New coach.. Who should we target?

Wests Tigers Discussion
User avatar
jirskyr
Member
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 12:00 pm

Re: New coach.. Who should we target?

Post by jirskyr » Mon 08 Oct, 2018 11:26 pm

The Patriot wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:24 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:07 pm
Harvey wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 3:53 pm
I am not sold on Maguire. Has a similar pedigree to Potter, except he came home to a decent side.

Lost the dressing room within 2 years.
Madge is a noted overtrainer , you get results for 2 seasons and the players burn out .....
Dont you think a coach can improve?

He was sacked for that flaw. If he can accept the blame and look to improve himself i dont see why he cant become a career coach.
I agree and this was my thinking today. You can criticise Maguire but he won a comp - I'll take a few seasons of over-training if one of them jags a premiership.

But more than that, a coach can improve just as a player can, and old mistakes are not necessarily repeated. In fact he'd arguably be wiser for the experience.


Glennb
Member
Member
Posts: 874
Joined: Fri 17 Jul, 2009 4:28 pm

Post by Glennb » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 11:05 am

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 11:26 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:24 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:07 pm
Harvey wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 3:53 pm
I am not sold on Maguire. Has a similar pedigree to Potter, except he came home to a decent side.

Lost the dressing room within 2 years.
Madge is a noted overtrainer , you get results for 2 seasons and the players burn out .....
Dont you think a coach can improve?

He was sacked for that flaw. If he can accept the blame and look to improve himself i dont see why he cant become a career coach.
I agree and this was my thinking today. You can criticise Maguire but he won a comp - I'll take a few seasons of over-training if one of them jags a premiership.

But more than that, a coach can improve just as a player can, and old mistakes are not necessarily repeated. In fact he'd arguably be wiser for the experience.
Maguire was gifted the perfect tools for his rigid game plan, a massive mobile pack. I've seen no evidence that he has an effective plan B, in fact with all the talk of "over training" etc that has been given for Maguires demmise, for mine what stood out with his team is they NEVER had a plan B when plan A of running over the top of sides didnt work. Suffice to say if Maguire came to the Tigers, he would not have the personnel to adopt those tactics and would need to come up with something new.

Over 30 years of coaching Bennett has chopped, changed and adapted masterfully and his continuiing career is testimony to that fact. Of the two, I have more faith that Bennett woud be able to come up with a plan for this team.

NT Tiger
Member
Member
Posts: 3178
Joined: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 9:00 am
Location: Sitting in front of the computer (again)

Post by NT Tiger » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 11:58 am

Glennb wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 11:05 am
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 11:26 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:24 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:07 pm


Madge is a noted overtrainer , you get results for 2 seasons and the players burn out .....
Dont you think a coach can improve?

He was sacked for that flaw. If he can accept the blame and look to improve himself i dont see why he cant become a career coach.
I agree and this was my thinking today. You can criticise Maguire but he won a comp - I'll take a few seasons of over-training if one of them jags a premiership.

But more than that, a coach can improve just as a player can, and old mistakes are not necessarily repeated. In fact he'd arguably be wiser for the experience.
Maguire was gifted the perfect tools for his rigid game plan, a massive mobile pack. I've seen no evidence that he has an effective plan B, in fact with all the talk of "over training" etc that has been given for Maguires demmise, for mine what stood out with his team is they NEVER had a plan B when plan A of running over the top of sides didnt work. Suffice to say if Maguire came to the Tigers, he would not have the personnel to adopt those tactics and would need to come up with something new.

Over 30 years of coaching Bennett has chopped, changed and adapted masterfully and his continuiing career is testimony to that fact. Of the two, I have more faith that Bennett woud be able to come up with a plan for this team.
I think that is a good assessment, although I'm not really a fan of Bennett at this stage of his career.
"Quality Stupidity"

User avatar
innsaneink
Member
Member
Posts: 29714
Joined: Fri 10 Jul, 2009 9:49 pm
Location: ...ahead of you....

Post by innsaneink » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 12:42 pm

Any good coach that's new to a club I'm sure would try and play to the squads strengths whatever they may be... And build from there... I'm sure Madge would go along those lines somewhat and not try and make us another souths/power game like he did 4 years back

Tcat
Member
Member
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed 08 Aug, 2018 5:18 pm

Post by Tcat » Tue 09 Oct, 2018 2:26 pm

Glennb wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 11:05 am
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 11:26 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:24 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:07 pm


Madge is a noted overtrainer , you get results for 2 seasons and the players burn out .....
Dont you think a coach can improve?

He was sacked for that flaw. If he can accept the blame and look to improve himself i dont see why he cant become a career coach.
I agree and this was my thinking today. You can criticise Maguire but he won a comp - I'll take a few seasons of over-training if one of them jags a premiership.

But more than that, a coach can improve just as a player can, and old mistakes are not necessarily repeated. In fact he'd arguably be wiser for the experience.
Maguire was gifted the perfect tools for his rigid game plan, a massive mobile pack. I've seen no evidence that he has an effective plan B, in fact with all the talk of "over training" etc that has been given for Maguires demmise, for mine what stood out with his team is they NEVER had a plan B when plan A of running over the top of sides didnt work. Suffice to say if Maguire came to the Tigers, he would not have the personnel to adopt those tactics and would need to come up with something new.

Over 30 years of coaching Bennett has chopped, changed and adapted masterfully and his continuiing career is testimony to that fact. Of the two, I have more faith that Bennett woud be able to come up with a plan for this team.
I think our club has been blessed with fairly easy pre-seasons in the past. A bit of over training wouldnt hurt a few in the squad. They are first graders, get paid plenty of money and need to suck it up. I do hope tho that Maguire learns from the past, adopts a smarter game plan and surrounds himself with good people.


User avatar
Geo.
Member
Member
Posts: 29897
Joined: Fri 10 Jul, 2009 10:55 pm
Location: Sandy Point NSW..

Post by Geo. » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 3:58 am

innsaneink wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 12:42 pm
Any good coach that's new to a club I'm sure would try and play to the squads strengths whatever they may be... And build from there... I'm sure Madge would go along those lines somewhat and not try and make us another souths/power game like he did 4 years back
Yeah but what strengths do we have...early season success was built on grinding and turning up in d ..as you pointed out many times very hard to maintain that week to week in the NRL...
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am
OK I was wrong
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 12:13 am
I know at times I'm not always the brightest light in the kitchen

Pawsandclaws
Member
Member
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sat 20 Jun, 2015 5:53 pm

Post by Pawsandclaws » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 5:29 am

Glennb wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 11:05 am
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 11:26 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:24 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:07 pm


Madge is a noted overtrainer , you get results for 2 seasons and the players burn out .....
Dont you think a coach can improve?

He was sacked for that flaw. If he can accept the blame and look to improve himself i dont see why he cant become a career coach.
I agree and this was my thinking today. You can criticise Maguire but he won a comp - I'll take a few seasons of over-training if one of them jags a premiership.

But more than that, a coach can improve just as a player can, and old mistakes are not necessarily repeated. In fact he'd arguably be wiser for the experience.
Maguire was gifted the perfect tools for his rigid game plan, a massive mobile pack. I've seen no evidence that he has an effective plan B, in fact with all the talk of "over training" etc that has been given for Maguires demmise, for mine what stood out with his team is they NEVER had a plan B when plan A of running over the top of sides didnt work. Suffice to say if Maguire came to the Tigers, he would not have the personnel to adopt those tactics and would need to come up with something new.

Over 30 years of coaching Bennett has chopped, changed and adapted masterfully and his continuiing career is testimony to that fact. Of the two, I have more faith that Bennett woud be able to come up with a plan for this team.
I believe you have very nicely summed up Maguire's shortcomings. The best that one very fair Souths' supporter could say was that Maguire's coaching revolved around fitness. Hardly complimentary and if we go down this path disaster awaits. The Board need to take on Bennett even if it is 2020. We need his tactics, communication skills and corporate and player pulling power.

User avatar
innsaneink
Member
Member
Posts: 29714
Joined: Fri 10 Jul, 2009 9:49 pm
Location: ...ahead of you....

Post by innsaneink » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 5:29 am

I dunno....our strengths I guess are

- we scramble well but cohesion overall in defense needs work and we need to improve on tackles 1, 2 & 3.
- we can get down to the red zone easy enough but struggle for ideas once there.

Telltails
Member
Member
Posts: 2814
Joined: Fri 18 Apr, 2014 3:24 pm

Post by Telltails » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 6:11 am

Glennb wrote:
Tue 09 Oct, 2018 11:05 am
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 11:26 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:24 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Mon 08 Oct, 2018 4:07 pm


Madge is a noted overtrainer , you get results for 2 seasons and the players burn out .....
Dont you think a coach can improve?

He was sacked for that flaw. If he can accept the blame and look to improve himself i dont see why he cant become a career coach.
I agree and this was my thinking today. You can criticise Maguire but he won a comp - I'll take a few seasons of over-training if one of them jags a premiership.

But more than that, a coach can improve just as a player can, and old mistakes are not necessarily repeated. In fact he'd arguably be wiser for the experience.
Maguire was gifted the perfect tools for his rigid game plan, a massive mobile pack. I've seen no evidence that he has an effective plan B, in fact with all the talk of "over training" etc that has been given for Maguires demmise, for mine what stood out with his team is they NEVER had a plan B when plan A of running over the top of sides didnt work. Suffice to say if Maguire came to the Tigers, he would not have the personnel to adopt those tactics and would need to come up with something new.

Over 30 years of coaching Bennett has chopped, changed and adapted masterfully and his continuiing career is testimony to that fact. Of the two, I have more faith that Bennett woud be able to come up with a plan for this team.
Bennett has benefitted by consistently having access to some of the best squads/players in the modern era that have attributed to his success.
He will be taking on a team and club at nearly 70 that doesnt resemble anything close to what he is accustomed to, and on massive dollars.
Wrong timing for us IMO and the level of expectation on him to produce will be extreme.
We should be considering what his performance was like at Newcastle because the Broncos as an organisation and talent pool are light years away from where we are - and my recollection was a frustrated and angry coach.
Without discounting anything that eithet coach has achieved critiquing Maguire as being gifted with the perfect squad seems to be a bit one sided when you consider what Bennett has had access to continously throughout his career.

tiga4eva
Member
Member
Posts: 2071
Joined: Sun 27 Sep, 2009 8:09 pm

Post by tiga4eva » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 6:26 am

Sheens came here after an unsuccessful stint at the Cows. Many said “he can’t Coach without Stuart,Daley,Clyde, Meninga”etc. Only half of the current crop of NRL. Coaches have won a Premiership. Coachs can reinvent themselves

User avatar
GNR4LIFE
Member
Member
Posts: 22855
Joined: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 5:57 pm

Post by GNR4LIFE » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 6:46 am

Ever notice the people who always dispute Bennett as the greatest coach ever because of the luxuries he's had, never offer up an alternative. Same goes with Bellamy. Very fast to shoot them down, but very slow to offer up anyone better.

User avatar
Geo.
Member
Member
Posts: 29897
Joined: Fri 10 Jul, 2009 10:55 pm
Location: Sandy Point NSW..

Post by Geo. » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 7:00 am

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Wed 17 Oct, 2018 6:46 am
Ever notice the people who always dispute Bennett as the greatest coach ever because of the luxuries he's had, never offer up an alternative. Same goes with Bellamy. Very fast to shoot them down, but very slow to offer up anyone better.
Jack Gibson always left Clubs in a better state than he found them...
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am
OK I was wrong
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 12:13 am
I know at times I'm not always the brightest light in the kitchen

Snake
Member
Member
Posts: 5216
Joined: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 5:37 pm

Post by Snake » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 7:07 am

Surely Madge has evolved his coaching techniques? He would have to be careful not to overtrain as there are a few well paid players that are week to week as it is hammies etc. I am a bit sceptical about whether he is the right fit for the roster atm , is Madge a one trick pony?... Bennett brings more to the club off the park and has shown he can adapt to what he has to work with.

Tcat
Member
Member
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed 08 Aug, 2018 5:18 pm

Post by Tcat » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 7:11 am

I'd like to think that if we destined to sign Madge, that he would have learnt from his past mistakes like most people do in life. People are bagging him based on mistakes he made at Souths but he won a premiership there and appears have a high expectation of the team which more than Cleary has ever done (for God sake the bloke couldn't even decide on one captain or know what his top squad was). Whether its Madge or Bennett it will be a serious upgrade on what we are used to as WTs supporters.

User avatar
GNR4LIFE
Member
Member
Posts: 22855
Joined: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 5:57 pm

Post by GNR4LIFE » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 7:18 am

Geo. wrote:
Wed 17 Oct, 2018 7:00 am
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Wed 17 Oct, 2018 6:46 am
Ever notice the people who always dispute Bennett as the greatest coach ever because of the luxuries he's had, never offer up an alternative. Same goes with Bellamy. Very fast to shoot them down, but very slow to offer up anyone better.
Jack Gibson always left Clubs in a better state than he found them...
So has Bennett. Newcastle was on Tinkler, not him.

User avatar
GNR4LIFE
Member
Member
Posts: 22855
Joined: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 5:57 pm

Post by GNR4LIFE » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 7:22 am

Tcat wrote:
Wed 17 Oct, 2018 7:11 am
I'd like to think that if we destined to sign Madge, that he would have learnt from his past mistakes like most people do in life. People are bagging him based on mistakes he made at Souths but he won a premiership there and appears have a high expectation of the team which more than Cleary has ever done (for God sake the bloke couldn't even decide on one captain or know what his top squad was). Whether its Madge or Bennett it will be a serious upgrade on what we are used to as WTs supporters.
This. Really don't get why it matters what he did wrong at Souths. If you focused on every coaches downfall at their previous clubs, you'd never give them a job again. He at least deserves a shot at redemption before being written off. He's a premiership winning coach, they don't come along everyday.

Telltails
Member
Member
Posts: 2814
Joined: Fri 18 Apr, 2014 3:24 pm

Post by Telltails » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 7:24 am

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Wed 17 Oct, 2018 6:46 am
Ever notice the people who always dispute Bennett as the greatest coach ever because of the luxuries he's had, never offer up an alternative. Same goes with Bellamy. Very fast to shoot them down, but very slow to offer up anyone better.
No not really. The current discussion I thought was not disputing whether Bennett is the best coach ever, but rather which coach is the best candidate for the WTs now - going forward.
Within that discussion comparisons between the two reported candidates will be made and the factors that attributed to, or effected their performances have been raised.
I get the impression that most fans will be happy with either, while some prefer one over the other.

jadtiger
Forum Suppoter
Forum Suppoter
Posts: 3577
Joined: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 8:12 am
Location: bayview

Post by jadtiger » Wed 17 Oct, 2018 7:26 am

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Wed 17 Oct, 2018 7:18 am
Geo. wrote:
Wed 17 Oct, 2018 7:00 am
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Wed 17 Oct, 2018 6:46 am
Ever notice the people who always dispute Bennett as the greatest coach ever because of the luxuries he's had, never offer up an alternative. Same goes with Bellamy. Very fast to shoot them down, but very slow to offer up anyone better.
Jack Gibson always left Clubs in a better state than he found them...
So has Bennett. Newcastle was on Tinkler, not him.
Dragons supporters would disagree Bennett left them in a mess also

Post Reply