The best and worst defensive centres in the NRL

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Earl
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Re: The best and worst defensive centres in the NRL

Post by Earl » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 1:16 pm

cktiger wrote:
Sat 20 Jan, 2018 12:04 pm
Another case of coming to conclusions from ridiculous statistics that don't take into account what is happening around those players.
It's a pretty meaningless article isn't it.


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Post by bathursttiger » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 2:17 pm

cktiger wrote:
Sat 20 Jan, 2018 12:04 pm
Another case of coming to conclusions from ridiculous statistics that don't take into account what is happening around those players.
X2
You can get statistics to prove any conclusion you want, mostly false.

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Post by Cosimo_Zaretti » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 2:32 pm

Tiger Come Lately wrote:
Sat 20 Jan, 2018 7:39 am
I don't think this is a correct reflection. Defensive issues Imo start closer to the ruck. One on one misses are probably a better stat for wingers and centres. Easier to isolate a winger and centre if the rest of line isn't doing their job.
I agree that the problem starts in the forwards and spreads outwards, but it's still a good indicator of our edge defence that whoever we stick in the centres will have at least 1 try a game run through them

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Post by 2041 » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 10:56 am

cktiger wrote:
Sat 20 Jan, 2018 12:04 pm
Another case of coming to conclusions from ridiculous statistics that don't take into account what is happening around those players.
Quite. These "stats" are dubious in the extreme, I have to say. They're ascribing blame for two tries per game to the Tigers centres relative to the Storm ones. Let's call that 10 points. Make our defence 240 points better over the season and we'd have conceded 331 points - and the real-world Storm conceded 336.

In other words, if you take these numbers at face value:
- If the Tigers had Chambers and Scott instead of Naiqama and Suli, but no other changes at all, they would have been the best defensive team in the competition in 2017.
- Around 40% of the total points the Tigers conceded in 2017 were directly attributable to their centres.

Don't get me wrong, I'm aware that the wide defence was pretty hopeless for most of last year. But if this is true - well, I guess the positive note is that it shouldn't be hard to improve massively.

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Post by Harvey » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 11:54 am

The centres were often left isolated because of the edge back rowers needing to cover bad reads/missed tackles from Moses or Brooks.


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Post by Boonboon2 » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:02 pm

For all the arguments about the stats Esan Masters played in the same team and was top 10 abd all the others were bottom 5. For me that locks him in a place for next year

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Post by Masterton » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:18 pm

Boonboon2 wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:02 pm
For all the arguments about the stats Esan Masters played in the same team and was top 10 abd all the others were bottom 5. For me that locks him in a place for next year
It's no coincidence that Marsters started playing centre after Moses left.
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Post by jadtiger » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 10:14 pm

Masterton wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:18 pm
Boonboon2 wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:02 pm
For all the arguments about the stats Esan Masters played in the same team and was top 10 abd all the others were bottom 5. For me that locks him in a place for next year
It's no coincidence that Marsters started playing centre after Moses left.
Correct Moses poor defence led to the witches hut running out of the line and leaving nofo marking too many. a lot of people blamed nofo for the poor defensive reads inside him.Hopefully that has all changed now with one at parra and the other in reggies in 2018.

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Post by colmcd » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 12:00 am

jadtiger wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 10:14 pm
Masterton wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:18 pm
Boonboon2 wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:02 pm
For all the arguments about the stats Esan Masters played in the same team and was top 10 abd all the others were bottom 5. For me that locks him in a place for next year
It's no coincidence that Marsters started playing centre after Moses left.
Correct Moses poor defence led to the witches hut running out of the line and leaving nofo marking too many. a lot of people blamed nofo for the poor defensive reads inside him.Hopefully that has all changed now with one at parra and the other in reggies in 2018.
Moses Suli - 1.33
Michael Chee-Kam - 1.22

Isn't it funny how everyone has Moses starting for us and Esan seems to be missing out.
Yet Moses is meant to be the big superstar/tough center.... Esan is the talent coming in.
I think this stat hints that Esan should start and Moses maybe needs another season playing in the Junior grades.
Stat's hint at problems. They don't tell everything, but they tell enough in this case.

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 12:50 am

colmcd wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 12:00 am
jadtiger wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 10:14 pm
Masterton wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:18 pm
Boonboon2 wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:02 pm
For all the arguments about the stats Esan Masters played in the same team and was top 10 abd all the others were bottom 5. For me that locks him in a place for next year
It's no coincidence that Marsters started playing centre after Moses left.
Correct Moses poor defence led to the witches hut running out of the line and leaving nofo marking too many. a lot of people blamed nofo for the poor defensive reads inside him.Hopefully that has all changed now with one at parra and the other in reggies in 2018.
Moses Suli - 1.33
Michael Chee-Kam - 1.22

Isn't it funny how everyone has Moses starting for us and Esan seems to be missing out.
Yet Moses is meant to be the big superstar/tough center.... Esan is the talent coming in.
I think this stat hints that Esan should start and Moses maybe needs another season playing in the Junior grades.
Stat's hint at problems. They don't tell everything, but they tell enough in this case.
The thing that stands out with Marsters is he doesn't get found out laterally , good thing when you have a bloke of his size defending in the centres

I still wouldn't mind us getting a certain T Gillmeister for a season or two , at least if they come out of the line they will chop someone in half , certainly helps to have the attackers next time with one eye looking for a missile ready to chop them in half when they touch the ball

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Post by gallagher » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 10:24 am

happy tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 12:50 am
colmcd wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 12:00 am
jadtiger wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 10:14 pm
Masterton wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 8:18 pm


It's no coincidence that Marsters started playing centre after Moses left.
Correct Moses poor defence led to the witches hut running out of the line and leaving nofo marking too many. a lot of people blamed nofo for the poor defensive reads inside him.Hopefully that has all changed now with one at parra and the other in reggies in 2018.
Moses Suli - 1.33
Michael Chee-Kam - 1.22

Isn't it funny how everyone has Moses starting for us and Esan seems to be missing out.
Yet Moses is meant to be the big superstar/tough center.... Esan is the talent coming in.
I think this stat hints that Esan should start and Moses maybe needs another season playing in the Junior grades.
Stat's hint at problems. They don't tell everything, but they tell enough in this case.
The thing that stands out with Marsters is he doesn't get found out laterally , good thing when you have a bloke of his size defending in the centres

I still wouldn't mind us getting a certain T Gillmeister for a season or two , at least if they come out of the line they will chop someone in half , certainly helps to have the attackers next time with one eye looking for a missile ready to chop them in half when they touch the ball
You want Gillmeister in our centres next year? I suppose thats still a better idea than your K Hunt signing. :lol:

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 11:45 am

gallagher wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 10:24 am
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 12:50 am
colmcd wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 12:00 am
jadtiger wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 10:14 pm


Correct Moses poor defence led to the witches hut running out of the line and leaving nofo marking too many. a lot of people blamed nofo for the poor defensive reads inside him.Hopefully that has all changed now with one at parra and the other in reggies in 2018.
Moses Suli - 1.33
Michael Chee-Kam - 1.22

Isn't it funny how everyone has Moses starting for us and Esan seems to be missing out.
Yet Moses is meant to be the big superstar/tough center.... Esan is the talent coming in.
I think this stat hints that Esan should start and Moses maybe needs another season playing in the Junior grades.
Stat's hint at problems. They don't tell everything, but they tell enough in this case.
The thing that stands out with Marsters is he doesn't get found out laterally , good thing when you have a bloke of his size defending in the centres

I still wouldn't mind us getting a certain T Gillmeister for a season or two , at least if they come out of the line they will chop someone in half , certainly helps to have the attackers next time with one eye looking for a missile ready to chop them in half when they touch the ball
You want Gillmeister in our centres next year? I suppose thats still a better idea than your K Hunt signing. :lol:
No :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: defensive coach ...... you may have seen him before .....half the bone crunching tackles pulled off at SOO he features in the highlights

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Post by TYGA » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 7:53 pm

We got rolled in the middle giving away quick play the balls and a retreating defence. Two spot defenders in moses and brooks out wide rushing in caused the backs to make quick decisions which more often than not we’re poor. We didn’t have the class out wide in the backs and edge backrowers to cover.
That said Kev and Suli defensively were
Liabilities for the first 2/3 of the season.

Cleary has systematically addressed it with recruitment Mats and Packer won’t get rolled, Reynolds can defend with Milne and Mcqueen can cover Brooks. It’s a vast improvement in roster and structure Cleary developed later in the year.

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Post by gallagher » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 8:21 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 11:45 am
gallagher wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 10:24 am
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 12:50 am
colmcd wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 12:00 am

Moses Suli - 1.33
Michael Chee-Kam - 1.22

Isn't it funny how everyone has Moses starting for us and Esan seems to be missing out.
Yet Moses is meant to be the big superstar/tough center.... Esan is the talent coming in.
I think this stat hints that Esan should start and Moses maybe needs another season playing in the Junior grades.
Stat's hint at problems. They don't tell everything, but they tell enough in this case.
The thing that stands out with Marsters is he doesn't get found out laterally , good thing when you have a bloke of his size defending in the centres

I still wouldn't mind us getting a certain T Gillmeister for a season or two , at least if they come out of the line they will chop someone in half , certainly helps to have the attackers next time with one eye looking for a missile ready to chop them in half when they touch the ball
You want Gillmeister in our centres next year? I suppose thats still a better idea than your K Hunt signing. :lol:
No :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: defensive coach ...... you may have seen him before .....half the bone crunching tackles pulled off at SOO he features in the highlights
Is there any Qld FOG you don't want part of the tigers cub? Whats Reebs up to? We could play 6th home game in China.

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Post by happy tiger » Tue 23 Jan, 2018 12:16 am

gallagher wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 8:21 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 11:45 am
gallagher wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 10:24 am
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 12:50 am


The thing that stands out with Marsters is he doesn't get found out laterally , good thing when you have a bloke of his size defending in the centres

I still wouldn't mind us getting a certain T Gillmeister for a season or two , at least if they come out of the line they will chop someone in half , certainly helps to have the attackers next time with one eye looking for a missile ready to chop them in half when they touch the ball
You want Gillmeister in our centres next year? I suppose thats still a better idea than your K Hunt signing. :lol:
No :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: defensive coach ...... you may have seen him before .....half the bone crunching tackles pulled off at SOO he features in the highlights
Is there any Qld FOG you don't want part of the tigers cub? Whats Reebs up to? We could play 6th home game in China.
So apart from Hagan being an technical assistant for Kevie when he was getting put forward a few seasons ago , who else have I put forward

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Post by Tigerdon » Tue 23 Jan, 2018 8:20 am

TYGA wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 7:53 pm
We got rolled in the middle giving away quick play the balls and a retreating defence. Two spot defenders in moses and brooks out wide rushing in caused the backs to make quick decisions which more often than not we’re poor. We didn’t have the class out wide in the backs and edge backrowers to cover.
That said Kev and Suli defensively were
Liabilities for the first 2/3 of the season.

Cleary has systematically addressed it with recruitment Mats and Packer won’t get rolled, Reynolds can defend with Milne and Mcqueen can cover Brooks. It’s a vast improvement in roster and structure Cleary developed later in the year.
I agree our halves and edge defence was putting our centres in positions were they were marking more than one player . Not so sure that we we getting rolled through the middle though
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Post by happy tiger » Tue 23 Jan, 2018 8:34 am

Tigerdon wrote:
Tue 23 Jan, 2018 8:20 am
TYGA wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 7:53 pm
We got rolled in the middle giving away quick play the balls and a retreating defence. Two spot defenders in moses and brooks out wide rushing in caused the backs to make quick decisions which more often than not we’re poor. We didn’t have the class out wide in the backs and edge backrowers to cover.
That said Kev and Suli defensively were
Liabilities for the first 2/3 of the season.

Cleary has systematically addressed it with recruitment Mats and Packer won’t get rolled, Reynolds can defend with Milne and Mcqueen can cover Brooks. It’s a vast improvement in roster and structure Cleary developed later in the year.
I agree our halves and edge defence was putting our centres in positions were they were marking more than one player . Not so sure that we we getting rolled through the middle though
Our defence goes back even further than many have spoken about

Having a penetrating kicking game that continually turns the opposition around makes a huge difference as well

Where you start your set can have just as much effect on your set , if you need two tackles to get your set to the middle of the field your defence can add some real pressure to the opposition attack

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Post by gallagher » Tue 23 Jan, 2018 8:42 am

happy tiger wrote:
Tue 23 Jan, 2018 12:16 am
gallagher wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 8:21 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 11:45 am
gallagher wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 10:24 am

You want Gillmeister in our centres next year? I suppose thats still a better idea than your K Hunt signing. :lol:
No :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: defensive coach ...... you may have seen him before .....half the bone crunching tackles pulled off at SOO he features in the highlights
Is there any Qld FOG you don't want part of the tigers cub? Whats Reebs up to? We could play 6th home game in China.
So apart from Hagan being an technical assistant for Kevie when he was getting put forward a few seasons ago , who else have I put forward
jeez, just having a laugh.

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