Moses Suli

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Re: Moses Suli

Post by Newtown » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 4:10 pm

TrueTiger wrote:
king sirro wrote:If he signed elsewhere everyone would go mad at losing a good prospect in a position we need.

I think these days its easier to judge if a player is going to make it through the physical testing and opposed sessions they do. Of course that doesnt guarantee it, but its more of an educated guess these days, especially when the kids is already in your system like Suli is. We have obviously had a good look at him snd his personality too.
I remember an absolute sensation going to make his debut for the WTs.....superstar written all over him...he lasted twenty minutes and had an injury that took all that season for him to rehabilitate.....I think his name was TEDESCO...how's he going these days...?????.. :D
Some gambles pay off and some don't. What about when WT signed Chris Lawrence to a hefty long term contract whilst he was a representative player. The same year, or possibly the next, he suffers a severe hip dislocation.


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Post by Harvey » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 4:14 pm

He missed the majority of this year through injury. Potential can be a dirty word, and the young blokes need to keep making the effort and not get ahead of themselves despite the big money. A lot of them start to think that greatness will just come.
Filinga was named, Penrith also signed Brent Naden to a big deal as a youngster and also Greg Waddell to a 6 figure deal as a 16 year old (google them). Neither played first grade at all.
Considering the number of players coming off contract at the end of the year, I am not sure that 300k on an 18 year old is money well spent

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Post by southerntiger » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 4:28 pm

foreveratiger wrote:
palms wrote:Well he hasn't been offered $500k a season (which in today's cap would more likely be about $650) like Brooks and Moses were for starters. And the club is the only one that knows the state of our salary cap, not the media who throws darts at a board. There has been no breach notice by the NRL as yet so it's all heresay.
You will always have to pay overs for halves, Cleary would be a $700-800k a Season player now.

Only in 2016 can we say we started getting value for Moses....the 2 years before that we had to pay overs for him to gain NRL experience ( basically).

Realistically this kid is only 18 years old and I doubt he will see 1st Grade unless we are hit with injuries, the Club will probably start him in Holden Cup and then maybe 2nd half of the year move him to Reserve Grade to play with Men.

I've seen to many potentially great players in Holden Cup that have been touted as great things to be very average 1st Graders at best Curtis Sironen, Jake Mullaney, Groat, Brooks come to mind.

Massive gamble.
From my recollection I don't recall Groat being touted other than by Sheens. His prop partner, Neil Begovich, was touted but he decided a State Cup offer couldn't compete with his own business.

Sironen has struggled with the adjustment from being a 6 in junior footballer to being a second rower in seniors. IMO he still has the ability to be a wonderful footballer and I suspect the change will do him the world of good.

Mullaney was only touted by people who looked at his try scoring record without watching him play. He was not really ever in the clubs plans for first grade, which is why he left.

Brooks has done some amazing things in his first few years of grade. He has done some poor things as well, particularly in defence. No doubt he struggled last year to achieve consistency and relevance in games. But Im certainly not writing him off yet. He has still done some things that 12 year experienced half backs have never done.

When you look at the numbers (and I assume that it is heavily performance based) you realise its not really a gamble at all. He is probably on $200,000 - $250,000 next year, which is high given his age and experience, but there would be a few other young blokes getting similar coin to lock them down.
Last edited by southerntiger on Sun 29 Jan, 2017 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by southerntiger » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 4:30 pm

Harvey wrote:He missed the majority of this year through injury. Potential can be a dirty word, and the young blokes need to keep making the effort and not get ahead of themselves despite the big money. A lot of them start to think that greatness will just come.
Filinga was named, Penrith also signed Brent Naden to a big deal as a youngster and also Greg Waddell to a 6 figure deal as a 16 year old (google them). Neither played first grade at all.
Considering the number of players coming off contract at the end of the year, I am not sure that 300k on an 18 year old is money well spent
All three you named were 16 when the offers were made. Suli is 18. 2 years is a big difference at that age level in working out whether someone is going to make it in firsts.

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Post by stryker » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 4:40 pm

southerntiger wrote:
Brooks has done some amazing things in his first few years of grade. He has done some poor things as well, particularly in defence. No doubt he struggled last year to achieve consistency and relevance in games. But Im certainly not writing him off yet. He has still done some things that 12 year experienced half backs have never done.
Care to elaborate on this claim?


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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 4:41 pm

It's safe to say he'll see regular first grade at the very least, therefore he'll go further than some of the other names being mentioned. Whether he lives up to the hype is a completely different story.

Now that's it's sunk in, I'm wondering if the deal is really that bad. Someone calculated his earnings at about 325k per year. Which if true, I don't think is that bad given the cap increase. It's still overs, but nothing crazy. If they see him as the guy to partner Idris long term, I'll trust their judgement. They've earned trust imo given the progress that's been made.

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Post by diedpretty » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 5:02 pm

Geo. wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:Will be in the top 25 now because of his upgrade for this year?
I don't see anywhere in the SMH article or the Official release from the Wests Tigers that mentions an upgrade..?

It mentions in this article that it includes an upgrade to his current contract.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 128-gu0lap

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Post by diedpretty » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 5:07 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:It's safe to say he'll see regular first grade at the very least, therefore he'll go further than some of the other names being mentioned. Whether he lives up to the hype is a completely different story.

Now that's it's sunk in, I'm wondering if the deal is really that bad. Someone calculated his earnings at about 325k per year. Which if true, I don't think is that bad given the cap increase. It's still overs, but nothing crazy. If they see him as the guy to partner Idris long term, I'll trust their judgement. They've earned trust imo given the progress that's been made.

I reckon its closer to 350K a season - 350k x 3 = 1.05mil plus a 250k upgrade on his current contract.

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Post by king sirro » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 5:12 pm

Melbourne payed overs at the time for an unproven Ryan Hoffman that people complained about losing for years.

Some pay off some dont. Lets hope this does but only time will tell. I like it.
LAUGH NOW CRY LATER--JS

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 5:33 pm

king sirro wrote:Melbourne payed overs at the time for an unproven Ryan Hoffman that people complained about losing for years.

Some pay off some dont. Lets hope this does but only time will tell. I like it.
Last year the Storm poached Curtis Scott from the Sharks SGBall premiership winning team (Aust Schools Centre). At less than 90kgs then he was a bit light and a bit of a risk but Bellamy has had success with identifying talent.

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Post by southerntiger » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 5:33 pm

stryker wrote:
southerntiger wrote:
Brooks has done some amazing things in his first few years of grade. He has done some poor things as well, particularly in defence. No doubt he struggled last year to achieve consistency and relevance in games. But Im certainly not writing him off yet. He has still done some things that 12 year experienced half backs have never done.
Care to elaborate on this claim?
Some of his tries and assists have been very special.

Its funny how people have short memories.

The kid has a bucket load of ability. He is only now at the age where many halves are starting out. Im confident he will come good. If he can sort out his concentration in defence, he could be anything.

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Post by Telltails » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 5:43 pm

I've been critical of management lately but while it is a risk signing any young player sometimes they are risks that have to be taken, and I guess thats what you employ your recruitment people for to identify who is worth pursuing and who to let go
My big problem is what happens to young boys who
earn big dollars before they are mature enough to appreciate the privilege.This is what can screw them up long before they even get close to developing a long term career and let's face it compared to most peoples annual salary that is seriously good money. Hope he has got some strong reigns around him

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 5:46 pm

TrueTiger wrote:
king sirro wrote:If he signed elsewhere everyone would go mad at losing a good prospect in a position we need.

I think these days its easier to judge if a player is going to make it through the physical testing and opposed sessions they do. Of course that doesnt guarantee it, but its more of an educated guess these days, especially when the kids is already in your system like Suli is. We have obviously had a good look at him snd his personality too.
I remember an absolute sensation going to make his debut for the WTs.....superstar written all over him...he lasted twenty minutes and had an injury that took all that season for him to rehabilitate.....I think his name was TEDESCO...how's he going these days...?????.. :D
We hit the jackpot with Tedesco, doesn't happen too much though.
Better to throw money at some proven( not over the hill) players. Who can help the ones that we've got.
If this club hasn't learnt something about ridiculously long contracts by now, they never will.
There's nothing to stop this player (or any kid signing a long contract), from improving over the first couple of years, and then throwing a wobbly and coming up with a reason to walk away from WTs contract and go to another club, for more money.
Contracts mean nothing .
If he's a dud, then he takes the Bikkies anyway, and he's laughing.

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Post by stryker » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 5:48 pm

Theres no doubt that he has skill but saying he has done things that 12 year experienced halfbacks have never done is more applicable to the bad parts of the game.

He isnt a dud and will maybe one day make a good running 5/8 but as a controlling halfback he is garbage.

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Post by happy tiger » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 6:05 pm

,s
Geo. wrote:
southerntiger wrote:
willow wrote:It's a lot of coin but I am happy we have secured Suli. Our depth at centre is not great and Suli offers size and speed, something we sorely need. Looking forward to seeing him in the 9s.
I wasnt aware he had named in the 9s team.
Replaced Kyle Lovett I think..
Why what has Kyle done wrong ??

I was told about this bloke but hadn't seen anything , looking forward to the 9's

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Post by GoldXR50Leroy » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 6:28 pm

Well how does our Nine's team look now seeing that Our JT took the soft option, let's win this thing!!!.

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Post by Harvey » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 6:32 pm

For the money and security he has been given, he must be pretty good. The old saying is if you're good enough, you are old enough. Would suggest that any injuries should see him under consideration. Our outside back stocks are pretty thin at the moment.

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Post by foreveratiger » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 6:41 pm

southerntiger wrote:
stryker wrote:
southerntiger wrote:
Brooks has done some amazing things in his first few years of grade. He has done some poor things as well, particularly in defence. No doubt he struggled last year to achieve consistency and relevance in games. But Im certainly not writing him off yet. He has still done some things that 12 year experienced half backs have never done.
Care to elaborate on this claim?
Some of his tries and assists have been very special.

Its funny how people have short memories.

The kid has a bucket load of ability. He is only now at the age where many halves are starting out. Im confident he will come good. If he can sort out his concentration in defence, he could be anything.
Short memory? Are you serious? When was the last time he controlled a game when it really mattered?
Have you watched this guy closely? His obsessed in the low percentage intercepts he goes for, shoulders grab attempts at tackling, let's in more tries than he assists.

The obsession around Brooks is mind boggling, Jack Littlejohn can do a job for 250K per year and Moses has shown he can orchestrate a game when given the chance. Jack Littlejohn can tackle and has an all round kicking game.....Moses can do the rest.

And as for Tedesco? He wasn't on big money with his initial 3 year deal, Brooks and Moses have been on big money for years and probably getting more than Teddy in 2016.
It depends who you talk to on this Forum, if you are Optimistic? it's because your delusional and need a reality check. If you are Pessimistic? Your accused of being a negative Nancy and to go and follow another Club.

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