Coaches Corner - Wests Tigers & Eels

Wests Tigers Discussion
happy tiger
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Re: Coaches Corner - Wests Tigers & Eels

Post by happy tiger » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:27 am

Russell wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:23 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 9:55 am
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 9:29 am
sheer64 wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 1:53 am


JT reads the game better than anyone else I have seen play, and had a heart as big as phar laps.
Im guessing by the 64 in your name sheer, that youve seen Sterlo play.
Do you think JT reads the game better than he did...there was none better at this than Sterlo imo
Paul Kent brought up a real good point yesterday

The players from the 80's dealt with limited replacements and therefore natural attrition tired forwards out who the made defensive errors due to fatigue

A bloke like Johnathan Thurston has done everything he has in the game against fresh forwards , week in week out and gets targeted every week like Cam Smith

I'm a huge fan of players like Sterling ,Lewis and Kenny , but when you weigh up with what the current halves deal with having to create against 110 kgs monsters who don't blow a candle out its hard to make a case for the 80's players
Having seen both for all of their careers - Sterling was the BEST in his era - but would not hold a candle to Thurston in my opinion.

You are making too much sense Hap - what is going on?
It wasn't my idea mate , Paul Kent's , but it made sense to me :lol:


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Post by cktiger » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:42 am

happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:27 am
Russell wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:23 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 9:55 am
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 9:29 am


Im guessing by the 64 in your name sheer, that youve seen Sterlo play.
Do you think JT reads the game better than he did...there was none better at this than Sterlo imo
Paul Kent brought up a real good point yesterday

The players from the 80's dealt with limited replacements and therefore natural attrition tired forwards out who the made defensive errors due to fatigue

A bloke like Johnathan Thurston has done everything he has in the game against fresh forwards , week in week out and gets targeted every week like Cam Smith

I'm a huge fan of players like Sterling ,Lewis and Kenny , but when you weigh up with what the current halves deal with having to create against 110 kgs monsters who don't blow a candle out its hard to make a case for the 80's players
Having seen both for all of their careers - Sterling was the BEST in his era - but would not hold a candle to Thurston in my opinion.

You are making too much sense Hap - what is going on?
It wasn't my idea mate , Paul Kent's , but it made sense to me :lol:
He might get targeted - but not the same way you got brutally targeted in the 70's and 80's.
These days you've also got forwards assigned to take the heat off you in defence.
Little blokes like Sterling had to run the gauntlet of deliberately dangerous tackles and back play dirty tricks every week.
In saying that you can't really compare players from different eras - or imagine how good Sterling, and lots of others, would have been with the improvements in training, rehabilitation, and lots more, available to them.

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Post by Russell » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:45 am

cktiger wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:42 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:27 am
Russell wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:23 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 9:55 am


Paul Kent brought up a real good point yesterday

The players from the 80's dealt with limited replacements and therefore natural attrition tired forwards out who the made defensive errors due to fatigue

A bloke like Johnathan Thurston has done everything he has in the game against fresh forwards , week in week out and gets targeted every week like Cam Smith

I'm a huge fan of players like Sterling ,Lewis and Kenny , but when you weigh up with what the current halves deal with having to create against 110 kgs monsters who don't blow a candle out its hard to make a case for the 80's players
Having seen both for all of their careers - Sterling was the BEST in his era - but would not hold a candle to Thurston in my opinion.

You are making too much sense Hap - what is going on?
It wasn't my idea mate , Paul Kent's , but it made sense to me :lol:
He might get targeted - but not the same way you got brutally targeted in the 70's and 80's.
These days you've also got forwards assigned to take the heat off you in defence.
Little blokes like Sterling had to run the gauntlet of deliberately dangerous tackles and back play dirty tricks every week.
In saying that you can't really compare players from different eras - or imagine how good Sterling, and lots of others, would have been with the improvements in training, rehabilitation, and lots more, available to them.
Conversely - how good Thurston would have been with all those lumbering big tired forwards.

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Post by Fibros » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:46 am

5 meter rule had to be a big disadvantage to attacking halves.
We will smash em 50+ get on.

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Post by underdog » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 12:22 pm

Clearyweareone wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 10:19 am
I agree with a rotation policy to keep players fresh throughout the season and allow fringe NRL players have a few games in the top grade.

When Warren Ryan coached the Canterbury Bulldogs in the 80's at the start of the season he identified how many games he would need to win to play finals football then look at the draw and identify winnable games and games he was happy to lose (these games he rested players). If they won games he identified as a loss than it would be a bonus plus he would have players fighting for positions.

Would like to see all our top 30 players given a run during the year.

It appears we will not lose any players during state of origin given our huge New Zealand contingent.

I know a lot of WT Forum members don't like Parramatta and even more so since Moses went there. Great stat I heard the other day. No team who has been beaten by more than 50 points during the regular season has ever won the Grand Final. Their pack is too small and their backs appears to be show ponies. :sign:
I think Ivan is cautiously trying to achieve this, however with the teams now being all fairly close together in terms of quality of rosters, and with so much scrutiny from media and pundits, you wouldn't be recommended to be out and out saying this, as it would be professional suicide - especially if you lost games to teams you should beat.

Wait until the seasons end and we are Grand Final Winners, THEN say "This was the plan all along!" :mrgreen:
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Post by fibrodreaming » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 2:10 pm

Fibros wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:46 am
5 meter rule had to be a big disadvantage to attacking halves.
Agreed. That's why it is so hard to compare players across eras. Sterling played his entire career under the 5 metre offside rule. They had less time with ball in hand to create.

And as someone pointed out above, the game was much more violent then. Players were targeted more brutally than today.

As far as I'm concerned, they are both great players from different eras. I'm happy to leave it at that.

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Post by cqtiger » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 5:26 pm

fibrodreaming wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 2:10 pm
Fibros wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 11:46 am
5 meter rule had to be a big disadvantage to attacking halves.
Agreed. That's why it is so hard to compare players across eras. Sterling played his entire career under the 5 metre offside rule. They had less time with ball in hand to create.

And as someone pointed out above, the game was much more violent then. Players were targeted more brutally than today.

As far as I'm concerned, they are both great players from different eras. I'm happy to leave it at that.
All the above, that’s why to be nominated as an ‘immortal’ you should be retired 20 years, not 5.

In 20 years time we’ll all be saying that *current star* is twice the player that JT or Cam Smith were.
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse
– Henry Ford

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Post by rex2ce » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 5:54 pm

underdog wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 12:22 pm
Clearyweareone wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 10:19 am
I agree with a rotation policy to keep players fresh throughout the season and allow fringe NRL players have a few games in the top grade.

When Warren Ryan coached the Canterbury Bulldogs in the 80's at the start of the season he identified how many games he would need to win to play finals football then look at the draw and identify winnable games and games he was happy to lose (these games he rested players). If they won games he identified as a loss than it would be a bonus plus he would have players fighting for positions.

Would like to see all our top 30 players given a run during the year.

It appears we will not lose any players during state of origin given our huge New Zealand contingent.

I know a lot of WT Forum members don't like Parramatta and even more so since Moses went there. Great stat I heard the other day. No team who has been beaten by more than 50 points during the regular season has ever won the Grand Final. Their pack is too small and their backs appears to be show ponies. :sign:
I think Ivan is cautiously trying to achieve this, however with the teams now being all fairly close together in terms of quality of rosters, and with so much scrutiny from media and pundits, you wouldn't be recommended to be out and out saying this, as it would be professional suicide - especially if you lost games to teams you should beat.

Wait until the seasons end and we are Grand Final Winners, THEN say "This was the plan all along!" :mrgreen:
Carefully considered rotation of the forwards, will keep the club happy, not just current first graders

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Post by innsaneink » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 6:09 pm

I cannot cop this rotation policy theory, although I know the 2nd tier cap situation has changed this year...coaches always want continuity and combinations, as little unforced changes as possible.
Its no coincidence most premiership teams use the least players

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Post by snowleopard » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 6:36 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 6:09 pm
I cannot cop this rotation policy theory, although I know the 2nd tier cap situation has changed this year...coaches always want continuity and combinations, as little unforced changes as possible.
Its no coincidence most premiership teams use the least players
Agree most premiership teams use least players but IMO we are not this year one of those teams and somehow we need to find ways to keep the intensity up in defence as that will be the key to being competitive for a number of consecutive games and stop the burn out that ultimately happens .. look at Dragons last year . IMO there is no way any forward can keep a high level for 26 rounds. Talking forwards not backs as they are the ones that carry most of the defensive load the way Ivan has us playing this year.

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Post by supercoach » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 6:37 pm

You pick your best 17 every week, but we are now in a position to rest any player who is not 100% fit and not rush them back after injury

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Post by Fibros » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:00 pm

We have players who can maintain the intensity for 26 rounds.
We will smash em 50+ get on.

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Post by Cairnstigers » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:04 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 6:09 pm
I cannot cop this rotation policy theory, although I know the 2nd tier cap situation has changed this year...coaches always want continuity and combinations, as little unforced changes as possible.
Its no coincidence most premiership teams use the least players
If that was something Ivan had in mind well why not
Play your best 17 by all means but if you don't perform this week and someone stands up in ISP then I am all for it
E.g. Nofoluma under pressure to perform
It's a long season
Would hate to lose a key player or two 3 weeks before the finals and needing 2 more wins to make it
The more experience we are able to give our top let's say 24 players
The better
But that's just my opinion

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Post by Tiger Steve » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:23 pm

snowleopard wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 9:58 am
Russell wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 8:42 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 8:22 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:57 am


Except he's not a total Wanker like Chappelli.
That wasn't the point though

For me this will be the big question though , when true fatigue starts to set in around Rd 8/9/10 how will we cope ??

Maybe short spells for players won't hurt , we do have some depth , resting blokes like Taylor , Matulino ,Packer , The Twuth , Rowdy for a Round out of every six might be beneficial down the track and give the blokes in ISP some extra motivation that they are close
Good idea - especially if it is given thought of who you can rest against what team.

Best suggestion for a long time on here.
Interesting. I posted that idea a couple of weeks ago and the answer. Was I an Aussie cricket selelector.

With our forward depth in Grant, Sue, Felise and Sirronen we wouldn’t lose much if any one of them replaced any one of our currrent pack as the difference between them is relatively small. If the ISP team forwards keeps performing then the risk is even lower and they would be motivated by knowing that they will get their chance if they maintain a high standard.
Geez mate I certainly got under your skin!! Was only a joke mate - but, I can’t stand the rotation policy in cricket and the players hate it so I’m afraid I feel it’s the same for footy. If you’re fit, you play. Players would hate resting. what if your replacement plays out of his skin? Ask josh Reynolds if he’d want to give Benji a shot at the title! NO WAY!!!!
Sorry mate, gotta let your idea go through to the keeper!
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Post by snowleopard » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:24 pm

Fibros wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:00 pm
We have players who can maintain the intensity for 26 rounds.
May I ask who you would nominate?

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Post by innsaneink » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:32 pm

Cairnstigers wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:04 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 6:09 pm
I cannot cop this rotation policy theory, although I know the 2nd tier cap situation has changed this year...coaches always want continuity and combinations, as little unforced changes as possible.
Its no coincidence most premiership teams use the least players
If that was something Ivan had in mind well why not
Play your best 17 by all means but if you don't perform this week and someone stands up in ISP then I am all for it
E.g. Nofoluma under pressure to perform
It's a long season
Would hate to lose a key player or two 3 weeks before the finals and needing 2 more wins to make it
The more experience we are able to give our top let's say 24 players
The better
But that's just my opinion
We are talking about a rotation policy, not depth for form or injuries

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Post by snowleopard » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:32 pm

Tiger Steve wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:23 pm
snowleopard wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 9:58 am
Russell wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 8:42 am
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 8:22 am


That wasn't the point though

For me this will be the big question though , when true fatigue starts to set in around Rd 8/9/10 how will we cope ??

Maybe short spells for players won't hurt , we do have some depth , resting blokes like Taylor , Matulino ,Packer , The Twuth , Rowdy for a Round out of every six might be beneficial down the track and give the blokes in ISP some extra motivation that they are close
Good idea - especially if it is given thought of who you can rest against what team.

Best suggestion for a long time on here.
Interesting. I posted that idea a couple of weeks ago and the answer. Was I an Aussie cricket selelector.

With our forward depth in Grant, Sue, Felise and Sirronen we wouldn’t lose much if any one of them replaced any one of our currrent pack as the difference between them is relatively small. If the ISP team forwards keeps performing then the risk is even lower and they would be motivated by knowing that they will get their chance if they maintain a high standard.
Geez mate I certainly got under your skin!! Was only a joke mate - but, I can’t stand the rotation policy in cricket and the players hate it so I’m afraid I feel it’s the same for footy. If you’re fit, you play. Players would hate resting. what if your replacement plays out of his skin? Ask josh Reynolds if he’d want to give Benji a shot at the title! NO WAY!!!!
Sorry mate, gotta let your idea go through to the keeper!
No worries ..but think it will be bowled middle stump for this year. Lets see what Ivan does up until Origin and then see what the match ref decides. Oh and no DRS reviews allowed please

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Post by Tiger Steve » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:41 pm

snowleopard wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:32 pm
Tiger Steve wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:23 pm
snowleopard wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 9:58 am
Russell wrote:
Thu 22 Mar, 2018 8:42 am


Good idea - especially if it is given thought of who you can rest against what team.

Best suggestion for a long time on here.
Interesting. I posted that idea a couple of weeks ago and the answer. Was I an Aussie cricket selelector.

With our forward depth in Grant, Sue, Felise and Sirronen we wouldn’t lose much if any one of them replaced any one of our currrent pack as the difference between them is relatively small. If the ISP team forwards keeps performing then the risk is even lower and they would be motivated by knowing that they will get their chance if they maintain a high standard.
Geez mate I certainly got under your skin!! Was only a joke mate - but, I can’t stand the rotation policy in cricket and the players hate it so I’m afraid I feel it’s the same for footy. If you’re fit, you play. Players would hate resting. what if your replacement plays out of his skin? Ask josh Reynolds if he’d want to give Benji a shot at the title! NO WAY!!!!
Sorry mate, gotta let your idea go through to the keeper!
No worries ..but think it will be bowled middle stump for this year. Lets see what Ivan does up until Origin and then see what the match ref decides. Oh and no DRS reviews allowed please
As long as we show more mental toughness than Warner at the moment I’ll be happy
“Peanuts! Get ya peanuts - in the shell or sugar coated!” Leichhardt memories.

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