Mcqueen

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Nelson
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Re: Mcqueen

Post by Nelson » Tue 05 Jun, 2018 2:07 pm

TIGER wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 12:08 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 11:37 am
WT2K wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 11:18 am
Never understood why we signed him as others have said puzzling. It is what it is and 3 more years on the books.
Because we were desperately short of quality 2nd rowers at the time and he was an experienced former origin rep who was playing well for the Titans before his neck injury worsened. It wasn't necessarily a bad signing at the time (unless they were aware of the extent of his neck problem from a medical assessment).
I don't agree that he was playing well at the Titans, I don't even think he was playing well at Souths.
He had one good season there and has been run of the mill since.
When I heard we'd signed him my first reaction was WHY!!!!!
Good for you. You're negative about most players so it's no great surprise that's your opinion.


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Post by 851 » Tue 05 Jun, 2018 2:51 pm

WT2K wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 11:18 am
Never understood why we signed him as others have said puzzling. It is what it is and 3 more years on the books.
He was a JT signing, the gift that keeps on giving, Cleary might not rate the bloke, but secondrow is one of our problem area's
Go hard or go home

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Post by TIGER » Tue 05 Jun, 2018 3:50 pm

Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 2:07 pm
TIGER wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 12:08 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 11:37 am
WT2K wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 11:18 am
Never understood why we signed him as others have said puzzling. It is what it is and 3 more years on the books.
Because we were desperately short of quality 2nd rowers at the time and he was an experienced former origin rep who was playing well for the Titans before his neck injury worsened. It wasn't necessarily a bad signing at the time (unless they were aware of the extent of his neck problem from a medical assessment).
I don't agree that he was playing well at the Titans, I don't even think he was playing well at Souths.
He had one good season there and has been run of the mill since.
When I heard we'd signed him my first reaction was WHY!!!!!
Good for you. You're negative about most players so it's no great surprise that's your opinion.
So you're happy that we've signed a has been with a potential career ending neck injury for 4 years?

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Tue 05 Jun, 2018 3:53 pm

TIGER wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 3:50 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 2:07 pm
TIGER wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 12:08 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 11:37 am


Because we were desperately short of quality 2nd rowers at the time and he was an experienced former origin rep who was playing well for the Titans before his neck injury worsened. It wasn't necessarily a bad signing at the time (unless they were aware of the extent of his neck problem from a medical assessment).
I don't agree that he was playing well at the Titans, I don't even think he was playing well at Souths.
He had one good season there and has been run of the mill since.
When I heard we'd signed him my first reaction was WHY!!!!!
Good for you. You're negative about most players so it's no great surprise that's your opinion.
So you're happy that we've signed a has been with a potential career ending neck injury for 4 years?
3 years champion.

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Post by Nelson » Tue 05 Jun, 2018 4:31 pm

TIGER wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 3:50 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 2:07 pm
TIGER wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 12:08 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 11:37 am


Because we were desperately short of quality 2nd rowers at the time and he was an experienced former origin rep who was playing well for the Titans before his neck injury worsened. It wasn't necessarily a bad signing at the time (unless they were aware of the extent of his neck problem from a medical assessment).
I don't agree that he was playing well at the Titans, I don't even think he was playing well at Souths.
He had one good season there and has been run of the mill since.
When I heard we'd signed him my first reaction was WHY!!!!!
Good for you. You're negative about most players so it's no great surprise that's your opinion.
So you're happy that we've signed a has been with a potential career ending neck injury for 4 years?
I'm not happy about it but I don't see any point in looking back and critiquing signings with the benefit of hindsight and outside the context of what was actually available on the market at the time. Looks now like it was a dud signing but I didn't think it was the worst at the time (although I didn't know how bad his neck was).


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Post by magpiecol » Tue 05 Jun, 2018 4:49 pm

ancient magpie wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 11:42 am
I think ALOIAI could be the damaging backrower we are lacking but Ivan seems to prefer to use him ass abattering ram. I think he was far more dangerous last year when he was playing wider not in the middle.Everybody else has there big boys running at halves and 5/8s so why dont we.
Aloiai and MCK should never be in our first grade side.

Aloiai has little impact in either attack or defense. Completely overrated.

After MCK's absolute brain snap (giving away a penalty after the siren). Reserve grade for him.

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Post by barra » Tue 05 Jun, 2018 4:58 pm

I'd like to see how he goes given a fair opportunity in the NRL side, and the better players around him.

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Post by helmesy » Wed 06 Jun, 2018 11:39 am

barra wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 4:58 pm
I'd like to see how he goes given a fair opportunity in the NRL side, and the better players around him.
Agreed, me too.

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Post by tigeress » Wed 06 Jun, 2018 12:28 pm

helmesy wrote:
Wed 06 Jun, 2018 11:39 am
barra wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 4:58 pm
I'd like to see how he goes given a fair opportunity in the NRL side, and the better players around him.
Agreed, me too.
Me too, give the bloke a fair go :bash

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Post by Snake » Wed 06 Jun, 2018 12:32 pm

There is no room for the experience that he would bring and the smarts in the red zone , just have to keep watching dumb and mistake ridden footy I suppose .

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Post by rozelle rudy » Wed 06 Jun, 2018 1:00 pm

Best thing he could do for the club is retire.
It's possible that he could get back to something like his best, but that looks increasingly unlikely with each ISP game he plays.

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Post by rozelle rudy » Wed 06 Jun, 2018 1:11 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 12:27 pm
Snake wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 7:07 am
Here is the rub ,has this team shown any real idea how to score in the oppositions red zone !.....most here believe the only good forward is someone that continually bends the line and storms over for tries how is that going lately ?
Enter Mcqueen a player that has huge experience in all levels of the game ,the last and only time he has played in the top grade he positioned himself to lay on two try assist movements on the try line but the players around him were not good enough to take advantage of the situation.
I do not understand the hesitation that Cleary has not to include him off the bench ,especially after watching many forwards last week playing dumb footy and having no idea ..he is also a competent defender .Watching these forwards over the past month my first selection is Chris McQueen off the bench as he does have a footy brain , but then players like Aloiai and Chee-Kam repeatedly are selected but give away penalties /play dumb and generally have no impact ...I think a player with smarts and good skills trumps that any day but that is my opinion we have someone that can win games languishing in reserve grade .
I can understand Cleary's hesitation, because I've seen a few ISP games and McQueen has not stood out as an obvious promotion, but also I would be ok with him being given more of a run in firsts.

You are right about McQueen vs Chee-Kam - McQueen is a much smarter footballer. Same with Chris Lawrence, who was much maligned up until this year, but Rowdy is a shrewd footballer beyond his pure physical capacity. In terms of pure power and explosiveness, then no neither Rowdy nor McQueen can match Aloiai, MCK, Sue. But those latter few players struggle to lay down the minutes, don't position themselves effectively on the fringes and have lots of mistakes in them.

Say what you will about Lawrence, most of his mistakes are from dodgy passes when he's in the teeth of the defence, because he actually puts his body on the line to run holes. Rowdy is also a great kick-chaser and proved it again on the weekend.

MCK has been given the opportunity to play bigger minutes, but frankly I see lots of dumb play in those minutes. He certainly has heart, but I saw a fatigued footballer against the Roosters, always half a step behind in defence, in retreating to his line, and taking fairly mundane options with the ball. His errors were from fatigue. Don't blame the coach and say he needed to be swapped - the starting backrowers need to play the minutes, that's the deal. That's why Rochow's been picked so often, not because he's a dynamic footballer, but because he can plug holes for 80 mins.

An example, apart from the obvious HT penalty that MCK gave away. When Ferguson put on the Roosters' second try, Benji raced up and MCK was forced to cover to the outside, so it's not MCK's fault. As play progressed he continued to come forward rather than across, then once he did adjust on Ferguson, he sort of grabbed him by the waist and pulled down - at which time Ferguson had already drawn Marsters and freed his arm for the offload. MCK could possibly have tackled the arm or aimed at the football, and without diving he did nothing to stop Ferguson's momentum.

So whilst it wasn't MCK's fault for the overlap, if you are a legitimate edge backrower, you need to be able to cover those situations, because the opposition are always running fullbacks into the edges to create the overlap. MCK just looked gassed to me, he was half a step short on the play.

The other thing I'll say about McQueen is that in ISP, if you are a edge hole runner, you rely on the service of your halves. So it becomes harder to be a "standout" if your service is ISP-level or worse. All fine for Aloiai and Sue to take some strong carries and drag defenders - ISP-level defenders from an individual run. That doesn't happen the same way in first grade.

Last comment: big ask, but I want to know why our backrowers don't run lines any more? Lawrence is the only one who does it. Part of the problem with a stuttering attack is lack of options. When Brooks and/or Benji run to the line, if the only pass available is the early one to the centre, then it's not that hard to deal with. Where are our players in motion? Tui has failed to insert himself here the past 2 weeks and the backrowers are often nowhere to be seen. I looked up a video of Gareth Ellis to explain what I mean. He's obviously an extreme talent, but if you are always making yourself available on these runs, then you put the opposition in two minds and the gaps start to appear:
Great assessments.

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Post by cktiger » Wed 06 Jun, 2018 1:15 pm

I'd have him in the team over MCK any day.

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Post by Geo. » Wed 06 Jun, 2018 1:17 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 12:27 pm
Snake wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 7:07 am
Here is the rub ,has this team shown any real idea how to score in the oppositions red zone !.....most here believe the only good forward is someone that continually bends the line and storms over for tries how is that going lately ?
Enter Mcqueen a player that has huge experience in all levels of the game ,the last and only time he has played in the top grade he positioned himself to lay on two try assist movements on the try line but the players around him were not good enough to take advantage of the situation.
I do not understand the hesitation that Cleary has not to include him off the bench ,especially after watching many forwards last week playing dumb footy and having no idea ..he is also a competent defender .Watching these forwards over the past month my first selection is Chris McQueen off the bench as he does have a footy brain , but then players like Aloiai and Chee-Kam repeatedly are selected but give away penalties /play dumb and generally have no impact ...I think a player with smarts and good skills trumps that any day but that is my opinion we have someone that can win games languishing in reserve grade .
I can understand Cleary's hesitation, because I've seen a few ISP games and McQueen has not stood out as an obvious promotion, but also I would be ok with him being given more of a run in firsts.

You are right about McQueen vs Chee-Kam - McQueen is a much smarter footballer. Same with Chris Lawrence, who was much maligned up until this year, but Rowdy is a shrewd footballer beyond his pure physical capacity. In terms of pure power and explosiveness, then no neither Rowdy nor McQueen can match Aloiai, MCK, Sue. But those latter few players struggle to lay down the minutes, don't position themselves effectively on the fringes and have lots of mistakes in them.

Say what you will about Lawrence, most of his mistakes are from dodgy passes when he's in the teeth of the defence, because he actually puts his body on the line to run holes. Rowdy is also a great kick-chaser and proved it again on the weekend.

MCK has been given the opportunity to play bigger minutes, but frankly I see lots of dumb play in those minutes. He certainly has heart, but I saw a fatigued footballer against the Roosters, always half a step behind in defence, in retreating to his line, and taking fairly mundane options with the ball. His errors were from fatigue. Don't blame the coach and say he needed to be swapped - the starting backrowers need to play the minutes, that's the deal. That's why Rochow's been picked so often, not because he's a dynamic footballer, but because he can plug holes for 80 mins.

An example, apart from the obvious HT penalty that MCK gave away. When Ferguson put on the Roosters' second try, Benji raced up and MCK was forced to cover to the outside, so it's not MCK's fault. As play progressed he continued to come forward rather than across, then once he did adjust on Ferguson, he sort of grabbed him by the waist and pulled down - at which time Ferguson had already drawn Marsters and freed his arm for the offload. MCK could possibly have tackled the arm or aimed at the football, and without diving he did nothing to stop Ferguson's momentum.

So whilst it wasn't MCK's fault for the overlap, if you are a legitimate edge backrower, you need to be able to cover those situations, because the opposition are always running fullbacks into the edges to create the overlap. MCK just looked gassed to me, he was half a step short on the play.

The other thing I'll say about McQueen is that in ISP, if you are a edge hole runner, you rely on the service of your halves. So it becomes harder to be a "standout" if your service is ISP-level or worse. All fine for Aloiai and Sue to take some strong carries and drag defenders - ISP-level defenders from an individual run. That doesn't happen the same way in first grade.

Last comment: big ask, but I want to know why our backrowers don't run lines any more? Lawrence is the only one who does it. Part of the problem with a stuttering attack is lack of options. When Brooks and/or Benji run to the line, if the only pass available is the early one to the centre, then it's not that hard to deal with. Where are our players in motion? Tui has failed to insert himself here the past 2 weeks and the backrowers are often nowhere to be seen. I looked up a video of Gareth Ellis to explain what I mean. He's obviously an extreme talent, but if you are always making yourself available on these runs, then you put the opposition in two minds and the gaps start to appear:
Garner doesn't seem to have a problem running an edge or tackling..same halves..
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Post by goldcoast tiger » Wed 06 Jun, 2018 1:33 pm

Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 2:07 pm
TIGER wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 12:08 pm
Nelson wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 11:37 am
WT2K wrote:
Tue 05 Jun, 2018 11:18 am
Never understood why we signed him as others have said puzzling. It is what it is and 3 more years on the books.
Because we were desperately short of quality 2nd rowers at the time and he was an experienced former origin rep who was playing well for the Titans before his neck injury worsened. It wasn't necessarily a bad signing at the time (unless they were aware of the extent of his neck problem from a medical assessment).
I don't agree that he was playing well at the Titans, I don't even think he was playing well at Souths.
He had one good season there and has been run of the mill since.
When I heard we'd signed him my first reaction was WHY!!!!!
Good for you. You're negative about most players so it's no great surprise that's your opinion.
He never set the world on fire at any time at the Titans, he was, at best , ok up until his injury.

When he was signed for us, the word coming out of the club was amazement that any club was prepared to give good money and especially over a 4 yr contract,
It was well known throughout Rugby League on the Coast , that his injury was worse than first thought, and it could end his career at any time,
I’m not just saying this in hindsight. I posted this information around the time that we were signing him.
I could never understand why they wanted to buy him , when it was an open secret around here,that he wasntgoing to be anything like his best, and unlikely to be up to first grade standard again

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Post by jirskyr » Wed 06 Jun, 2018 2:19 pm

Geo. wrote:
Wed 06 Jun, 2018 1:17 pm
Gdoesn't seem to have a problem running an edge or tackling..same halves..
Then put Garner in firsts, it's the same argument.

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Post by Earl » Wed 06 Jun, 2018 3:06 pm

cktiger wrote:
Wed 06 Jun, 2018 1:15 pm
I'd have him in the team over MCK any day.
Have you seen him play. He looks ordinary in ISP. MCK looks several classes above him. Sue, Nofo, Fonua, Felise, Aloiai, Grant etc all perform really well in ISP.

I couldn't pick the guy simply because he doesn't deserve it on form.

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Post by Demps » Wed 06 Jun, 2018 3:12 pm

Earl wrote:
Wed 06 Jun, 2018 3:06 pm
cktiger wrote:
Wed 06 Jun, 2018 1:15 pm
I'd have him in the team over MCK any day.
Have you seen him play. He looks ordinary in ISP. MCK looks several classes above him. Sue, Nofo, Fonua, Felise, Aloiai, Grant etc all perform really well in ISP.

I couldn't pick the guy simply because he doesn't deserve it on form.
I'm with ya...
Odd statement

Mck > McDud
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