about to get its head cut off by a lot of self interested clubs and players. You only have to look at rugby, a few years ago the safe was full of money and they were in great shape, a few years on they are on the brink of going under on the back of some really bad calls by the people in charge. The same thing will happen to the NRL, the game is going backwards and one of the reasons is the greed and self interest that is rife in some sections of the NRL
If the NRL were smart they would ageee to a percentage of revenue model. At the next TV deal they should schedule all games in the interest of the NRL so the competition is fair and higher quality. They will get less from the TV deal therefore the players will end up with less. Keep the same level of grass roots funding and the game will be better off.
In other words, the NRL should knowingly piss off its players and broadcast partners, and reduce its own income, solely in order to get one over the players' association?

You should consider joining one of Trump's negotiating teams with tactics like that. Or the Brexit fellas.

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Unread post by Chicken Faced Killa » Sun 13 Aug, 2017 8:50 am

The bulldogs are desperate and should not be saved. You can not go around doing what you want and then try and just the rules to suit you.

Allowing them to be $400000 over for one season and 100000 under for 4 would also be a joke. Big benefit with little consequence

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Unread post by TYGA » Sun 13 Aug, 2017 9:28 am

2041 wrote:
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 8:38 am
TYGA wrote:
Sat 12 Aug, 2017 2:44 pm
supercoach wrote:
Sat 12 Aug, 2017 7:29 am
TYGA wrote:
Fri 11 Aug, 2017 10:21 pm
Its an interesting scenario from what I hear.
The clubs that seek the cap raised are working with the RLPA as they have the same interest. All clubs also want 130 percent of the salary cap without question.
The issue is the NRL can't afford more as they have spent like drunkard sailors. Their long term bankers I believe CBA reportedly knocked them back for a bank loan in recent days.
The chook that laid the golden egg is about to get its head cut off by a lot of self interested clubs and players. You only have to look at rugby, a few years ago the safe was full of money and they were in great shape, a few years on they are on the brink of going under on the back of some really bad calls by the people in charge. The same thing will happen to the NRL, the game is going backwards and one of the reasons is the greed and self interest that is rife in some sections of the NRL
If the NRL were smart they would ageee to a percentage of revenue model. At the next TV deal they should schedule all games in the interest of the NRL so the competition is fair and higher quality. They will get less from the TV deal therefore the players will end up with less. Keep the same level of grass roots funding and the game will be better off.
In other words, the NRL should knowingly piss off its players and broadcast partners, and reduce its own income, solely in order to get one over the players' association?

You should consider joining one of Trump's negotiating teams with tactics like that. Or the Brexit fellas.
Quite the opposite short term sacrifice in the long term interests of the game. Revenue will eventually grow with a better product. Trump and Brexit have a common theme and that's winning.

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Unread post by Furious1 » Sun 13 Aug, 2017 9:43 am

So the Bulldogs went and signed 2 big name signings after being continually warned what the cap would be, knowing it would put them substantially over the cap.
Then they want to be 400k over the cap for 2018 and then take 100k less on the cap for 4 years after?

Sorry but 400k is an established solid first grader. 100k is chicken feed and nothing more than a part time player that could easily be made up in 3rd party.

If the NRL allows this crap than i don't see how they can expect current paying members of clubs to stump up the coin for memberships next year knowing their own clubs are playing in a competition with teams blatantly exceeding the cap. Infact i'm sure if we were able to be 400k over the proposed cap next year we could have kept either Woods or Tedesco. (most likely Woods as i think Teddy always wanted out no matter what the coin was)

I think there will be massive damage to the game next year if this plays out in the Dogs favour.

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Unread post by Pawsandclaws » Mon 14 Aug, 2017 8:33 am

Chris Barrett and Michael Chammas

Canterbury's last-ditch bid for significant salary cap relief next year has suffered a major blow with NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg to be a no-show at a lunch on Monday called by Bulldogs chairman Ray Dib.

Greenberg was among those invited by Dib to a get-together at Canterbury Leagues Club at which the idea of a 'soft cap' for 2018 was set to be floated, with the Bulldogs having overshot an indicative cap figure of $9.2 million for next season.

Rival clubs determined not to allow the Bulldogs to wriggle their way out of their situation were angry at the prospect of the NRL chief attending the meeting on Monday.

Greenberg's non-attendance will therefore head off a potentially furious reaction from some who oppose raising the player payment spending ceiling for 2018 after they were advised to work around a figure of $9.14m in April.

The NRL chief had planned to go along and give the club officials in attendance an update on the collective bargaining agreement talks with the Rugby League Players' Association.

However, he is now expected to be instead tied up in the first of three consecutive days of intensive negotiations with the players' union.

It is understood Greenberg notified Dib on Sunday of his inability to attend the impromptu meeting.

Eels chief Bernie Gurr will be another absentee on Monday, with a club spokesman saying that "Parramatta will not be attending the meeting".

Penrith chief Brian Fletcher is away on a family matter and was considered unlikely that anyone else from the Panthers would attend. It was unclear on Sunday if officials from other Sydney clubs would turn up to Monday's lunch. Manly and Wests Tigers were not invited to attend the meeting organised by Dib.

As reported by Fairfax Media on Saturday the NRL is poised to effectively raise next year's spending limit on players to $9.5m by taking a $300,000 veteran players' allowance outside the $9.2m cap and permitting clubs to spend it at their discretion.

The expectation is that could be the solution to appease the RLPA, who opposed the long-serving player allowance being inside the cap, and the required 75 per cent of clubs despite reluctance from some about any lift beyond the number they were told to budget around four months ago.

The Raiders were another club who had spent beyond the indicative cap for 2018 but it is understood the NRL's concession on the veteran's allowance would help solve a lot of their problems.

The same can't be said for the Bulldogs, who are facing the likelihood of having to shed multiple players to be compliant with the cap by the first round of next season.

Canterbury have had the contracts of Aaron Woods and Kieran Foran provisionally registered by the NRL on the condition they are under the salary cap by round one next year.

However they still have a million dollars worth of talent to offload, hence the desire from the club to increase the cap next year.

There appears to be little appetite from rivals to come to their aid, with interest in the players Canterbury want to release diminishing by the week given the standard of football they have been playing.

Club chairmen and chief executives will on Thursday attend a meeting at Rugby League Central, where it is expected Greenberg will propose a finalised salary cap and collective bargaining agreement.

RLPA board member Tim Mannah last week said it was "presumptuous" of the NRL to consider the players would agree to a $9.2 million salary cap, but it is hope a lock-in with the NRL this week will see the two parties reach an agreement.

The clubs will need to vote on Thursday, before a large group of players will gather on Monday week to sign off on the agreement that could be finalised in the coming days.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rug...h ... xv939.html

It would certainly appear all is falling apart for the Club. Any Official of our Club who blows the salary cap in itself should be shown the door and banned for life!
 
GrogDog, Yesterday at 10:22 PM

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Unread post by formerguest » Mon 14 Aug, 2017 8:53 am

If as proposed it is outside the cap, how ironic it would be if Reynolds is the only player that would have been eligible for the long serving allowance at the dogs. I certainly hope so.

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Unread post by 05TIGZ » Mon 14 Aug, 2017 9:23 am

I'd be very nervous if I was Aaron woods. If I was him i would be knocking on Pascoe's door , wearing my favourite head band and getting on my knees and telling him to please take me back. If he keeps delaying it , we won't have cap space , neither will the other clubs under, and if the bulldogs can't get cap compliant , then he might have no where to go.

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 14 Aug, 2017 9:39 am

05TIGZ wrote:
Mon 14 Aug, 2017 9:23 am
I'd be very nervous if I was Aaron woods. If I was him i would be knocking on Pascoe's door , wearing my favourite head band and getting on my knees and telling him to please take me back. If he keeps delaying it , we won't have cap space , neither will the other clubs under, and if the bulldogs can't get cap compliant , then he might have no where to go.
I personally wouldn't take him back, but I'm not running the club. Hopefully if they are serious about having him stay they lowball the bejesus out of him.
Corrosive tainted by sin, I'm spilling blood and I can hardly contain it;
Corrosive hallowing the hand, stiffened I eat away, eat into the surface.

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Unread post by GNR4LIFE » Mon 14 Aug, 2017 9:48 am

05TIGZ wrote:
Mon 14 Aug, 2017 9:23 am
I'd be very nervous if I was Aaron woods. If I was him i would be knocking on Pascoe's door , wearing my favourite head band and getting on my knees and telling him to please take me back. If he keeps delaying it , we won't have cap space , neither will the other clubs under, and if the bulldogs can't get cap compliant , then he might have no where to go.
Wouldn't that be a shame. You reap what you sow.

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Unread post by jirskyr » Mon 14 Aug, 2017 11:37 am

I have dibs on nobody attending Chinese lunch today! Ha suffer Dogs, suffer suffer suffer.

In regards to the veteran player allowance being "outside the cap", can anyone explain what that even means? It's a discount, you get to spend money on long-term service without it counting towards your cap, so how can it ever be counted in your cap?

I.e. what's the point of allowing Tigers to spend $100K on Chris Lawrence as a veteran, if they then count it against out total cap? Really it just means you have a cap, say $9.2M, and you allow X thousand on top of that only if it goes to veterans, which is what already happens, they are just going to increase the value of the veteran allowance. Which is fine, but I wish they'd floated that earlier for Tigers' sake.

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Unread post by Geo. » Mon 14 Aug, 2017 12:05 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 14 Aug, 2017 11:37 am
I have dibs on nobody attending Chinese lunch today! Ha suffer Dogs, suffer suffer suffer.

In regards to the veteran player allowance being "outside the cap", can anyone explain what that even means? It's a discount, you get to spend money on long-term service without it counting towards your cap, so how can it ever be counted in your cap?

I.e. what's the point of allowing Tigers to spend $100K on Chris Lawrence as a veteran, if they then count it against out total cap? Really it just means you have a cap, say $9.2M, and you allow X thousand on top of that only if it goes to veterans, which is what already happens, they are just going to increase the value of the veteran allowance. Which is fine, but I wish they'd floated that earlier for Tigers' sake.
The Veteran Player Allowance is a 300K Allowance on top of the existing Salary cap that can be spread among players who have more than 8 years service to 1 club..

I think the SMH reporting is a tad inaccurate ...So effectively you can spend 300K more on players who don't qualify within the Cap...

Questions over qualification have caused us issues in the past as Wests and Balmain Juniors were not recognised as Wests Tigers serving players...
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Unread post by bp tiger » Mon 14 Aug, 2017 12:15 pm

05TIGZ wrote:
Mon 14 Aug, 2017 9:23 am
I'd be very nervous if I was Aaron woods. If I was him i would be knocking on Pascoe's door , wearing my favourite head band and getting on my knees and telling him to please take me back. If he keeps delaying it , we won't have cap space , neither will the other clubs under, and if the bulldogs can't get cap compliant , then he might have no where to go.
on your point, heard a rumor and it is just a rumor from a club worker that the tigers had pull out of talks with other forward players who they wanted to sign, hoping to keep money in case woods came available.

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