Cleary

Wests Tigers Discussion
will1999
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Re: cleary

Post by will1999 » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 4:29 pm

Josh Aloiai, Luke Brooks, Michael Chee-Kam, Mahe Fonua, Tyson Gamble, Chris Lawrence, Jacob Liddle, Tuimoala Lolohea, Robbie Rochow, Corey Thompson.
there the off contract players for next year I would get rid of MCK, Rochow and Lolahea maybe Gamble


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Post by Russell » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 4:32 pm

will1999 wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 4:29 pm
Josh Aloiai, Luke Brooks, Michael Chee-Kam, Mahe Fonua, Tyson Gamble, Chris Lawrence, Jacob Liddle, Tuimoala Lolohea, Robbie Rochow, Corey Thompson.
there the off contract players for next year I would get rid of MCK, Rochow and Lolahea maybe Gamble
At the end of next year!!!

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 4:39 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 4:26 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 3:45 pm
momo&medo wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 2:47 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:28 am


A lot of predictable wrist slitting.

See when a team is highly competitive for about 10 rounds, then much less competitive for 10 rounds, who is to blame? Is it the coach's fault for not getting the players up each and every week over 24 rounds? Or is it the player's fault for not being able to produce consistent performances week in and out.

I find it very hard to believe that a coach who got the team to 5-1 in the first 6 weeks suddenly doesn't know how to coach or build a roster. How can the strategy and game management that played so well for the first half of the year suddenly not work any more?

To me that falls on the players. There are systems in place that help us play well, defend and play tough, but they aren't being followed the past 8-10 weeks. To be smashed by Canberra and limply fall to Titans in 2 weeks separated by a bye, I can't really put that on the coach. Getting beat is one thing, getting hammered and having no fight is another, and usually that's about the players.

The real question for me is why do the players fall away? It's not the same team year on year, though we've brought a few oldies back in 2018. Sheens, Taylor, Potter, Cleary, Pearce, Lamb - that's a lot of coaches managing to follow the same game plan - start well early, finish poorly, finish just outside the finals (or worse).
I don’t think that many teams have demonstrated winning consistency. Ones that do have developed a team culture mixed with a core group of top line players.
Never in my 50+ years of watching NRL have I seen a inexperienced team such as 2018 WT are (cobbled together with a mixture of good, average and bad) reach any great heights.
So did not and do not expect much more than we have achieved this year ..... improvement!
For all those dreamers and critics ..... ease off learn how to be patient .... and learn how to LOSE!
Sorry jirskyr,
But that last sentence was hilarious, I was just wondering which Wests supporter hasn’t had the most extensive lessons in losing that any sports follower could ever have, we are THE BEST. :evil:

Do we have a supporter living in a cave inLower Kurdistan who has no power, internet or any other link to any civilisation in the known world? He’d be the only one to not hear our results
We are the only sports fans anywhere who have to sign a binding agreement, that states that we have to sit an exam (with a 100% pass )stating that we are EXTREMELY great at losing.

There is no sports supporter that is better than us in losing, we can write books on it,
We can give talks to Governments on Losing, (and that’s not easy).
North Sydney ask us for tips on losing ,
All the blokes who raced Steven Bradbury were WESTS Supporters :o
And as certain proof that WT supporters are bloody good at losing ,is the fact that none were allowed in the Syndicate that owned Winx
What more evidence do you want
We’re the Best :righton:
Ease up I didn't write that, M&M did.
My mistake, sorry

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Post by innsaneink » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 4:41 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:28 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:17 am
Well it hasn't taken long to turn on the coach. Fraction more than half a season.

Oh! well - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
A lot of predictable wrist slitting.

See when a team is highly competitive for about 10 rounds, then much less competitive for 10 rounds, who is to blame? Is it the coach's fault for not getting the players up each and every week over 24 rounds? Or is it the player's fault for not being able to produce consistent performances week in and out.

I find it very hard to believe that a coach who got the team to 5-1 in the first 6 weeks suddenly doesn't know how to coach or build a roster. How can the strategy and game management that played so well for the first half of the year suddenly not work any more?

To me that falls on the players. There are systems in place that help us play well, defend and play tough, but they aren't being followed the past 8-10 weeks. To be smashed by Canberra and limply fall to Titans in 2 weeks separated by a bye, I can't really put that on the coach. Getting beat is one thing, getting hammered and having no fight is another, and usually that's about the players.

The real question for me is why do the players fall away? It's not the same team year on year, though we've brought a few oldies back in 2018. Sheens, Taylor, Potter, Cleary, Pearce, Lamb - that's a lot of coaches managing to follow the same game plan - start well early, finish poorly, finish just outside the finals (or worse).
Whats the common denominator for all those coaches?

Our training facilities?

Are they that bad its the reason we cannot sustain anything like top level output over a long NRL season?

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Post by Geo. » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 4:43 pm

momo&medo wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 2:47 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:28 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:17 am
Well it hasn't taken long to turn on the coach. Fraction more than half a season.

Oh! well - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
A lot of predictable wrist slitting.

See when a team is highly competitive for about 10 rounds, then much less competitive for 10 rounds, who is to blame? Is it the coach's fault for not getting the players up each and every week over 24 rounds? Or is it the player's fault for not being able to produce consistent performances week in and out.

I find it very hard to believe that a coach who got the team to 5-1 in the first 6 weeks suddenly doesn't know how to coach or build a roster. How can the strategy and game management that played so well for the first half of the year suddenly not work any more?

To me that falls on the players. There are systems in place that help us play well, defend and play tough, but they aren't being followed the past 8-10 weeks. To be smashed by Canberra and limply fall to Titans in 2 weeks separated by a bye, I can't really put that on the coach. Getting beat is one thing, getting hammered and having no fight is another, and usually that's about the players.

The real question for me is why do the players fall away? It's not the same team year on year, though we've brought a few oldies back in 2018. Sheens, Taylor, Potter, Cleary, Pearce, Lamb - that's a lot of coaches managing to follow the same game plan - start well early, finish poorly, finish just outside the finals (or worse).
I don’t think that many teams have demonstrated winning consistency. Ones that do have developed a team culture mixed with a core group of top line players.
Never in my 50+ years of watching NRL have I seen a inexperienced team such as 2018 WT are (cobbled together with a mixture of good, average and bad) reach any great heights.
So did not and do not expect much more than we have achieved this year ..... improvement!
For all those dreamers and critics ..... ease off learn how to be patient .... and learn how to LOSE!
Wait a second..cause we have always basically sucked..we should just accept we suck and not aspire to anything good apart from the once in a 15 year on average miracle..

Mediocrity rules..

I come back to Pascoe's statement on the sacking of Jason Taylor...We as an organisation will not sit by and let another season drift by...Guess what...slip sliding away..so we should just accept it..blaaaaaaaaah
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am

OK I was wrong


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Post by Bob » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 5:15 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:28 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:17 am
Well it hasn't taken long to turn on the coach. Fraction more than half a season.

Oh! well - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
A lot of predictable wrist slitting.

See when a team is highly competitive for about 10 rounds, then much less competitive for 10 rounds, who is to blame? Is it the coach's fault for not getting the players up each and every week over 24 rounds? Or is it the player's fault for not being able to produce consistent performances week in and out.

I find it very hard to believe that a coach who got the team to 5-1 in the first 6 weeks suddenly doesn't know how to coach or build a roster. How can the strategy and game management that played so well for the first half of the year suddenly not work any more?

To me that falls on the players. There are systems in place that help us play well, defend and play tough, but they aren't being followed the past 8-10 weeks. To be smashed by Canberra and limply fall to Titans in 2 weeks separated by a bye, I can't really put that on the coach. Getting beat is one thing, getting hammered and having no fight is another, and usually that's about the players.

The real question for me is why do the players fall away? It's not the same team year on year, though we've brought a few oldies back in 2018. Sheens, Taylor, Potter, Cleary, Pearce, Lamb - that's a lot of coaches managing to follow the same game plan - start well early, finish poorly, finish just outside the finals (or worse).
I’m for Cleary and think he will be the clubs man to turn the place around. But the scenario you describe screams coaches fault. The cattle can obviously play well enough but the coach needs to put more focus on either:

A) fitness - are the players falling away mid season due to poor fitness standards to maintain intensity for the year?

B) game plan - have sides worked us out and the coach cannot adapt his game plan to a changing dynamic?

C) inspiration - is the coach not able to inspire the team to “get up” for each round

D) injuries - did the coach not develop the right player dynamic to cover for injuries.

Fundamentally I believe this year that we won the first few rounds on enthusiasm and unfortunately we don’t have the right players in place to defend against a better rehearsed team nor the attack to change the plays to a changed defensive structure.

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Post by on the hill » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 5:40 pm

momo&medo wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 2:47 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:28 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:17 am
Well it hasn't taken long to turn on the coach. Fraction more than half a season.

Oh! well - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
A lot of predictable wrist slitting.

See when a team is highly competitive for about 10 rounds, then much less competitive for 10 rounds, who is to blame? Is it the coach's fault for not getting the players up each and every week over 24 rounds? Or is it the player's fault for not being able to produce consistent performances week in and out.

I find it very hard to believe that a coach who got the team to 5-1 in the first 6 weeks suddenly doesn't know how to coach or build a roster. How can the strategy and game management that played so well for the first half of the year suddenly not work any more?

To me that falls on the players. There are systems in place that help us play well, defend and play tough, but they aren't being followed the past 8-10 weeks. To be smashed by Canberra and limply fall to Titans in 2 weeks separated by a bye, I can't really put that on the coach. Getting beat is one thing, getting hammered and having no fight is another, and usually that's about the players.

The real question for me is why do the players fall away? It's not the same team year on year, though we've brought a few oldies back in 2018. Sheens, Taylor, Potter, Cleary, Pearce, Lamb - that's a lot of coaches managing to follow the same game plan - start well early, finish poorly, finish just outside the finals (or worse).
I don’t think that many teams have demonstrated winning consistency. Ones that do have developed a team culture mixed with a core group of top line players.
Never in my 50+ years of watching NRL have I seen a inexperienced team such as 2018 WT are (cobbled together with a mixture of good, average and bad) reach any great heights.
So did not and do not expect much more than we have achieved this year ..... improvement!
For all those dreamers and critics ..... ease off learn how to be patient .... and learn how to LOSE!
You ask some interesting questions jirskyr! You're a smart bloke and you'd know that winning changes everything. Yet that's hard to do and we've hardly ever done it because we have repeated the same mistakes over and over.

Why don't we win consistently? It's lack of talent and lack of confidence working hand-in-hand. We all know that we have a team that is comparatively low on talent to nearly all other teams. So, our margin for error is low and unfortunately we make a stack of errors. Injuries have lowered our talent level further. All that can be countered somewhat by intelligence across the park, most notably earlier on with Marshall in a few games. The fact that players like Taylor, Thompson and MWZ have played so much this year is partly due to their smarts too. But we lack talent and generally always have throughout our existence.

The fall-off in performances, especially effort, is mental. New seasons are a chance to see if your off-season of training has taken your ability to a new level and the training produces confidence. We all know what confidence does for us and does against your opposition and the results backed it up. However, very few of our players have had consistent success or playing time (injuries, depth at better clubs, being part of our poo for a few years) at NRL level and the confidence is quick to be knocked. A few losses did that. Our lack of improvement is also fatal for morale; a season this long allows you to form pretty firm judgements of your team mates and I doubt many of them have confidence in each other when attacking the opposition's line at this stage. And when you're not scoring and show no signs of remedying this, compounding it with mistakes, then your resolve starts to waver during the tough stuff like defense or hit-ups. And then the belief in your defense starts to waver and then...oh boy.

Plus, our team is/was poor financially and the day-to-day reality of that eg. not getting paid your TPA, buying your own tape, lowers self-esteem. That's the same in everyday life as it is for sport. We tried to fix this twice by paying big bucks to a relatively star players in Tuqiri and Blair with fairly disastrous results, plus this hid our bigger, long-term business problems. However everyone can see that our business is being handled way better now and that has led to Mbye and Reynolds joining us. More importantly it will lead to players staying with us and being attracted to us. Nearly all of our good juniors have left for perceived better-run, more secure options.

The best players aren't just talented, they think they're better than everyone else and may actually be able to prove it. Reynolds and Mbye aren't quite at that level but we haven't recruited many of those guys in our history at all; Gareth Ellis and Tuqiri being the few. In fact our juniors have always been our most successful means of obtaining our best talent and that is simply a process that has rarely worked in the NRL due to the losses a team incurs developing those blokes and the inevitable picking of talent by richer clubs with no return to the poorer ones.

Last, we've never addressed our forward pack issues. Injuries, lack of talent, mental application, all plague us every year in that category.

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Post by Icon » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 6:13 pm

I think he knows what he's doing, but the reality is that we are still doing better than expected. We over performed at the start of the year and it created false expectations.
I actually think its been a successful year. But, dream on gentlemen, if he sticks with us I reckon top 4, 2020.
Btw, drove straight from Leichhardt and onto a plane to Japan (work), and they lost in the most incredible circumstances, put everything in perspective.

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Post by Harvey » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 8:41 pm

I don’t understand how people expected Mr 47% to come in and suddenly turn this club into a powerhouse

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Post by TYGA » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 8:52 pm

Harvey wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 8:41 pm
I don’t understand how people expected Mr 47% to come in and suddenly turn this club into a powerhouse
Give it time the joint was a basket case he recruited as best he could at the time. Probably getting the most out of this group.

Biggest issue is Reynolds injuries and long term impact. We also need to be wise and get 6 good players into this squad for 2019 and let everyone off contract go.

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Post by momo&medo » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 8:58 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 4:26 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 3:45 pm
momo&medo wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 2:47 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:28 am


A lot of predictable wrist slitting.

See when a team is highly competitive for about 10 rounds, then much less competitive for 10 rounds, who is to blame? Is it the coach's fault for not getting the players up each and every week over 24 rounds? Or is it the player's fault for not being able to produce consistent performances week in and out.

I find it very hard to believe that a coach who got the team to 5-1 in the first 6 weeks suddenly doesn't know how to coach or build a roster. How can the strategy and game management that played so well for the first half of the year suddenly not work any more?

To me that falls on the players. There are systems in place that help us play well, defend and play tough, but they aren't being followed the past 8-10 weeks. To be smashed by Canberra and limply fall to Titans in 2 weeks separated by a bye, I can't really put that on the coach. Getting beat is one thing, getting hammered and having no fight is another, and usually that's about the players.

The real question for me is why do the players fall away? It's not the same team year on year, though we've brought a few oldies back in 2018. Sheens, Taylor, Potter, Cleary, Pearce, Lamb - that's a lot of coaches managing to follow the same game plan - start well early, finish poorly, finish just outside the finals (or worse).
I don’t think that many teams have demonstrated winning consistency. Ones that do have developed a team culture mixed with a core group of top line players.
Never in my 50+ years of watching NRL have I seen a inexperienced team such as 2018 WT are (cobbled together with a mixture of good, average and bad) reach any great heights.
So did not and do not expect much more than we have achieved this year ..... improvement!
For all those dreamers and critics ..... ease off learn how to be patient .... and learn how to LOSE!
Sorry jirskyr,
But that last sentence was hilarious, I was just wondering which Wests supporter hasn’t had the most extensive lessons in losing that any sports follower could ever have, we are THE BEST. :evil:

Do we have a supporter living in a cave inLower Kurdistan who has no power, internet or any other link to any civilisation in the known world? He’d be the only one to not hear our results
We are the only sports fans anywhere who have to sign a binding agreement, that states that we have to sit an exam (with a 100% pass )stating that we are EXTREMELY great at losing.

There is no sports supporter that is better than us in losing, we can write books on it,
We can give talks to Governments on Losing, (and that’s not easy).
North Sydney ask us for tips on losing ,
All the blokes who raced Steven Bradbury were WESTS Supporters :o
And as certain proof that WT supporters are bloody good at losing ,is the fact that none were allowed in the Syndicate that owned Winx
What more evidence do you want
We’re the Best :righton:
Ease up I didn't write that, M&M did.
Yes I did write it .... and l’m afraid this guy just didn’t get it.
You poor poor suffering WT supporter. With a premiership in hand and all those dull weekends in subsequent years. Loss after loss ..... tough HUH? Hey try being a long suffering West Magpie supporter and living through those wooden spoons, pirated players, being kicked out of comp etc. etc. etc. etc.
Yep I really feel for you mate.
From someone who Learned the hard way how to Lose. And cherish all those underdog wins.
P.S. just to be clear ..... Seven other NRL sides experience it, every week.

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Post by diedpretty » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 9:23 pm

momo&medo wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 2:47 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:28 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:17 am
Well it hasn't taken long to turn on the coach. Fraction more than half a season.

Oh! well - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
A lot of predictable wrist slitting.

See when a team is highly competitive for about 10 rounds, then much less competitive for 10 rounds, who is to blame? Is it the coach's fault for not getting the players up each and every week over 24 rounds? Or is it the player's fault for not being able to produce consistent performances week in and out.

I find it very hard to believe that a coach who got the team to 5-1 in the first 6 weeks suddenly doesn't know how to coach or build a roster. How can the strategy and game management that played so well for the first half of the year suddenly not work any more?

To me that falls on the players. There are systems in place that help us play well, defend and play tough, but they aren't being followed the past 8-10 weeks. To be smashed by Canberra and limply fall to Titans in 2 weeks separated by a bye, I can't really put that on the coach. Getting beat is one thing, getting hammered and having no fight is another, and usually that's about the players.

The real question for me is why do the players fall away? It's not the same team year on year, though we've brought a few oldies back in 2018. Sheens, Taylor, Potter, Cleary, Pearce, Lamb - that's a lot of coaches managing to follow the same game plan - start well early, finish poorly, finish just outside the finals (or worse).
I don’t think that many teams have demonstrated winning consistency. Ones that do have developed a team culture mixed with a core group of top line players.
Never in my 50+ years of watching NRL have I seen a inexperienced team such as 2018 WT are (cobbled together with a mixture of good, average and bad) reach any great heights.
So did not and do not expect much more than we have achieved this year ..... improvement!
For all those dreamers and critics ..... ease off learn how to be patient .... and learn how to LOSE!
That last sentence is total nonsense - you do realise this is a WT forum made up of fans from Wests Magpies, Balmain Tigers. We would have to be the most patient fans and greatest acceptors of loss on this planet.

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Post by momo&medo » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 9:36 pm

on the hill wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 5:40 pm
momo&medo wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 2:47 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:28 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:17 am
Well it hasn't taken long to turn on the coach. Fraction more than half a season.

Oh! well - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
A lot of predictable wrist slitting.

See when a team is highly competitive for about 10 rounds, then much less competitive for 10 rounds, who is to blame? Is it the coach's fault for not getting the players up each and every week over 24 rounds? Or is it the player's fault for not being able to produce consistent performances week in and out.

I find it very hard to believe that a coach who got the team to 5-1 in the first 6 weeks suddenly doesn't know how to coach or build a roster. How can the strategy and game management that played so well for the first half of the year suddenly not work any more?

To me that falls on the players. There are systems in place that help us play well, defend and play tough, but they aren't being followed the past 8-10 weeks. To be smashed by Canberra and limply fall to Titans in 2 weeks separated by a bye, I can't really put that on the coach. Getting beat is one thing, getting hammered and having no fight is another, and usually that's about the players.

The real question for me is why do the players fall away? It's not the same team year on year, though we've brought a few oldies back in 2018. Sheens, Taylor, Potter, Cleary, Pearce, Lamb - that's a lot of coaches managing to follow the same game plan - start well early, finish poorly, finish just outside the finals (or worse).
I don’t think that many teams have demonstrated winning consistency. Ones that do have developed a team culture mixed with a core group of top line players.
Never in my 50+ years of watching NRL have I seen a inexperienced team such as 2018 WT are (cobbled together with a mixture of good, average and bad) reach any great heights.
So did not and do not expect much more than we have achieved this year ..... improvement!
For all those dreamers and critics ..... ease off learn how to be patient .... and learn how to LOSE!
You ask some interesting questions jirskyr! You're a smart bloke and you'd know that winning changes everything. Yet that's hard to do and we've hardly ever done it because we have repeated the same mistakes over and over.

Why don't we win consistently? It's lack of talent and lack of confidence working hand-in-hand. We all know that we have a team that is comparatively low on talent to nearly all other teams. So, our margin for error is low and unfortunately we make a stack of errors. Injuries have lowered our talent level further. All that can be countered somewhat by intelligence across the park, most notably earlier on with Marshall in a few games. The fact that players like Taylor, Thompson and MWZ have played so much this year is partly due to their smarts too. But we lack talent and generally always have throughout our existence.

The fall-off in performances, especially effort, is mental. New seasons are a chance to see if your off-season of training has taken your ability to a new level and the training produces confidence. We all know what confidence does for us and does against your opposition and the results backed it up. However, very few of our players have had consistent success or playing time (injuries, depth at better clubs, being part of our poo for a few years) at NRL level and the confidence is quick to be knocked. A few losses did that. Our lack of improvement is also fatal for morale; a season this long allows you to form pretty firm judgements of your team mates and I doubt many of them have confidence in each other when attacking the opposition's line at this stage. And when you're not scoring and show no signs of remedying this, compounding it with mistakes, then your resolve starts to waver during the tough stuff like defense or hit-ups. And then the belief in your defense starts to waver and then...oh boy.

Plus, our team is/was poor financially and the day-to-day reality of that eg. not getting paid your TPA, buying your own tape, lowers self-esteem. That's the same in everyday life as it is for sport. We tried to fix this twice by paying big bucks to a relatively star players in Tuqiri and Blair with fairly disastrous results, plus this hid our bigger, long-term business problems. However everyone can see that our business is being handled way better now and that has led to Mbye and Reynolds joining us. More importantly it will lead to players staying with us and being attracted to us. Nearly all of our good juniors have left for perceived better-run, more secure options.

The best players aren't just talented, they think they're better than everyone else and may actually be able to prove it. Reynolds and Mbye aren't quite at that level but we haven't recruited many of those guys in our history at all; Gareth Ellis and Tuqiri being the few. In fact our juniors have always been our most successful means of obtaining our best talent and that is simply a process that has rarely worked in the NRL due to the losses a team incurs developing those blokes and the inevitable picking of talent by richer clubs with no return to the poorer ones.

Last, we've never addressed our forward pack issues. Injuries, lack of talent, mental application, all plague us every year in that category.
It’s an interesting discussion and most opinion posted is challenging and thoughts provoking.

I think that firstly we need to accept that as a organisation and club we are relatively new kids on the block. Even as Balmain and West Magpies entities we had proud long history however over the years only moderate success. And we continue to struggle and have a hard gig trying to compete with the heavy hitters of the NRL world.

We are no powerhouses in terms of leagues club funding, junior catchment, private high profile “sugar daddy” backing or corporate sponsorships. Stuck in inner Sydney, reluctant (afraid.) to bite the bullet and relocate to outer west and do the hard yards. So yes sorry but will do it tough.

Sometimes luck is on your side and we had some .... we were blessed with a premiership when things just fell into place .... God’s were smiling on us that season and we (the supporters) the club and the team deservedly celebrated their success. However success is a fleeting thing and to search out, replicate and/or nail down that formula is something many have tryed and failed miserably to achieve.

All I can say on this blog is what I feel and that is that we have a good coach, a reasonable (starting) roster, a hard working bunch of administrators and improvement. And also say that with bit of luck this year we could have been in better position on the ladder. Those two/ three losses to Newcastle, the eels and weakened roosters hurt us badly. Loss of confidence in your ability to win just when you thought you found it can be very demoralising.

So yes back to the drawing board and hopefully better improved roster, lessons learned and luck for remainder of the year and next season. That’s my penny’s worth. But yes good discussion.

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Post by momo&medo » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 9:41 pm

diedpretty wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 9:23 pm
momo&medo wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 2:47 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:28 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:17 am
Well it hasn't taken long to turn on the coach. Fraction more than half a season.

Oh! well - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
A lot of predictable wrist slitting.

See when a team is highly competitive for about 10 rounds, then much less competitive for 10 rounds, who is to blame? Is it the coach's fault for not getting the players up each and every week over 24 rounds? Or is it the player's fault for not being able to produce consistent performances week in and out.

I find it very hard to believe that a coach who got the team to 5-1 in the first 6 weeks suddenly doesn't know how to coach or build a roster. How can the strategy and game management that played so well for the first half of the year suddenly not work any more?

To me that falls on the players. There are systems in place that help us play well, defend and play tough, but they aren't being followed the past 8-10 weeks. To be smashed by Canberra and limply fall to Titans in 2 weeks separated by a bye, I can't really put that on the coach. Getting beat is one thing, getting hammered and having no fight is another, and usually that's about the players.

The real question for me is why do the players fall away? It's not the same team year on year, though we've brought a few oldies back in 2018. Sheens, Taylor, Potter, Cleary, Pearce, Lamb - that's a lot of coaches managing to follow the same game plan - start well early, finish poorly, finish just outside the finals (or worse).
I don’t think that many teams have demonstrated winning consistency. Ones that do have developed a team culture mixed with a core group of top line players.
Never in my 50+ years of watching NRL have I seen a inexperienced team such as 2018 WT are (cobbled together with a mixture of good, average and bad) reach any great heights.
So did not and do not expect much more than we have achieved this year ..... improvement!
For all those dreamers and critics ..... ease off learn how to be patient .... and learn how to LOSE!
That last sentence is total nonsense - you do realise this is a WT forum made up of fans from Wests Magpies, Balmain Tigers. We would have to be the most patient fans and greatest acceptors of loss on this planet.
Yes I most certeanly should know and accept that, however some comments made by people make me wonder if they do?

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Post by bathursttiger » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:11 pm

Geo. wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 9:43 am
Only a 1 year extension on the table for Sue at this stage Demps..
That's 1 year too long, or is this a way of getting extra subs during a game with his HIA's?

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Post by Siamtiger » Fri 06 Jul, 2018 12:54 pm

For the first time in many years we have a stabke club , there doesnt seem to be the usual backstabbing infighting. And personal agendas that have plagued our club in recent years.
I do agree something has changed from the ipening six or so weeks everyone looked happy on the bus.
As with all football clubs noses get out of joint when new talent gets brought in.
In fairness to Ivan hes making tough decisions to better the top team.It should be said that all players in those positions early in the year were given ample time to cement there spot.
Its interesting to note some players jumping off the bus for 2019 the same guys who cant cement a spot wz and TG obviously they had a talk and Ivan suggested they are not in his plans for next year.
Ivan should be commended for fielding a competitive squad that has for most part performed above expectations.
What concerns me is the old addage about where there is smoke there is fire.
The talk about a cleary package to the rorters and now the Broncos is very interesting.
I woldnt be surprised if the old fox gould is behind both rumours as firstly to unsettle our club and secondly put some added pressure on young Nathan to get his future sorted.
I would think Ivan should be reasonably happy at this club because it would appear that the board has supported his every move on filling seats on the bus.
Its common knowlege Ivans contract and Nathans contract are due for renewal at the same time.
Is this smart cleary planning for the future or just a co incidence.
I would suggest the former.
Isnt it time now our board publicly shows some leadership and give some praise to the job Ivans doung and also show their hand in making a statement of their intentions to enter negotiations with the head coach on a new contract.
That will at least give some insight into their plans going forward and provide some stability and fend of potential suitors.
I personally top dollar should be thrown at a father son deal package we need to get on the front foit as far as that goes.
If ivan has the boards full support they should declare it publicly.
Lets be honest what coaching options are really out there grandpa bennett or ive list the plot Arthur seems like hooks about to be hooked. Could gould be making a chess move to reinstate Ivan to secure Nathan going forward.Dessie gas done his dash so realistically who would we want some names please????
There does feel somethings not quite right with the bus at the moment perhaps a midyear service is required this bye round.
I believe corey oats and pangai jr should be chased
With the good shape of the wests group its time we go after 2 stars for our club.

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Post by old boy » Fri 06 Jul, 2018 1:25 pm

momo&medo wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 2:47 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:28 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:17 am
Well it hasn't taken long to turn on the coach. Fraction more than half a season.

Oh! well - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
A lot of predictable wrist slitting.

See when a team is highly competitive for about 10 rounds, then much less competitive for 10 rounds, who is to blame? Is it the coach's fault for not getting the players up each and every week over 24 rounds? Or is it the player's fault for not being able to produce consistent performances week in and out.

I find it very hard to believe that a coach who got the team to 5-1 in the first 6 weeks suddenly doesn't know how to coach or build a roster. How can the strategy and game management that played so well for the first half of the year suddenly not work any more?

To me that falls on the players. There are systems in place that help us play well, defend and play tough, but they aren't being followed the past 8-10 weeks. To be smashed by Canberra and limply fall to Titans in 2 weeks separated by a bye, I can't really put that on the coach. Getting beat is one thing, getting hammered and having no fight is another, and usually that's about the players.

The real question for me is why do the players fall away? It's not the same team year on year, though we've brought a few oldies back in 2018. Sheens, Taylor, Potter, Cleary, Pearce, Lamb - that's a lot of coaches managing to follow the same game plan - start well early, finish poorly, finish just outside the finals (or worse).
I don’t think that many teams have demonstrated winning consistency. Ones that do have developed a team culture mixed with a core group of top line players.
Never in my 50+ years of watching NRL have I seen a inexperienced team such as 2018 WT are (cobbled together with a mixture of good, average and bad) reach any great heights.
So did not and do not expect much more than we have achieved this year ..... improvement!
For all those dreamers and critics ..... ease off learn how to be patient .... and learn how to LOSE!
I guess over those 50 years you must have slept through 2003-2005 when the Tigers were literally a team full of rejects, hasbeens and 20 game Tiger Cubs and won the bloody comp.

"For all those dreamers and critics ..... ease off learn how to be patient .... and learn how to LOSE!"

Thats got to be the comment of the year. Telling a Tigers fan to be patient!? You must have been asleep throughout the 90's as well. Its beyond belief and incredibly insulting anyone could think that about all the crap fans from Wests and Balmain have been through for the last 30 years. Besides 2005, 2010, 2011 the Wests Tigers fans have had nothing, NOTHING but loses for 3 decades. Tigers fans are the most patient, loyal fans out there with all the garbage year after year weve had to endure with this rabble. If anything youve highlighted a great example of whats wrong with some Tigers fans, prepared year after year to accept mediocrity and than get on your high horse and tell fans who have been through 30 years of crap, who just want to win a few games every now and than and maybe have a wining season for once to just "learn how to lose" when thats all weve been doing for so long. Sorry I want, I expect and after 30 years of following the Tigers I deserve better and so do you.
Careers have come and gone and the Tigers are still rebuilding. When 175 games and 7 years isnt enough, we've only been rebuilding since 2012. There's always next year and the year after that and the year after that and the year after that ...........

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Post by momo&medo » Fri 06 Jul, 2018 1:59 pm

old boy wrote:
Fri 06 Jul, 2018 1:25 pm
momo&medo wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 2:47 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:28 am
Russell wrote:
Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:17 am
Well it hasn't taken long to turn on the coach. Fraction more than half a season.

Oh! well - the more things change, the more they stay the same.
A lot of predictable wrist slitting.

See when a team is highly competitive for about 10 rounds, then much less competitive for 10 rounds, who is to blame? Is it the coach's fault for not getting the players up each and every week over 24 rounds? Or is it the player's fault for not being able to produce consistent performances week in and out.

I find it very hard to believe that a coach who got the team to 5-1 in the first 6 weeks suddenly doesn't know how to coach or build a roster. How can the strategy and game management that played so well for the first half of the year suddenly not work any more?

To me that falls on the players. There are systems in place that help us play well, defend and play tough, but they aren't being followed the past 8-10 weeks. To be smashed by Canberra and limply fall to Titans in 2 weeks separated by a bye, I can't really put that on the coach. Getting beat is one thing, getting hammered and having no fight is another, and usually that's about the players.

The real question for me is why do the players fall away? It's not the same team year on year, though we've brought a few oldies back in 2018. Sheens, Taylor, Potter, Cleary, Pearce, Lamb - that's a lot of coaches managing to follow the same game plan - start well early, finish poorly, finish just outside the finals (or worse).
I don’t think that many teams have demonstrated winning consistency. Ones that do have developed a team culture mixed with a core group of top line players.
Never in my 50+ years of watching NRL have I seen a inexperienced team such as 2018 WT are (cobbled together with a mixture of good, average and bad) reach any great heights.
So did not and do not expect much more than we have achieved this year ..... improvement!
For all those dreamers and critics ..... ease off learn how to be patient .... and learn how to LOSE!
I guess over those 50 years you must have slept through 2003-2005 when the Tigers were literally a team full of rejects, hasbeens and 20 game Tiger Cubs and won the bloody comp.

"For all those dreamers and critics ..... ease off learn how to be patient .... and learn how to LOSE!"

Thats got to be the comment of the year. Telling a Tigers fan to be patient!? You must have been asleep throughout the 90's as well. Its beyond belief and incredibly insulting anyone could think that about all the crap fans from Wests and Balmain have been through for the last 30 years. Besides 2005, 2010, 2011 the Wests Tigers fans have had nothing, NOTHING but loses for 3 decades. Tigers fans are the most patient, loyal fans out there with all the garbage year after year weve had to endure with this rabble. If anything youve highlighted a great example of whats wrong with some Tigers fans, prepared year after year to accept mediocrity and than get on your high horse and tell fans who have been through 30 years of crap, who just want to win a few games every now and than and maybe have a wining season for once to just "learn how to lose" when thats all weve been doing for so long. Sorry I want, I expect and after 30 years of following the Tigers I deserve better and so do you.
Slept through nothing old boy!

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