2019 Coaching saga -Thread

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Telltails
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Re: 2019 Coaching saga -Thread

Post by Telltails » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:51 pm

Tigerdave wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:16 pm
TrueTiger wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 8:57 am
I see it like this.....

Ivan wants to coach his son sometime in the future.....

Nathan signs long term with Penrith for the next 5 years...

Ivan (if true) signs with Penrith from 2021....

Ivan states he will honour his contract to keep coaching WTs until 2020....
He then goes to Penrith to coach Nathan in 2021...

I cant see the drama that everybody is in hysterics about,Ivan will continue meeting his obligations under the terms of his contract and remain professional in doing so...

This is the NRL...these things happen....people get to emotional and wrapped up in speculation and inuendos...

If Ivan goes weather he is released or otherwise,I will keep paying my membership and following the WTs as I have since 2000,,, not a problem to me....
That's how I feel as well, can't see the drama, it's not like we're the only club at the moment going through the coaching thing anyway, Penrith, Broncos, Souths and Manly......it's all currently up in the air with them too.
I guess if there was no drama our CEO wouldnt be actively trying to secure a new coach for next season.
While Pascoe says he wont release Cleary unless they can upgrade, if half of what is being reported is true, there is plenty going on to try and make that happen sooner rather than later. That suggests to me - Ivan wants out, and so do we - so Im hoping Pascoe makes it happen asap.
Last edited by Telltails on Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Fade To Black
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Post by Fade To Black » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:52 pm

Russell wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 9:50 am
Fade To Black wrote:
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 11:18 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 10:13 pm
Nelson wrote:
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 10:06 pm


It's not about Cleary "dogging it". He can be as professional as he likes and it won't matter because the players just won't respond to him in the same way as before. The players will also have a ready-made excuse for failing and that's one thing players never need. The media will be death riding the club the whole year wanting to see it fail under Cleary. It would be a disastrous season and we don't need that.
Yeah I have stated the same Nelson , but if it means getting Bennett its win /win long term

Especially if the club comes out and announces Bennett

Bennett and Pascoe can then tell any players they won't accept mediocrity and if it is offered by the players contracts will be torn up

Bennett is a far better option than Maguire , he will bring sponsors and will help with big name recruitment , our two biggest weaknesses
I'm no marketing guru but I struggle to understand how having a sour, miserable git who always looks like he has been force-fed a turd sandwich would help attract sponsors. He is bordering on being an embarrassment in front of the media. Publicity would have to be the only reason surely?
Because he is the best coach in the NRL - with the runs on the board.
Highly debatable that he is the best coach in the NRL IMO.
He HSS had a successful career with squads that have had a ridiculous amount of talent in them (in all probability operating outside the salary cap to allow so many rep players in them) The 1998 and 2000 premiership teams were basically the QLD and Australian teams. He certainly will not have that luxury at WT.
The big worry about an egotist like Bennett is that in the few seasons where his clubs have struggled (his last years at Newcastle and St George) he has basically pulled the pin and left the clubs in the lurch. Pretty certain supporters of both those clubs would not think too fondly of him- even though the Dragons got the '10 title (thanks largely to some extremely favourable refereeing during the finals).
If Wayne did coach here (I doubt he will risk his reputation to take on our seemingly never-ending dramas) there is a good chance that after a few months he will just put us in the "too hard basket" and bail out on his contract ala Newcastle.

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Post by Fade To Black » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:59 pm

Telltails wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:51 pm
Tigerdave wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:16 pm
TrueTiger wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 8:57 am
I see it like this.....

Ivan wants to coach his son sometime in the future.....

Nathan signs long term with Penrith for the next 5 years...

Ivan (if true) signs with Penrith from 2021....

Ivan states he will honour his contract to keep coaching WTs until 2020....
He then goes to Penrith to coach Nathan in 2021...

I cant see the drama that everybody is in hysterics about,Ivan will continue meeting his obligations under the terms of his contract and remain professional in doing so...

This is the NRL...these things happen....people get to emotional and wrapped up in speculation and inuendos...

If Ivan goes weather he is released or otherwise,I will keep paying my membership and following the WTs as I have since 2000,,, not a problem to me....
That's how I feel as well, can't see the drama, it's not like we're the only club at the moment going through the coaching thing anyway, Penrith, Broncos, Souths and Manly......it's all currently up in the air with them too.
I guess if there was no drama our CEO wouldnt be actively trying to secure a new coach for next season.
While Pascoe says he wont release Cleary unless they can upgrade, he seems to be doing everything possible to make that happen. That spells out plenty to me i.e. - Ivan wants out, and so do we - so Im hoping Pascoe makes it happen asap.
This sums the situation up perfectly. Don't need a bloke here who's main focus from hereon in will be which players he needs to get to Penrith in order for his bubba to get a premiership ring. Hopefully Pascoe has more brains than people on here who are happy to let Ivan sink the WT ship over the next 2 years.

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Post by WT2K » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 2:00 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:14 pm
WT2K wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 10:34 am
Geo. wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 9:12 am
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 9:00 am


Bennett is the only choice. If we don't go with him, even if it means waiting a year we deserve everything we get. That so many associate "tough" with Maguire and do so as a positive astounds me. Toughness isn't being inflexible or shouting, gesticulating or demonstrating anger. That should be far behind us and we should be striving for corporate dollars, new players who improve out tream and a respected coach with a proven record of success oveer a long period.
Let's say Wayne actually doesn't want to come has a good year at the Broncos and decided he had enough as hypothetical...

Which Coach with a proven record of success over a long period should we target...?
Shane Flanagan just to see the meltdown on the forum.
In my opinion if Flanagan became available he jumps ahead of Madge ......

Look at the players he has attracted after the abortion Cronulla had been from 2010-2013

Might be a DH but results are on the board 184 games 101 wins
Same for me. Would be my second option after Bennett.
No more plodders!
:sign:

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Post by mightymagpie » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 2:09 pm

TrueTiger wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 8:57 am
I see it like this.....

Ivan wants to coach his son sometime in the future.....

Nathan signs long term with Penrith for the next 5 years...

Ivan (if true) signs with Penrith from 2021....

Ivan states he will honour his contract to keep coaching WTs until 2020....
He then goes to Penrith to coach Nathan in 2021...

I cant see the drama that everybody is in hysterics about,Ivan will continue meeting his obligations under the terms of his contract and remain professional in doing so...

This is the NRL...these things happen....people get to emotional and wrapped up in speculation and inuendos...

If Ivan goes weather he is released or otherwise,I will keep paying my membership and following the WTs as I have since 2000,,, not a problem to me....
I agree with the first part of this. I think Ivan honestly thinks he can continue to coach WT for the next 2 seasons and do his best before switching to the Panthers in 2021. Personally I think he has been honest with his dealings and it’s just the hysteria in the media that has made this situation such a mess.

That said I think it’s a bit naive for him to think he can just carry on as normal at WT if he had indeed signed a contract or signalled his intent to be elsewhere in 2021. And that’s the way Pascoe and the board see it as well and are thus keen to move him on so long as we achieve a good outcome with a new coach.

I would like to see Bennett here but would also like the club plan further ahead by appointing someone as assistant who they see would take over in 3 or 4 years time.


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Post by Tigerdave » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 2:35 pm

Telltails wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:51 pm
Tigerdave wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:16 pm
TrueTiger wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 8:57 am
I see it like this.....

Ivan wants to coach his son sometime in the future.....

Nathan signs long term with Penrith for the next 5 years...

Ivan (if true) signs with Penrith from 2021....

Ivan states he will honour his contract to keep coaching WTs until 2020....
He then goes to Penrith to coach Nathan in 2021...

I cant see the drama that everybody is in hysterics about,Ivan will continue meeting his obligations under the terms of his contract and remain professional in doing so...

This is the NRL...these things happen....people get to emotional and wrapped up in speculation and inuendos...

If Ivan goes weather he is released or otherwise,I will keep paying my membership and following the WTs as I have since 2000,,, not a problem to me....
That's how I feel as well, can't see the drama, it's not like we're the only club at the moment going through the coaching thing anyway, Penrith, Broncos, Souths and Manly......it's all currently up in the air with them too.
I guess if there was no drama our CEO wouldnt be actively trying to secure a new coach for next season.
While Pascoe says he wont release Cleary unless they can upgrade, if half of what is being reported is true, there is plenty going on to try and make that happen sooner rather than later. That suggests to me - Ivan wants out, and so do we - so Im hoping Pascoe makes it happen asap.
The only drama is being generated by the media.

There's nothing to suggest Cleary wants out now.

He wasn't signed on with us for 2021, there was no guarantee he would have been until the end of next season depending on how we went.

The whole "untenable" position thing seems more of a beat up to me. I think the other clubs are in slightly worse positions, the Bronco's are stuck with a coach they don't want and they have players potentially leaving or at least thinking of leaving with him. Manly can't get anyone to coach them. The Bunnies with all their current clout can't keep their coach and the Panthers coach knows he's on borrowed time.

In the end, if he goes now he goes, so what? The club is doing its due diligence by all accounts. There's a couple of good replacements potentially available, I see it more as the club being pro-active rather than IC wanting out now.

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Post by Tigerdave » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 2:46 pm

Fade To Black wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:59 pm
Telltails wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:51 pm
Tigerdave wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:16 pm
TrueTiger wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 8:57 am
I see it like this.....

Ivan wants to coach his son sometime in the future.....

Nathan signs long term with Penrith for the next 5 years...

Ivan (if true) signs with Penrith from 2021....

Ivan states he will honour his contract to keep coaching WTs until 2020....
He then goes to Penrith to coach Nathan in 2021...

I cant see the drama that everybody is in hysterics about,Ivan will continue meeting his obligations under the terms of his contract and remain professional in doing so...

This is the NRL...these things happen....people get to emotional and wrapped up in speculation and inuendos...

If Ivan goes weather he is released or otherwise,I will keep paying my membership and following the WTs as I have since 2000,,, not a problem to me....
That's how I feel as well, can't see the drama, it's not like we're the only club at the moment going through the coaching thing anyway, Penrith, Broncos, Souths and Manly......it's all currently up in the air with them too.
I guess if there was no drama our CEO wouldnt be actively trying to secure a new coach for next season.
While Pascoe says he wont release Cleary unless they can upgrade, he seems to be doing everything possible to make that happen. That spells out plenty to me i.e. - Ivan wants out, and so do we - so Im hoping Pascoe makes it happen asap.
This sums the situation up perfectly. Don't need a bloke here who's main focus from hereon in will be which players he needs to get to Penrith in order for his bubba to get a premiership ring. Hopefully Pascoe has more brains than people on here who are happy to let Ivan sink the WT ship over the next 2 years.
As opposed to the Bronco's who have arguably better coach they don't want who definitely has players re-considering their own positions at the club and yet the Broncs don't seem too concerned about all that sinking their ship.

As if a coach is going to go out of their way to "sink" a club they are currently at for starters as well as reduce their own win/loss rate and IC's isn't all that great to begin with.

The problem is this conspiracy theory that a coach of all people would sabotage the club he's currently at is ludicrous. Could he take players at the end of it all? Yes, that's at least plausible, but to do much else is a massive stretch.

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Post by happy tiger » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 3:21 pm

Tigerdave wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 2:46 pm
Fade To Black wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:59 pm
Telltails wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:51 pm
Tigerdave wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:16 pm


That's how I feel as well, can't see the drama, it's not like we're the only club at the moment going through the coaching thing anyway, Penrith, Broncos, Souths and Manly......it's all currently up in the air with them too.
I guess if there was no drama our CEO wouldnt be actively trying to secure a new coach for next season.
While Pascoe says he wont release Cleary unless they can upgrade, he seems to be doing everything possible to make that happen. That spells out plenty to me i.e. - Ivan wants out, and so do we - so Im hoping Pascoe makes it happen asap.
This sums the situation up perfectly. Don't need a bloke here who's main focus from hereon in will be which players he needs to get to Penrith in order for his bubba to get a premiership ring. Hopefully Pascoe has more brains than people on here who are happy to let Ivan sink the WT ship over the next 2 years.
As opposed to the Bronco's who have arguably better coach they don't want who definitely has players re-considering their own positions at the club and yet the Broncs don't seem too concerned about all that sinking their ship.

As if a coach is going to go out of their way to "sink" a club they are currently at for starters as well as reduce their own win/loss rate and IC's isn't all that great to begin with.

The problem is this conspiracy theory that a coach of all people would sabotage the club he's currently at is ludicrous. Could he take players at the end of it all? Yes, that's at least plausible, but to do much else is a massive stretch.
I'm not sure they don't Bennett , they just really want to keep Paul White ,arguably the best CEO in the NRL

Having Bennett and White together was creating a toxic environment that was starting to effect the playing group to the extent of creating sides as was seen in BBQgate

The players inadvertently sunk Bennett

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Post by jirskyr » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 3:23 pm

Fade To Black wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 2:19 am
jirskyr wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:24 am
Fade To Black wrote:
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 2:14 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 10:52 am

How is that any different to Bennett Broncos 2019 or Seibold Rabbitohs 2019?
Firstly, i couldnt give a rat's about Brisbane or Souths, my only concern is our club.
Brisbane and Souths are both powerhouses of the competition on the field with an endless stream of brilliant youngsters in their clubs and supremely powerful off the field with massive amounts of cash being tipped in from the Thoroughbreds and Rusty Crowd: there is absolutely no chance they will become laughing stocks of the NRL. We on the other hand struggle on the field (have done for a looooong time now), run on the smell of an oily rag off the field because we have no money, and have huge difficulty enticing quality players to come here. Plus our juniors are largely pus, we can't just promote from within we need to be able to attract talent from outside.
With all this crap innuendo and uncertainty surrounding our club, a minnow club, no players are going to be frothing to come here. That is what I am worried about.
I'm sorry you lost me when you said Souths were a powerhouse. In the late 60s yes, but I don't know what side you've been watching for the past 30 years - occasional finals contenders at best.

Anyway the point isn't comparing the "powerhouseyness" of clubs, the point is comparing the mentality or reality of having a coach who is potentally leaving the club after the current season. Seibold has confirmed interviewed with Broncos for the 2020 job, which means he is definitely interested in leaving Souths after 2019. Seibold has definitely rejected initial attempts for a contract extension at Souths, which is nearly unheard of for a rookie head coach.

So why is that any different from Cleary? In fact, at least Cleary has 2 more years to run on his Tigers deal, so theoretically more time to invest in a playing strategy, sign players etc. If Cleary is untenable, then Seibold must be 97% untenable at Souths also.
Are you trying to say that Souths are not in a better position than WT on the field then? They went within a game of the GF this year didn't they (I can't remember precisely). They won a premiership only 4 years ago. They have extremely talented youngsters on their books in Douhi, Murray and that winger. They have one of the best forwards in the comp in Sam Burgess. They are miles ahead of us on the field. And off the field they have a bottomless pit of cash thanks to Russell Crowe.
They will be right in the running for a premiership in the next 3 or 4 years. Will WT? Not bloody likely.
Compared to us they are a powerhouse.
Their coaching situation has been handled much better than the pig's breakfast that the WT's coaching soap-opera has become. If Seibold leaves, Souths will have no problem whatsoever attracting a top-line coach. Their club is seen as a desirable destination for coaches and players. Safe to say our club isn't.
Are Souths closer to a premiership than Tigers? Arguably yes.

However Souths finished 12th and 12th in 2016 to 2017. The man who turned them around in 2018 = Seibold. He's odds-on to be leaving very soon. So I wouldn't be putting my eggs in the Souths basket when their ace rookie coach is about to be poached by a real competition powerhouse. Broncos haven't won a comp in 12 years but in all other aspects they are the true powerhouse of the league.

Has the Seibold been handled better? No, I can't see how you can say that. Same deal - a wealthy club trying to pinch your coach a few years in advance and then make his current contract "untenable". You think Souths are happy that Seibold is holding them off? They gave him a chance, took a punt with a rookie coach; he may have got that chance elsewhere, but the minute the gamble has paid off, Seibold has moved to upgrade his deal at another club.

Rusty Crowe is not a bottomless pit of money, you have no idea. He's reportedly worth $75-95M. Nick Politis is worth $1.35B, now that's where you can start talking about money pits.

And you say Souths will have no problem attracting a top-line coach... if so why did they hire a rookie for 2018? By all reports they are looking at recalling David Furner or another rookie if Seibold goes.

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Post by Telltails » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 3:29 pm

Tigerdave wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 2:46 pm
Fade To Black wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:59 pm
Telltails wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:51 pm
Tigerdave wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:16 pm


That's how I feel as well, can't see the drama, it's not like we're the only club at the moment going through the coaching thing anyway, Penrith, Broncos, Souths and Manly......it's all currently up in the air with them too.
I guess if there was no drama our CEO wouldnt be actively trying to secure a new coach for next season.
While Pascoe says he wont release Cleary unless they can upgrade, he seems to be doing everything possible to make that happen. That spells out plenty to me i.e. - Ivan wants out, and so do we - so Im hoping Pascoe makes it happen asap.
This sums the situation up perfectly. Don't need a bloke here who's main focus from hereon in will be which players he needs to get to Penrith in order for his bubba to get a premiership ring. Hopefully Pascoe has more brains than people on here who are happy to let Ivan sink the WT ship over the next 2 years.
As opposed to the Bronco's who have arguably better coach they don't want who definitely has players re-considering their own positions at the club and yet the Broncs don't seem too concerned about all that sinking their ship.

As if a coach is going to go out of their way to "sink" a club they are currently at for starters as well as reduce their own win/loss rate and IC's isn't all that great to begin with.

The problem is this conspiracy theory that a coach of all people would sabotage the club he's currently at is ludicrous. Could he take players at the end of it all? Yes, that's at least plausible, but to do much else is a massive stretch.
I dont think its about sabotage, its about if he can continue to effectively do the job that he was brought in to do, and that was rebuild our club. If the CEO is actively looking to replace him with two years to go on his contract - the man most responsible for employing him - that suggests that he is questioning his ability to do so - as far as Im concerned.

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Post by Earl » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 3:33 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 10:48 am
cochise wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 10:37 am
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 7:54 am
Fade To Black wrote:
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 11:12 pm


If Bennett is off-contract for 2020 (and provided he wants to coach WT), why would Webster or Hodgson have to coach for at least 2 years? We only need them for 1 season in that scenario.
Yes we would, which is why it’s the exact scenario I have been advocating for weeks to happen.
Why would we be making a commitment for at least 2 years?
Deadset, this is giving me a headache.

Let me spell it out as simply as I can

I would only support someone like Hodgson or Webster if they were being used in 2019 to warm the chair for Bennett. I would not be in favour of signing them if both Maguire and Bennett say no to us and that’s all we are left with. In that scenario I would hold onto Cleary and reassess at the end of 2019.
I hope the club takes this position. We need to try and act calmly and professionally.

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Post by Fade To Black » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 4:06 pm

Tigerdave wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 2:46 pm
Fade To Black wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:59 pm
Telltails wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:51 pm
Tigerdave wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:16 pm


That's how I feel as well, can't see the drama, it's not like we're the only club at the moment going through the coaching thing anyway, Penrith, Broncos, Souths and Manly......it's all currently up in the air with them too.
I guess if there was no drama our CEO wouldnt be actively trying to secure a new coach for next season.
While Pascoe says he wont release Cleary unless they can upgrade, he seems to be doing everything possible to make that happen. That spells out plenty to me i.e. - Ivan wants out, and so do we - so Im hoping Pascoe makes it happen asap.
This sums the situation up perfectly. Don't need a bloke here who's main focus from hereon in will be which players he needs to get to Penrith in order for his bubba to get a premiership ring. Hopefully Pascoe has more brains than people on here who are happy to let Ivan sink the WT ship over the next 2 years.
As opposed to the Bronco's who have arguably better coach they don't want who definitely has players re-considering their own positions at the club and yet the Broncs don't seem too concerned about all that sinking their ship.

As if a coach is going to go out of their way to "sink" a club they are currently at for starters as well as reduce their own win/loss rate and IC's isn't all that great to begin with.

The problem is this conspiracy theory that a coach of all people would sabotage the club he's currently at is ludicrous. Could he take players at the end of it all? Yes, that's at least plausible, but to do much else is a massive stretch.
Because the Broncos wouldn't want to lose young, good players such as TPJ, Oates etc. If they sacked Bennett immediately they would be forced to pay him out and more importantly probably lose TPJ, Oates etc who may/may not have clauses in their contracts allowing them to leave if Bennett isn't the coach.

People that think it will all be roses if Ivan coaches WT in 2019 and 2020 are kidding themselves. Fans will be rabidly wanting Ivan's head on a stake after 3 or 4 losses, the innuendo will damage our club immeasurably also. Th media are going to be all over our club once the losses pile up without a doubt.
Just cannot see 1 single positive of having Cleary coach us anymore.

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Post by Geo. » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 4:39 pm

Telltails wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 3:29 pm
Tigerdave wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 2:46 pm
Fade To Black wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:59 pm
Telltails wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:51 pm


I guess if there was no drama our CEO wouldnt be actively trying to secure a new coach for next season.
While Pascoe says he wont release Cleary unless they can upgrade, he seems to be doing everything possible to make that happen. That spells out plenty to me i.e. - Ivan wants out, and so do we - so Im hoping Pascoe makes it happen asap.
This sums the situation up perfectly. Don't need a bloke here who's main focus from hereon in will be which players he needs to get to Penrith in order for his bubba to get a premiership ring. Hopefully Pascoe has more brains than people on here who are happy to let Ivan sink the WT ship over the next 2 years.
As opposed to the Bronco's who have arguably better coach they don't want who definitely has players re-considering their own positions at the club and yet the Broncs don't seem too concerned about all that sinking their ship.

As if a coach is going to go out of their way to "sink" a club they are currently at for starters as well as reduce their own win/loss rate and IC's isn't all that great to begin with.

The problem is this conspiracy theory that a coach of all people would sabotage the club he's currently at is ludicrous. Could he take players at the end of it all? Yes, that's at least plausible, but to do much else is a massive stretch.
I dont think its about sabotage, its about if he can continue to effectively do the job that he was brought in to do, and that was rebuild our club. If the CEO is actively looking to replace him with two years to go on his contract - the man most responsible for employing him - that suggests that he is questioning his ability to do so - as far as Im concerned.
This is 100% correct IMO as well... With reports emerging now that the players are disappointed tells me Ivan won't be here next year...

Why would the CEO even need to look at other options had the landscape not changed....

Green Mile...
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am
OK I was wrong
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 12:13 am
I know at times I'm not always the brightest light in the kitchen

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Post by Spud Murphy » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 4:47 pm

TrueTiger wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 8:57 am
I see it like this.....

Ivan wants to coach his son sometime in the future.....

Nathan signs long term with Penrith for the next 5 years...

Ivan (if true) signs with Penrith from 2021....

Ivan states he will honour his contract to keep coaching WTs until 2020....
He then goes to Penrith to coach Nathan in 2021...

I cant see the drama that everybody is in hysterics about,Ivan will continue meeting his obligations under the terms of his contract and remain professional in doing so...

This is the NRL...these things happen....people get to emotional and wrapped up in speculation and inuendos...

If Ivan goes weather he is released or otherwise,I will keep paying my membership and following the WTs as I have since 2000,,, not a problem to me....
I agree with you True Tiger and I can't see why it couldn't work out this way either, but the fact that our club (not the fans) is actively pursuing another coach for next season and beyond means that the whole scenario is emotional and it seems that it has become untenable for Cleary to see out his contract here. It's not the just the constant media speculation and emotion shown by many of the supporters that we're hearing about, it's actually taking place for real at the club. Obviously, there is more to it than we may know.

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Post by Fade To Black » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 4:52 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 3:23 pm
Fade To Black wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 2:19 am
jirskyr wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:24 am
Fade To Black wrote:
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 2:14 pm


Firstly, i couldnt give a rat's about Brisbane or Souths, my only concern is our club.
Brisbane and Souths are both powerhouses of the competition on the field with an endless stream of brilliant youngsters in their clubs and supremely powerful off the field with massive amounts of cash being tipped in from the Thoroughbreds and Rusty Crowd: there is absolutely no chance they will become laughing stocks of the NRL. We on the other hand struggle on the field (have done for a looooong time now), run on the smell of an oily rag off the field because we have no money, and have huge difficulty enticing quality players to come here. Plus our juniors are largely pus, we can't just promote from within we need to be able to attract talent from outside.
With all this crap innuendo and uncertainty surrounding our club, a minnow club, no players are going to be frothing to come here. That is what I am worried about.
I'm sorry you lost me when you said Souths were a powerhouse. In the late 60s yes, but I don't know what side you've been watching for the past 30 years - occasional finals contenders at best.

Anyway the point isn't comparing the "powerhouseyness" of clubs, the point is comparing the mentality or reality of having a coach who is potentally leaving the club after the current season. Seibold has confirmed interviewed with Broncos for the 2020 job, which means he is definitely interested in leaving Souths after 2019. Seibold has definitely rejected initial attempts for a contract extension at Souths, which is nearly unheard of for a rookie head coach.

So why is that any different from Cleary? In fact, at least Cleary has 2 more years to run on his Tigers deal, so theoretically more time to invest in a playing strategy, sign players etc. If Cleary is untenable, then Seibold must be 97% untenable at Souths also.
Are you trying to say that Souths are not in a better position than WT on the field then? They went within a game of the GF this year didn't they (I can't remember precisely). They won a premiership only 4 years ago. They have extremely talented youngsters on their books in Douhi, Murray and that winger. They have one of the best forwards in the comp in Sam Burgess. They are miles ahead of us on the field. And off the field they have a bottomless pit of cash thanks to Russell Crowe.
They will be right in the running for a premiership in the next 3 or 4 years. Will WT? Not bloody likely.
Compared to us they are a powerhouse.
Their coaching situation has been handled much better than the pig's breakfast that the WT's coaching soap-opera has become. If Seibold leaves, Souths will have no problem whatsoever attracting a top-line coach. Their club is seen as a desirable destination for coaches and players. Safe to say our club isn't.
Are Souths closer to a premiership than Tigers? Arguably yes.

However Souths finished 12th and 12th in 2016 to 2017. The man who turned them around in 2018 = Seibold. He's odds-on to be leaving very soon. So I wouldn't be putting my eggs in the Souths basket when their ace rookie coach is about to be poached by a real competition powerhouse. Broncos haven't won a comp in 12 years but in all other aspects they are the true powerhouse of the league.

Has the Seibold been handled better? No, I can't see how you can say that. Same deal - a wealthy club trying to pinch your coach a few years in advance and then make his current contract "untenable". You think Souths are happy that Seibold is holding them off? They gave him a chance, took a punt with a rookie coach; he may have got that chance elsewhere, but the minute the gamble has paid off, Seibold has moved to upgrade his deal at another club.

Rusty Crowe is not a bottomless pit of money, you have no idea. He's reportedly worth $75-95M. Nick Politis is worth $1.35B, now that's where you can start talking about money pits.

And you say Souths will have no problem attracting a top-line coach... if so why did they hire a rookie for 2018? By all reports they are looking at recalling David Furner or another rookie if Seibold goes.
In your opinion Souths are "arguably" in a better position than WT to win a premiership? :lol: 999 people out of 1000 would say there is no argument. We couldn't even make the 8 and are stuck paying gems like Chris McQueen good coin for the next year or 2....... you beaut!!
Souths appointed Seibold because he was very highly rated by most good judges involved in the game. Besides, are you able to name any top-line coaches that were available at the start of 2018? Pretty sure there weren't any.
And Rusty's $90 million isn't a bottomless pit? Where I come from it's not a bad start. Poor bugger.....I will be sure to send him a rescue package of milk arrowroot's and fresh water if the unlucky bloke is doing it tough scraping by on meagre coin like that. You only had to hear every player from the Rabbits rave about how much of a difference his presence/business contacts and accumen made to their club in 2014. Nothing would have changed there, they wouldn't have as much clout as a club if he didn't have his finger in the pie business-wise.

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Post by WT2K » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 4:54 pm

In regards to one of the potential dominoesin this coaching circus
No more plodders!
:sign:

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Post by Fade To Black » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 5:03 pm

mightymagpie wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 2:09 pm
TrueTiger wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 8:57 am
I see it like this.....

Ivan wants to coach his son sometime in the future.....

Nathan signs long term with Penrith for the next 5 years...

Ivan (if true) signs with Penrith from 2021....

Ivan states he will honour his contract to keep coaching WTs until 2020....
He then goes to Penrith to coach Nathan in 2021...

I cant see the drama that everybody is in hysterics about,Ivan will continue meeting his obligations under the terms of his contract and remain professional in doing so...

This is the NRL...these things happen....people get to emotional and wrapped up in speculation and inuendos...

If Ivan goes weather he is released or otherwise,I will keep paying my membership and following the WTs as I have since 2000,,, not a problem to me....
I agree with the first part of this. I think Ivan honestly thinks he can continue to coach WT for the next 2 seasons and do his best before switching to the Panthers in 2021. Personally I think he has been honest with his dealings and it’s just the hysteria in the media that has made this situation such a mess.

That said I think it’s a bit naive for him to think he can just carry on as normal at WT if he had indeed signed a contract or signalled his intent to be elsewhere in 2021. And that’s the way Pascoe and the board see it as well and are thus keen to move him on so long as we achieve a good outcome with a new coach.

I would like to see Bennett here but would also like the club plan further ahead by appointing someone as assistant who they see would take over in 3 or 4 years time.
Can't agree that Ivan has been honest in his dealings. He had a secret meeting with powrrbrokers from Penrith while under contract to WT (I know that it is allowed under NRL rules for an under-contract coach to negotiate with other clubs). He kept this to himself until it was made public knowledge through the media and then he had the "integrity" to inform our club. After he had been outed, not beforehand. He is a rat whose integrity will be questioned for many years to come. Hope he crashes and burns at Penrith and is left unemployable in the NRL, that would be karma.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 21 Oct, 2018 5:07 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:30 pm
cochise wrote:
Sun 21 Oct, 2018 1:16 pm

I agree 100%, our luck would be that we sign him and then he dies next year while we are waiting for him.
Our luck?
What about Bennets?
Maybe he wouldn’t just die!
Maybe he’d jumpoff a cliff in frustration at coaching us.
I bet a couple of our previous coaches thought about it at times.

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