New coach.. Who should we target?

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Nelson
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Re: New coach.. Who should we target?

Post by Nelson » Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:05 pm

gallagher wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:31 pm
Nelson wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:09 pm
The_Doc wrote:
Fri 05 Oct, 2018 3:12 pm
I can see it being Penrith will just pay Cleary what he's getting from us for the next two seasons no more no less we wont get any compensation. The only other thing we can do is put Cleary on gardening leave and hope Penrith come to the party, Cleary has really boxed us into a corner i hope he falls flat on his face.
Not really. It's a negotiation. We can see what the best case scenario is for them and it's Ivan in 2019. They have the financial clout to achieve their best case scenario. They would be stupid not to pursue their best case scenario given they are in a premiership window. We are a road block to their best case scenario. We require compensation to remove ourselves as a road block.

On the other side of the coin they know we don't want a dead duck coach - that's not best case scenario for us. But they are the ones who initiated this; they are the ones who really can't afford to squander two years; and they are the ones with the sacks full of cash.

If we play hard ball they will pay. It may not be a huge amount but they will pay because it's better for them to cough up some cash to get what they really want than to try to put one over another club.
It will come down to who is the better negotiator. Gus will have the power to make a call and tell the board what has happened. Pascoe won't have that authority.
Yeah but negotiation is ultimately about getting what you want, not screwing the other party as hard as you can. Cleary can say he's happy to see out his contract but that's an obvious lie. It does him no good in a negotiation. He does not want to spend two years with a team that's unlikely to perform for him, with a hostile player base and a set of fans that revile him. He wants to go.

Penrith do not want to spend two years with a rookie coach who is then going to be removed for Cleary regardless of his performance. They want Cleary now.

We do not want Cleary, but nor do we want to be in a position where we end up with a worse coach for the next two years. To get a coach of equivalent standing is going to cost more than it would cost us to just keep Cleary so we should insist on the Panthers paying the difference. That's a fair position to take. We don't try to screw them, we just try to make sure that we are not left any worse off by what they've done. We know they have the money to pay, they are not a hard up club. That's the balance line in this negotiation we just need to make all parties acknowledge it.


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Post by Needaname » Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:07 pm

helmesy wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:35 pm


Check this video out, well worth a watch.
Thanks for posting that.
He definitely got some wisdom and you can understand his aura.
That was one of the years whilst he was coach of the dragons?
Was the player he was referring to Nevil Costigan?

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Post by gallagher » Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:14 pm

Nelson wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:05 pm
gallagher wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:31 pm
Nelson wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:09 pm
The_Doc wrote:
Fri 05 Oct, 2018 3:12 pm
I can see it being Penrith will just pay Cleary what he's getting from us for the next two seasons no more no less we wont get any compensation. The only other thing we can do is put Cleary on gardening leave and hope Penrith come to the party, Cleary has really boxed us into a corner i hope he falls flat on his face.
Not really. It's a negotiation. We can see what the best case scenario is for them and it's Ivan in 2019. They have the financial clout to achieve their best case scenario. They would be stupid not to pursue their best case scenario given they are in a premiership window. We are a road block to their best case scenario. We require compensation to remove ourselves as a road block.

On the other side of the coin they know we don't want a dead duck coach - that's not best case scenario for us. But they are the ones who initiated this; they are the ones who really can't afford to squander two years; and they are the ones with the sacks full of cash.

If we play hard ball they will pay. It may not be a huge amount but they will pay because it's better for them to cough up some cash to get what they really want than to try to put one over another club.
It will come down to who is the better negotiator. Gus will have the power to make a call and tell the board what has happened. Pascoe won't have that authority.
Yeah but negotiation is ultimately about getting what you want, not screwing the other party as hard as you can. Cleary can say he's happy to see out his contract but that's an obvious lie. It does him no good in a negotiation. He does not want to spend two years with a team that's unlikely to perform for him, with a hostile player base and a set of fans that revile him. He wants to go.

Penrith do not want to spend two years with a rookie coach who is then going to be removed for Cleary regardless of his performance. They want Cleary now.

We do not want Cleary, but nor do we want to be in a position where we end up with a worse coach for the next two years. To get a coach of equivalent standing is going to cost more than it would cost us to just keep Cleary so we should insist on the Panthers paying the difference. That's a fair position to take. We don't try to screw them, we just try to make sure that we are not left any worse off by what they've done. We know they have the money to pay, they are not a hard up club. That's the balance line in this negotiation we just need to make all parties acknowledge it.
Absolutley agree. I'm just worried Gus' ego and possibly Pascoe wanting to get one up one him geting in the way.. Being a former employee.

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Post by sheer64 » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 1:11 am

Well looks like it wont be Bennett, so we may have dust off the crystal ball to find our new coach.
Arise Sir Waste Anasta, Tool of the highest order!

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Post by Balmainbred » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 1:52 am

I’d say we’re stuck with Cleary for 2 more years. If we pay him to sit on the hill or what ever he’s still going to cost us. Tell me would you want to come here and coach in this “ turbulent” place.


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Post by bathursttiger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 7:18 am

If the Broncos don’t release Bennett and we sign Maguire that limits their choice of coach in ‘20.
If Sebold remains at Souths then the Broncos are screwed for a top line coach.
I think this coaching merry-go-round is a long way off being sorted, with a few more twists and turns still to come.

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 7:40 am

I wouldn't rule out Cleary staying put in 2019. We have a coach contracted. We don't have to release him if there are not any credible replacements.

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 7:44 am

Balmainbred wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 1:52 am
I’d say we’re stuck with Cleary for 2 more years. If we pay him to sit on the hill or what ever he’s still going to cost us. Tell me would you want to come here and coach in this “ turbulent” place.
Bennett probably would rather be unemployed. From the outside looking in, you wouldn't blame him.

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Post by jadtiger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:30 am

Harvey wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:35 pm
I am worried that having a coach of Bennett's age at the tigers could end badly.

A couple of fade outs or throwing away a lead could lead to blood pressure or coronary issues.
It certainly leads to mine

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Post by TYGA » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:15 am

Bennett is told he is not wanted and shows up and gives a sermon. Cleary hides and let’s Gus and media stooges do the talking.

Never thought I would say this but Benny Elias got one thing right. The silence is disgraceful the head coach has a responsibility to address the issues but he has gone to ground. What a disgrace, lack of leadership, backbone and a complete phony lacking courage. I think you can see why Bennett has 7 premierships. Cleary has done more damage than JT.

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Post by supercoach » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:24 am

TYGA wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:15 am
Bennett is told he is not wanted and shows up and gives a sermon. Cleary hides and let’s Gus and media stooges do the talking.

Never thought I would say this but Benny Elias got one thing right. The silence is disgraceful the head coach has a responsibility to address the issues but he has gone to ground. What a disgrace, lack of leadership, backbone and a complete phony lacking courage. I think you can see why Bennett has 7 premierships. Cleary has done more damage than JT.
Pascoe has also been very quite, so do we question his reputation to. To be honest I think there is a lot of horse trading going on in the back ground and they have erected the cone of silence till they have this mess sorted. Yes Cleary reputation in my eyes has taken a massive hit, but I would not read to much into his silence, he would be under starters orders

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:54 am

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 7:40 am
I wouldn't rule out Cleary staying put in 2019. We have a coach contracted. We don't have to release him if there are not any credible replacements.
Can you imagine the response from the playing group to his call for commitment, loyalty, solidarity and being the player your team mates want to play with after what has transpired? His authority within the dressing room would surely take a massive hit. Further, do you believe there may be an internal conflict if a hugely talented young centre is identified and IC wants to sign him up but for which team? Does he sign him up to the one he desperately wants to leave or does he arrange for him to be signed up to the team he wants to be with?

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Post by gallagher » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:59 am

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:54 am
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 7:40 am
I wouldn't rule out Cleary staying put in 2019. We have a coach contracted. We don't have to release him if there are not any credible replacements.
Can you imagine the response from the playing group to his call for commitment, loyalty, solidarity and being the player your team mates want to play with after what has transpired? His authority within the dressing room would surely take a massive hit. Further, do you believe there may be an internal conflict if a hugely talented young centre is identified and IC wants to sign him up but for which team? Does he sign him up to the one he desperately wants to leave or does he arrange for him to be signed up to the team he wants to be with?
Yeah, he can't be here next year under any circumstances. It would become another circus year.

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Post by Harvey » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 11:14 am

Which NRL clubs has Ivan not coached or played at?

Manly, Roosters, Norths, Warriors, Penrith, Wests.

Can never argue loyalty was a strong point

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Post by Russell » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 11:44 am

Neil Henry will do me for a coach.

Better than Maguire and Barrett and don't think Bennett will make it too us next year.

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Post by Harvey » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 11:53 am

I have no idea who we should target as a coach.

Bennett has the runs on the board, but usually as a result of a roster that other coaches would kill for.

Madge and Henry have both been suggested to have lost the playing group due to workloads or communication.

I am not sure that we have the finances, facilities or roster to make us attractive to a coach with other opportunities.

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Post by supercoach » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 12:55 pm

I have said before that I would love the club to sign one of the few highly regarded next generation coaches, but I am not sure we have the roster that would lend itself to a new coach. Bit like rookie players need plenty of quality around them to fast track there development, I think the same apples to rookie coaches.

So I guess it’s Bennett or McGuire, both will come with a big price tag but what’s the choice

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Post by Telltails » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 1:18 pm

supercoach wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:24 am
TYGA wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:15 am
Bennett is told he is not wanted and shows up and gives a sermon. Cleary hides and let’s Gus and media stooges do the talking.

Never thought I would say this but Benny Elias got one thing right. The silence is disgraceful the head coach has a responsibility to address the issues but he has gone to ground. What a disgrace, lack of leadership, backbone and a complete phony lacking courage. I think you can see why Bennett has 7 premierships. Cleary has done more damage than JT.
Pascoe has also been very quite, so do we question his reputation to. To be honest I think there is a lot of horse trading going on in the back ground and they have erected the cone of silence till they have this mess sorted. Yes Cleary reputation in my eyes has taken a massive hit, but I would not read to much into his silence, he would be under starters orders
Given the current situation the relationship between Pascoe and Cleary must be very strained - and cant see them effectively working together next year - different goals.

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