Coach what is happening

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Russell
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Re: Coach what is happening

Post by Russell » Mon 07 May, 2018 11:32 am

We're not missing your point - we are saying don't throw a "0 NRL game rookie" to the wolves.

Thurston and Morgan would make mincemeat of him. Then you would be screaming for him to go back to the Queensland Cup.

You need experience against experience - Benji just needs to be told "Do as I tell you, or you can go and shake hands with Hodgo."


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Post by FreddyK » Mon 07 May, 2018 11:35 am

What I find interesting is that the "recent collapse" has occurred after the Manly game. Once we have tried to get our attack going things have fallen apart. It has also been a time when Benji has overplayed his hand and taken over the team. Interesting that when a penalty was awarded against the Warriors the bench was signalled to take two points - Benji went for the heroics and ignored the bench. I don't have problems with Benji playing but he must cut out the attempted heroics.

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Post by Geo. » Mon 07 May, 2018 11:35 am

Russell wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 11:32 am
We're not missing your point - we are saying don't throw a "0 NRL game rookie" to the wolves.

Thurston and Morgan would make mincemeat of him. Then you would be screaming for him to go back to the Queensland Cup.

You need experience against experience - Benji just needs to be told "Do as I tell you, or you can go and shake hands with Hodgo."

I think the whole team got that instruction after the Parra game were the reports coming from the sheds...Footy players might need 2 weeks for it to sink in tho..
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..

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Post by maxxy86 » Mon 07 May, 2018 11:41 am

Russell wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 11:32 am
We're not missing your point - we are saying don't throw a "0 NRL game rookie" to the wolves.

Thurston and Morgan would make mincemeat of him. Then you would be screaming for him to go back to the Queensland Cup.

You need experience against experience - Benji just needs to be told "Do as I tell you, or you can go and shake hands with Hodgo."
Don't think Benji can be told tho to be honest..... It's just his natural game and its NOT helping Brooks.
We look so much sharper when Luke takes control. ( Never thought I'd say those words)
Well its nearly time to have a 'CRACK'....Go you :sign:

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Post by TIGER » Mon 07 May, 2018 11:55 am

maxxy86 wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 11:24 am
Everyone is missing my point about bringing in Gamble......
I’ve never been the biggest Luke Brooks fan I’ll be honest, but this is the best I’ve seen him play ever. He looks in control and progressing well when it comes to game management. The last 3 weeks Benji has been overplaying his hand and negating the good work Luke has put in.
SOLUTION!!!!
This is why I want Gamble in the team so
Luke Brooks can own this team by himself and I’m sure Tyson will account for himself just fine. Benji can be used sparingly from the bench.
What's stopping Brooks from owning this team now?
He's come out at the start of the season saying Ivan has told him it's his team.
Benji knows it too and I'm sure he's happy for Brooks to take ownership so he can just play off the back of it.

Brooks hasn't looked like he wants to.
He had two really good games and I thought he'd turned the corner but he's gone back in his shell.

At the moment I don't know who's team it is, but I know earlier in the season it looked like it was Benji's team not Brook's.

We have 5 leaders and none of them are leading, especially our prop which is where everything starts imo and I don't want to sound like a broken record but at the moment Ben Matalino isn't leading from the front like be should be and that's the main reason we're getting beat.
I asked the question yesterday, who is our leader in the pack?

My issue with Brooks is he only wants to play when everything is going smoothly and when we're on top.
He waits for the game to come to him, for all the pieces of the puzzle to be in place before he puts himself in the game instead of taking the game to them.
Admittedly it's difficult when the last two weeks the leader of your pack makes 50m.


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Post by colmcd » Mon 07 May, 2018 12:35 pm

FreddyK wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 11:35 am
What I find interesting is that the "recent collapse" has occurred after the Manly game. Once we have tried to get our attack going things have fallen apart. It has also been a time when Benji has overplayed his hand and taken over the team. Interesting that when a penalty was awarded against the Warriors the bench was signalled to take two points - Benji went for the heroics and ignored the bench. I don't have problems with Benji playing but he must cut out the attempted heroics.
Agreed, particularly that when we have focused on Attack our gameplan and teamplan seemed to fall apart.

Causation and Correlation can be very different though. Clearly Packer added a lot in Defense so did Lawrence. Yes Lawrence has come back, but the Warriors were firing and we needed our big guys.

So what's happened in the last 3?

Our wingers! Thompson has gone Fullback and we have leaked points off his wing. MWZ was not playing and look we leaked to NZ. Whatever problems Tui has, we have missed him because him being Fullback means Thompson secures his wing.

So I totally agree with your comments. Get Packer and Reynolds back and just hire a Fullback to move Thompson back to his wing. Then we will return to our round 4 performance and we can be solid on Defense again.

Marshall is still awesome value, Just pick him over Godinet when you want a ballplaying Hooker! I think this is why Cleary has persisted with Godinet, he is your Peter Wallace a halfback that has turned hooker that can get good ball to the halves.

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Post by colmcd » Mon 07 May, 2018 12:44 pm

We should be expecting trouble now.

^ as above were missing good defensive wingers and that has just hurt us bad.

But more then that. The first rounds we prep'd and other teams did not know how to handle us. NOW, they have seen our defense, our weaknesses and how to win against us. Were looking at our line and our weak points. The first rounds, we got very lucky. These rounds are going to be fine tuning our defense and seeing who's got loose ball carries, not defending well, etc.

Were a new Frankenstein team. This is Gell time. Cleary has to Iron out the flaws and gaps that are now being found out by our opposition. If he does that we will be fine in a few rounds, if he doesn't see ST George last year.

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Post by Tiger Steve » Mon 07 May, 2018 12:46 pm

TIGERPOWER wrote:
Sun 06 May, 2018 10:29 pm
With our draw , new players and pretty much new coach, if anyone said we would be 5-4 I’m sure we would have all taken it. Decisions go our way Agaisnt Brisbane and Newcastle and we are 7-2. We’ve had adversity or bad decisions in every game we have lost. We have injuries that we can’t cover with the squad we have. People need to take a chill pill and calm down. Our biggest issue is injuries and completion rates. I’m enjoying this year more than I have in a long time and it’s because we are giving our best and competing in every game. Keep going Ivan the faith is still there.
Well said!! Especially the chill pill bit!
“Peanuts! Get ya peanuts - in the shell or sugar coated!” Leichhardt memories.

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Post by Telltails » Mon 07 May, 2018 12:59 pm

TIGER wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 10:37 am
TYGA wrote:
Sun 06 May, 2018 9:06 pm
People are underestimating the injury toll we have. We can’t go long stretches without Packer, Liddle, Reynolds, Lawrence, ET out of the squad. In addition Tui has been injured and looks unfit + we have cap space and 2 positions not taken with Milne, Sironen.
Given we have played Storm twice, Warriors, Roosters and moved two home games we are placed well. We also play until round 21 in Sydney and won’t be origin affected.

I hope Cleary gets a couple of players in the squad before the season drifts as we need another hooker, a back rower and an impact forward preferably on an edge.
I think people are over exaggerating the injurys, compared to other sides our injuries are nothing.
To me we've only had 2 injuries that effect us Packer and Liddle.

Reynolds has never played in this team so it's not as if he's being missed and it's not as if he's at the peak of his powers in career best form.
The rest of them have been niggles hammys out for a week or two and easily accommodated for.
I have no idea what's going on with Tui but on form he doesn't get picked anyway, no great loss.

Look at the Panthers run of long-term serious injuries, to key players and look where they are on the ladder.
Look at the Broncos or Parra or Titans or Cronulla or just about every club bar St George.
Newcastle lost Mitchell Pearce and they're still winning games, how do you think we'd go if we lost Brooks?
South's lost Reynolds and they still won games, the Warriors lost Johnson and we're still winning.

We haven't had a bad injury run yet!!
Anyone who is using injuries as an excuse is doing exactly that, using it as an excuse.

The same as people saying Ben Matulino will be better when Packer comes back, if Matulino can't play unless Packer is in the team then he can go back to the Warriors as far as I'm concerned. That's just an excuse.

If you think Packer or Liddle are going to change us much your gonna be in for a shock, the wheels have well n truly fallen off this team.
If you think Ivan doesn't know it you can't read body language,
Ivan is a cool customer but I'm telling you now he's feeling the pressure.
If we loose this game on Thursday night you watch the Sydney media pile on the pressure big time.
Whatever we had that was keeping us in games for 80mins has vanished, and it's real hard to get back once it goes.
I dunno Tiger I think we have had our fair share of injuries - we have hardly fielded the same team twice. Alolai, Lawrence,Taylor, Lolo, Twal, Malakai -added to Packer Liddle and Reynolds.
As for pressure on Cleary - to win? How is that different to any coach this week - because I think there is no pressure at this point in regard to his position considering that most judges had us as favourites for the spoon.
Most teams in this competition are going to hit a bump in the road and at this point most would have us exceeding expectations - and even with our losses we have remained competitive in each game. With a bit of luck/and or management at the very least we could be on 14 points.
For a team that wasnt given a chance by most, to be sitting on 10 points I think we are doing alright at this point.

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Post by The Patriot » Mon 07 May, 2018 1:05 pm

TIGER wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 10:37 am
TYGA wrote:
Sun 06 May, 2018 9:06 pm
People are underestimating the injury toll we have. We can’t go long stretches without Packer, Liddle, Reynolds, Lawrence, ET out of the squad. In addition Tui has been injured and looks unfit + we have cap space and 2 positions not taken with Milne, Sironen.
Given we have played Storm twice, Warriors, Roosters and moved two home games we are placed well. We also play until round 21 in Sydney and won’t be origin affected.

I hope Cleary gets a couple of players in the squad before the season drifts as we need another hooker, a back rower and an impact forward preferably on an edge.
I think people are over exaggerating the injurys, compared to other sides our injuries are nothing.
To me we've only had 2 injuries that effect us Packer and Liddle.

Reynolds has never played in this team so it's not as if he's being missed and it's not as if he's at the peak of his powers in career best form.
The rest of them have been niggles hammys out for a week or two and easily accommodated for.
I have no idea what's going on with Tui but on form he doesn't get picked anyway, no great loss.

Look at the Panthers run of long-term serious injuries, to key players and look where they are on the ladder.
Look at the Broncos or Parra or Titans or Cronulla or just about every club bar St George.
Newcastle lost Mitchell Pearce and they're still winning games, how do you think we'd go if we lost Brooks?
South's lost Reynolds and they still won games, the Warriors lost Johnson and we're still winning.

We haven't had a bad injury run yet!!
Anyone who is using injuries as an excuse is doing exactly that, using it as an excuse.

The same as people saying Ben Matulino will be better when Packer comes back, if Matulino can't play unless Packer is in the team then he can go back to the Warriors as far as I'm concerned. That's just an excuse.

If you think Packer or Liddle are going to change us much your gonna be in for a shock, the wheels have well n truly fallen off this team.
If you think Ivan doesn't know it you can't read body language,
Ivan is a cool customer but I'm telling you now he's feeling the pressure.
If we loose this game on Thursday night you watch the Sydney media pile on the pressure big time.
Whatever we had that was keeping us in games for 80mins has vanished, and it's real hard to get back once it goes.

No, I thought Tyga made some great points.

The loss of Milne and Suli on top of the injuries is a big issue.

Ivan need to hurry up and fill the top 30 so we can go in to each week on the same level as the 15 other teams in the comp.
Its an opinion!

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Post by barra » Mon 07 May, 2018 1:47 pm

I don't want to panic just yet. The losses against the Knights and then Parra really hurt though - they were games we should have won, and it was disappointing that the players didn't aim up.
I expected the Warriors to get us in NZ, but this Thursday will be winnable.

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Post by Plato » Mon 07 May, 2018 4:20 pm

Tigers are in the eight, Cronk got bashed up, Moses was in tears, Smith got punched in the nuts; it's all good.

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Post by Eddie » Mon 07 May, 2018 4:24 pm

FreddyK wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 11:35 am
What I find interesting is that the "recent collapse" has occurred after the Manly game. Once we have tried to get our attack going things have fallen apart. It has also been a time when Benji has overplayed his hand and taken over the team. Interesting that when a penalty was awarded against the Warriors the bench was signalled to take two points - Benji went for the heroics and ignored the bench. I don't have problems with Benji playing but he must cut out the attempted heroics.
I didn't see that ??

Im pretty sure that was Isaac Luke and the Warriors ignoring the bench to go for 2 points.

When were we ever in a position to take a penalty goal we were behind all match?

Seems to be a lot of hanging Benji going on.

He was poor but you win and lose games in the ruck and we are getting torched there at the minute.

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Post by Geo. » Mon 07 May, 2018 4:26 pm

Plato wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 4:20 pm
Tigers are in the eight, Cronk got bashed up, Moses was in tears, Smith got punched in the nuts; it's all good.
I think that was my favourite moment of the weekend...
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..

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Post by innsaneink » Mon 07 May, 2018 4:44 pm

Eddie wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 4:24 pm
FreddyK wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 11:35 am
What I find interesting is that the "recent collapse" has occurred after the Manly game. Once we have tried to get our attack going things have fallen apart. It has also been a time when Benji has overplayed his hand and taken over the team. Interesting that when a penalty was awarded against the Warriors the bench was signalled to take two points - Benji went for the heroics and ignored the bench. I don't have problems with Benji playing but he must cut out the attempted heroics.
I didn't see that ??

Im pretty sure that was Isaac Luke and the Warriors ignoring the bench to go for 2 points.

When were we ever in a position to take a penalty goal we were behind all match?

Seems to be a lot of hanging Benji going on.

He was poor but you win and lose games in the ruck and we are getting torched there at the minute.
Just before halftime I think... It was 10-0 maybe... I dunno about the bench signalling but the commentator suggested they may go for 2?...I recall thinking at the time it was a crazy decision... My memory may be off a bit

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Post by 851 » Mon 07 May, 2018 5:58 pm

maxxy86 wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 11:24 am
Everyone is missing my point about bringing in Gamble......
I’ve never been the biggest Luke Brooks fan I’ll be honest, but this is the best I’ve seen him play ever. He looks in control and progressing well when it comes to game management. The last 3 weeks Benji has been overplaying his hand and negating the good work Luke has put in.
SOLUTION!!!!
This is why I want Gamble in the team so
Luke Brooks can own this team by himself and I’m sure Tyson will account for himself just fine. Benji can be used sparingly from the bench.
That was my point as well, it is not about bringing a better player in, although on form it would not be hard to be better than Benji, it is Benji hampering Brooks and his development with diabolical decisions during games.
Gamble whilst not in great form was killing it playing with Drinkwater, I think the same could happen with Brooks, at least then Brooks would be able to show us what he was showing earlier in the year before Benji got in the road.
Go hard or go home

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Post by Icon » Mon 07 May, 2018 6:03 pm

Gee guys, I think we’re overachieving, all this talk is crazy. I think we have short memories, at the start of this year, if you were told we would be 5-4 with the draw we had, most would have been pretty happy with that, I know I would have.

Cleary is getting every drop of water out of this sponge. I agree with Supercoach, I few quality signing for next year and we might start talking about semis, but for now it’s as good as it’s going to get. Personally, I’m really enjoying it, much better than expected.

Just my opinion.

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Post by tonza » Mon 07 May, 2018 6:03 pm

TIGER wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 11:07 am
maxxy86 wrote:
Mon 07 May, 2018 7:16 am
TYGA wrote:
Sun 06 May, 2018 9:06 pm
People are underestimating the injury toll we have. We can’t go long stretches without Packer, Liddle, Reynolds, Lawrence, ET out of the squad. In addition Tui has been injured and looks unfit + we have cap space and 2 positions not taken with Milne, Sironen.
Given we have played Storm twice, Warriors, Roosters and moved two home games we are placed well. We also play until round 21 in Sydney and won’t be origin affected.

I hope Cleary gets a couple of players in the squad before the season drifts as we need another hooker, a back rower and an impact forward preferably on an edge.
There’s a good point you bring up there about where we play in the coming weeks and we won’t be origin affected. But we have to get our spine playing more together and that has to start in the next month.
Think it starts by putting Marshall on the bench against the cows. Bring in Gamble as a foil for Brooks until Grub is ready to slip into the 6. Desperately need Liddle injury free as our other options are not up to scratch. If he can’t get back on the field I think Ivan should look for a quality hooker currently playing for North’s in ISP.
Not a great idea throwing a rookie to the wolves at a packed Leichhardt TV game in a close-to must win match against the best player the game has ever seen.

It's just not how you introduce a young player into the NRL if you don't have to.
Gamble will get his time probably due to injury later in the season, you can't expect a rookie to turn this team around.
I remember watching a rookie play his second first grade game, in a Grand Final in 1969. He went on to play a further 6 years of first grade.
Last edited by tonza on Mon 07 May, 2018 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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