To those who are blaming Cleary

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Cultured Bogan
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Re: To those who are blaming Cleary

Post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 4:41 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 2:56 pm
Geo. wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 12:17 pm
Dont know where i said all the issues would be fixed but Ok im convinced next year will be better....ps Cleary extended Chee Kam..

Why should we just accept it year after year ...one thing i am rapt with Cleary up until yesterday our defense and fight has improved he had our mob of no hopers playing well early on i just question where that went....build forward on the good start not fall in a heap that falls on a he coach and the players...
You said you expected more. My post was to ask you what more you expected, or why more. The team came 14th last year, so you are saying 10th with 9 matches remaining isn't good enough?

Why should we accept it year after year? Well because if you don't accept it, you might as well stop supporting the Tigers, because there's mostly lean years to be had. It's not great, and on an official level it's not acceptable, but as a fan what choice do you have? Walk away after bad years? That would have culled most of the Tigers fans decades ago.

The team does appear on the up, regardless of the Canberra result. Usually we'd have several Canberra-type outcomes every year and this is our first for 2018. Understandably everyone got upset and it appears magnified because we were hoping these types of performances were starting to be behind us.

I just try to frame realistic expectations, e.g. do better than last year. We came 14th last year, so in the space of 10-13th on the ladder isn't much better, but it is an improvement. 8th would be great, but that means we have to end up better than half the sides in the comp - is that a realistic assessment of the team we currently have?
You just go and follow Souths or Melbourne.
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Geo.
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Post by Geo. » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 5:20 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 2:56 pm
Geo. wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 12:17 pm
Dont know where i said all the issues would be fixed but Ok im convinced next year will be better....ps Cleary extended Chee Kam..

Why should we just accept it year after year ...one thing i am rapt with Cleary up until yesterday our defense and fight has improved he had our mob of no hopers playing well early on i just question where that went....build forward on the good start not fall in a heap that falls on a he coach and the players...
You said you expected more. My post was to ask you what more you expected, or why more. The team came 14th last year, so you are saying 10th with 9 matches remaining isn't good enough?

Why should we accept it year after year? Well because if you don't accept it, you might as well stop supporting the Tigers, because there's mostly lean years to be had. It's not great, and on an official level it's not acceptable, but as a fan what choice do you have? Walk away after bad years? That would have culled most of the Tigers fans decades ago.

The team does appear on the up, regardless of the Canberra result. Usually we'd have several Canberra-type outcomes every year and this is our first for 2018. Understandably everyone got upset and it appears magnified because we were hoping these types of performances were starting to be behind us.

I just try to frame realistic expectations, e.g. do better than last year. We came 14th last year, so in the space of 10-13th on the ladder isn't much better, but it is an improvement. 8th would be great, but that means we have to end up better than half the sides in the comp - is that a realistic assessment of the team we currently have?
Umm I'll never stop supporting Wests Tigers...Cleary had them playing like a Top 8 side....
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..

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Post by Love the WestsTigers » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 5:37 pm

Even i can tell you MCK adds more value than Grant

Hope Cleary eventually sees that

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Post by Tigrr » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 5:41 pm

TigerSJ wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 1:40 pm
Just wait a minute guys.......
In every interview I have seen with Cleary (and there has been plenty of them), when asked about how well the team have started or lately "whether the wheels fallen off" etc, Ivan has been very clear to dampen down expectations and explain that they are trying to re-build a whole new attitude, a new and better culture at this club. He has spoken about bringing in players that were the right guys "at the moment" or for this part of their journey. People need to listen to his interviews - he freely admits that they will have some dark times and it will seem like they are taking two steps forward and one back etc etc. He also never judges their progress by where they are on the ladder but by if they keep being a competitive team for the full 80 minutes and whether they keep improving each week. Ivan has said that they are working on improving the roster at all times and that this is an ongoing mission.
On this basis (and up until this last game)he has done exactly what he said and is still doing it. He said that it will take 3 years and I say we let him have that time because he has definitely turned things around and put us on a far better course so far. Any fan who can't see that is not looking past this season!
x2

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Post by Harvey » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:11 pm

Tigrr wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 5:41 pm
TigerSJ wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 1:40 pm
Just wait a minute guys.......
In every interview I have seen with Cleary (and there has been plenty of them), when asked about how well the team have started or lately "whether the wheels fallen off" etc, Ivan has been very clear to dampen down expectations and explain that they are trying to re-build a whole new attitude, a new and better culture at this club. He has spoken about bringing in players that were the right guys "at the moment" or for this part of their journey. People need to listen to his interviews - he freely admits that they will have some dark times and it will seem like they are taking two steps forward and one back etc etc. He also never judges their progress by where they are on the ladder but by if they keep being a competitive team for the full 80 minutes and whether they keep improving each week. Ivan has said that they are working on improving the roster at all times and that this is an ongoing mission.
On this basis (and up until this last game)he has done exactly what he said and is still doing it. He said that it will take 3 years and I say we let him have that time because he has definitely turned things around and put us on a far better course so far. Any fan who can't see that is not looking past this season!
x2
What a co-incidence. Will take as long as he is contracted for. JT should have set similar expectations of mediocrity, and then people would have been satisfied what him delivering that.


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Post by GNR4LIFE » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:41 pm

So let me get this straight. We were in a quagmire with our cap as far back as 2014. We knew it was going to take a few years to fix it. We all saw 2018 as a beacon, because we knew that was when we could even out the books once and all. That’s been done and now we have to wait another 3 years? 🤔

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:45 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 4:39 pm
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 2:05 pm
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 1:38 pm
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 12:25 pm


And he did multiple times. Godinet according to you wasnt first grade material so he was dropped. You kept calling for KILLA to be picked and he showed us yesterday why he isn’t being picked. Liddle keeps getting injured. With the squad we have , the last thing we can afford is injuries to key players in key positions . Unfortunately we’ve had no luck there with liddle, nofa, Reynolds, Marshall, packer.....
When was that? When he drew an offside penalty that put us on the front foot, or when he laid on the pass that put Rowdy under the posts??
No when he let papali straight through 2 metres out from our tryline. He can’t defend, and that’s why he isn’t picked and shouldn’t be picked again. And your kidding yourself if your crediting Lawrence’s try to mcwillricks pass, that’s hilarious lol.
To be fair it was the only tackle he missed, made 17 others OK, and he limped off with an ankle injury a minute or so later, not sure whether he got busted prior to that try or not though... I think he's only missed three tackles for the year from four games. Godinet has missed 31 tackles in nine games so he's no superstar defender either.

All I know is that the wheels fell off after he went off. We looked OK when he was out there. ET got out there and started lobbing passes everywhere but at the chest.
I said yesterday both sides number 9’s had a big affect on the game. McIlwrick made a big difference to our attack early, with the penalty he drew and his role in Rowdy’s try. Then he got injured and Hodgson came on and the tide turned.

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Post by jirskyr » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:50 pm

Geo. wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 5:20 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 2:56 pm
Geo. wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 12:17 pm
Dont know where i said all the issues would be fixed but Ok im convinced next year will be better....ps Cleary extended Chee Kam..

Why should we just accept it year after year ...one thing i am rapt with Cleary up until yesterday our defense and fight has improved he had our mob of no hopers playing well early on i just question where that went....build forward on the good start not fall in a heap that falls on a he coach and the players...
You said you expected more. My post was to ask you what more you expected, or why more. The team came 14th last year, so you are saying 10th with 9 matches remaining isn't good enough?

Why should we accept it year after year? Well because if you don't accept it, you might as well stop supporting the Tigers, because there's mostly lean years to be had. It's not great, and on an official level it's not acceptable, but as a fan what choice do you have? Walk away after bad years? That would have culled most of the Tigers fans decades ago.

The team does appear on the up, regardless of the Canberra result. Usually we'd have several Canberra-type outcomes every year and this is our first for 2018. Understandably everyone got upset and it appears magnified because we were hoping these types of performances were starting to be behind us.

I just try to frame realistic expectations, e.g. do better than last year. We came 14th last year, so in the space of 10-13th on the ladder isn't much better, but it is an improvement. 8th would be great, but that means we have to end up better than half the sides in the comp - is that a realistic assessment of the team we currently have?
Umm I'll never stop supporting Wests Tigers...Cleary had them playing like a Top 8 side....
Well there you go. I'm looking forward to them playing like a Top 8 side again - definitely possible.

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Post by Geo. » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:55 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:50 pm
Geo. wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 5:20 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 2:56 pm
Geo. wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 12:17 pm
Dont know where i said all the issues would be fixed but Ok im convinced next year will be better....ps Cleary extended Chee Kam..

Why should we just accept it year after year ...one thing i am rapt with Cleary up until yesterday our defense and fight has improved he had our mob of no hopers playing well early on i just question where that went....build forward on the good start not fall in a heap that falls on a he coach and the players...
You said you expected more. My post was to ask you what more you expected, or why more. The team came 14th last year, so you are saying 10th with 9 matches remaining isn't good enough?

Why should we accept it year after year? Well because if you don't accept it, you might as well stop supporting the Tigers, because there's mostly lean years to be had. It's not great, and on an official level it's not acceptable, but as a fan what choice do you have? Walk away after bad years? That would have culled most of the Tigers fans decades ago.

The team does appear on the up, regardless of the Canberra result. Usually we'd have several Canberra-type outcomes every year and this is our first for 2018. Understandably everyone got upset and it appears magnified because we were hoping these types of performances were starting to be behind us.

I just try to frame realistic expectations, e.g. do better than last year. We came 14th last year, so in the space of 10-13th on the ladder isn't much better, but it is an improvement. 8th would be great, but that means we have to end up better than half the sides in the comp - is that a realistic assessment of the team we currently have?
Umm I'll never stop supporting Wests Tigers...Cleary had them playing like a Top 8 side....
Well there you go. I'm looking forward to them playing like a Top 8 side again - definitely possible.
yep that's what i expect..this year..
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..

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Post by TIGERPOWER » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 8:07 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:41 pm
So let me get this straight. We were in a quagmire with our cap as far back as 2014. We knew it was going to take a few years to fix it. We all saw 2018 as a beacon, because we knew that was when we could even out the books once and all. That’s been done and now we have to wait another 3 years? 🤔
Still defending the JT years of rubbish. Anybody who thought 2018 was going to be a breakout year has absolutely no idea about footy and should start following another sport. You were still supporting JT after 3 years of rubbish, yet your carrying on about Cleary after half a season, hypocritical to say the least.

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Post by clokan » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 8:34 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 4:39 pm

To be fair it was the only tackle he missed, made 17 others OK, and he limped off with an ankle injury a minute or so later, not sure whether he got busted prior to that try or not though... I think he's only missed three tackles for the year from four games. Godinet has missed 31 tackles in nine games so he's no superstar defender either.

All I know is that the wheels fell off after he went off. We looked OK when he was out there. ET got out there and started lobbing passes everywhere but at the chest.
I think it was more a case of Hodgson came on than McIlwrick coming off

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Post by magpiecol » Mon 18 Jun, 2018 11:22 pm

TIGERPOWER wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 8:07 pm
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:41 pm
So let me get this straight. We were in a quagmire with our cap as far back as 2014. We knew it was going to take a few years to fix it. We all saw 2018 as a beacon, because we knew that was when we could even out the books once and all. That’s been done and now we have to wait another 3 years? 🤔
Still defending the JT years of rubbish. Anybody who thought 2018 was going to be a breakout year has absolutely no idea about footy and should start following another sport. You were still supporting JT after 3 years of rubbish, yet your carrying on about Cleary after half a season, hypocritical to say the least.
Half a season? The team has played what? 15 rounds?

During those rounds they played crap for 40 minutes and some so called fans want to throw Cleary under his own bus?

Unbelievable.

:bash :bash :bash

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Post by TIGERPOWER » Tue 19 Jun, 2018 12:30 am

magpiecol wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 11:22 pm
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 8:07 pm
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:41 pm
So let me get this straight. We were in a quagmire with our cap as far back as 2014. We knew it was going to take a few years to fix it. We all saw 2018 as a beacon, because we knew that was when we could even out the books once and all. That’s been done and now we have to wait another 3 years? 🤔
Still defending the JT years of rubbish. Anybody who thought 2018 was going to be a breakout year has absolutely no idea about footy and should start following another sport. You were still supporting JT after 3 years of rubbish, yet your carrying on about Cleary after half a season, hypocritical to say the least.
Half a season? The team has played what? 15 rounds?

During those rounds they played crap for 40 minutes and some so called fans want to throw Cleary under his own bus?

Unbelievable.

:bash :bash :bash
We’ve been in almost every game this year. The one bad half against the raiders was every second game under JT. We have improved so much this year and I’m so proud of Ivan and the boys for what they have done. If we have some luck with injuries and referees then I think we could give it a good shake with the rest of the year.

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Post by Red88 Tiger » Tue 19 Jun, 2018 3:59 am

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:41 pm
So let me get this straight. We were in a quagmire with our cap as far back as 2014. We knew it was going to take a few years to fix it. We all saw 2018 as a beacon, because we knew that was when we could even out the books once and all. That’s been done and now we have to wait another 3 years? 🤔
The biggest thing of note for me is the fact that the players you may want or need aren't available when you need them. Also there was uncertainty with the coach which limits negotiations imo

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Post by The Patriot » Tue 19 Jun, 2018 7:15 am

Umm we are still rebuilding because Jason Taylor levelled the place. It was a total mess when he left. All our best players left and the club was the joke of the league.

The recruitment was as good as it coulod have been given the circumstances.

Cleary is doing a good job of putting it back together.
Its an opinion!

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Tue 19 Jun, 2018 9:43 am

The Patriot wrote:
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 7:15 am
Umm we are still rebuilding because Jason Taylor levelled the place. It was a total mess when he left. All our best players left and the club was the joke of the league.

The recruitment was as good as it coulod have been given the circumstances.

Cleary is doing a good job of putting it back together.
He was sacked before they left. If i recall, everyone was rejoicing saying they would now re-sign, that its what was holding them back. We needed a real coach they said. Cleary was here a good month and was asked specifically during his first press conference whether he would be involved in negotiations and his answer was yes. But Taylor is the reason they left...

Also, how do you rebuild something that was never built in the first place?

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Post by Tiger Steve » Tue 19 Jun, 2018 9:47 am

The Patriot wrote:
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 7:15 am
Umm we are still rebuilding because Jason Taylor levelled the place. It was a total mess when he left. All our best players left and the club was the joke of the league.

The recruitment was as good as it coulod have been given the circumstances.

Cleary is doing a good job of putting it back together.
Yes!
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Post by happy tiger » Tue 19 Jun, 2018 9:59 am

MacDougall wrote:
Sun 17 Jun, 2018 9:06 pm
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Sun 17 Jun, 2018 9:02 pm
MacDougall wrote:
Sun 17 Jun, 2018 8:59 pm
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Sun 17 Jun, 2018 8:57 pm

Pick a hooker for starters.
So he didn't start the game with McIlwrick today?
He did. 6 weeks too late
He has been rotating the other four through there the entire time.

McIlwrick is not the reason we aren't running in the top 4. The dude played himself out the side early in the year by sucking.

Do you think Cleary wants to play Taylor at 9? He doesn't know what to do with the hooker problem. Nobody does. Picking McIlwrick is not the answer and never was.
You pick a 9 to play 9 , Liddle played ISP , was the first choice hooker barring injury , you stick with him

Don't try and fit a square peg in a round hole

I can deal with 15-20 minutes of ET playing in the role , but that's it

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