2019 Coaching saga -Thread

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Nucky Thompson
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Re: 2019 Coaching saga -Thread

Post by Nucky Thompson » Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:06 pm

Masterton wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:02 pm
WT2K wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:59 pm
Nucky Thompson wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:51 pm
WT2K wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:48 pm

Is he having a pint with Maguire or Bennett..
Read thinks Broncos are next on the list to appoint a coach.
Last candidate for the donkeys interviewed today. Hopefully they announce something this week.
You get the feeling they know everyone is waiting on them and take a certain pleasure from it.
Given seibold hasn't re-signed with rabbits means a sure thing at broncs


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Post by WT2K » Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:13 pm

Masterton wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:02 pm
WT2K wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:59 pm
Nucky Thompson wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:51 pm
WT2K wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:48 pm

Is he having a pint with Maguire or Bennett..
Read thinks Broncos are next on the list to appoint a coach.
Last candidate for the donkeys interviewed today. Hopefully they announce something this week.
You get the feeling they know everyone is waiting on them and take a certain pleasure from it.
No doubt they're enjoying it. Seibold the favourite for them which is no surprise.
No more plodders!
:sign:

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:15 pm

Telltails wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 9:09 am
TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 8:20 am
Geo. wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 7:10 am
TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 7:06 am


The thing is GEO,Ivan signed a 3 year contract,if he fulfils his obligations under that agreement then he has done absolutely nothing wrong by signing to coach Riff in 2021...he did say he would honour his contract....therein lies the commitment...
So no need for Pascoe to look at replacements..cool
Pascoe can do as he likes including sacking Ivan,however all the dislike toward Ivan because he has signed with Penrith for 2021 is unwarrented if he wants to honour his contract at WTs,he hasnt walked out or said he is leaving now...
Odd for a man who is committed to a club to go missing when his position is being openly shopped around to two high profile replacements - unless of course he has an alternative.
What I think is really odd , is that the club , who is the only player in all this ,who can throw some light on what’s happening. isn’t saying anything at all. The one person who has said plainly what he intends to do is Cleary , when he said that he would be honouring his contract.. yet a lot here ,is still saying that Ivan has gone missing.
He’s stated what he will be doing, what more do some of us want,
I think its gone past the time, that the club started to tell their membership just what do THEY intend to do.
We have Pascoe running around the world doing what???
Finding a new Coach?? If that’s the case it’s taken a bloody long time,!
Maybe we need a new CEO if Pascoe can’t work any quicker than this, or is it a case of no one wants to come here unless we’re the only club left.
The only people who can say anything at the moment is the club, and they are playing no speaks,
The longer it goes on, the club looks more like a Marx Brothers outfit.

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Post by TIGERPOWER » Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:23 pm

jadtiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:04 pm
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:51 pm
jadtiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:40 pm
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:26 pm


The club has told us Ivan asked for a release and it was rejected. Pascoe has also told us that his relationship with Ivan Cleary has been fractured, what more do you want the club to say. They aren’t going to give us an update on how their negotiations with possibly 2 coaches and the panthers are going.
The club has NOT stated Ivan has asked for a release and was rejected.The club stated IF he asked for a release it would be rejected.A statement with a completely different meaning to what you claim.I know nothing about the actual state of affairs regarding the coaching.Everything else is speculation which some people wallow in
"As we expressed to Ivan this morning, the position of the club — and it's a really strong position — is that the club is going to fight for this. Under no circumstances will we be granting Ivan Cleary a release," Tigers chief executive Justin Pascoe said on Tuesday night.

Why would they need to express to Ivan any of this if he didn’t want to be released? Would be pretty strange I think.
That still does not mean he has asked for a release imo
So why did Pascoe tell us the club will fight for this. If Ivan didn’t want to go, there is nothing for Pascoe to fight.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:36 pm

formerguest wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:35 pm
TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:15 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:06 pm
TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 9:34 pm


AVO and Patriots hate for Ivan is overwhelming without knowledge from the club....dont make this all about what you guys want...its the nrl and anything is possible...

Can you honestly say Pascoe is acting like a CEO who knows his coach is committed to the cause. I just cant see how you cant justify that statement.
Ivan signed for 3 years initially,after that he can do what he likes...you and avo are making it personal without getting confirmation from the club....I will wait until I here from Pascoe and the club before I start talking things such as untenable,he is a dog ,he is off the bus...so much immaturity without facts...
Geez TT, Ivan wanted (and virtually undoubtedly still wants) to leave us to go to Penrith, not at the expiration if his WT contract, but now and told Pascoe and the club just that. That he was originally told in no uncertain terms that he would not be allowed to leave, even if he officially requested a release, doesn't stop the club from changing it's stance, nor does it alter the fact that he dogged us.

The only problem is referring to him as a dog, because they are almost always the most loyal creatures, something that Ivan has shown himself to be sadly lacking, despite espousing such values as a requirement for his players.
FG, Any chance you can let us know where you saw that Ivan was quoted as saying that he wants to leave here NOW?
There’s been nothing like that that I’ve seen or heard.
It seems that you are just putting words into Clearys mouth to suit your argument,
If hes going to honour his contract, as he said he would,
Why are you saying that he’s dogging us
So far as I can see so far, he’s done nothing wrong , that could change, but so far he hasn’t
Last edited by goldcoast tiger on Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Post by Telltails » Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:37 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:15 pm
Telltails wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 9:09 am
TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 8:20 am
Geo. wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 7:10 am

So no need for Pascoe to look at replacements..cool
Pascoe can do as he likes including sacking Ivan,however all the dislike toward Ivan because he has signed with Penrith for 2021 is unwarrented if he wants to honour his contract at WTs,he hasnt walked out or said he is leaving now...
Odd for a man who is committed to a club to go missing when his position is being openly shopped around to two high profile replacements - unless of course he has an alternative.
What I think is really odd , is that the club , who is the only player in all this ,who can throw some light on what’s happening. isn’t saying anything at all. The one person who has said plainly what he intends to do is Cleary , when he said that he would be honouring his contract.. yet a lot here ,is still saying that Ivan has gone missing.
He’s stated what he will be doing, what more do some of us want,
I think its gone past the time, that the club started to tell their membership just what do THEY intend to do.
We have Pascoe running around the world doing what???
Finding a new Coach?? If that’s the case it’s taken a bloody long time,!
Maybe we need a new CEO if Pascoe can’t work any quicker than this, or is it a case of no one wants to come here unless we’re the only club left.
The only people who can say anything at the moment is the club, and they are playing no speaks,
The longer it goes on, the club looks more like a Marx Brothers outfit.
Reading a written statement with no questions is not what I consider saying something plainly GCT. It was an exercise in damage control as far as Im concerned, and Ivan has been untouchable since.
If the club was backing Ivan allowing these rumours to take hold like they have, and damage his reputation with the fans and players, would be the dumbest move we have made in a longtime.
The big fear for me - maybe paranoia - but for all the talk of getting either Bennett or Madge - that neither want the job and we will be left with a coach that wants out, and a CEO who tried to make it happen but couldnt.
Not an ideal way to start the season..but if that's where we are headed they better start publically backing Cleary soon.

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Post by jirskyr » Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:43 pm

Glennb wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 5:41 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 1:40 pm

Maybe I did go back too far in my analysis, but TPAs were introduced in 2006. So let's look at Souths since 2006 - 1 premiership, 1 wooden spoon, Top 4 3 other times, 7th twice, 6 other seasons without finals. So they make the finals 7/13 = 54% or just over half the seasons.
That is rubbish. TPA's were not introduced in 2006. TPA's just are....always have been and always will be. In 2006 the NRL introduced rules and restrictions regarding TPA's that are linked to the club but there have never been any rules or restrictions regarding TPA's that have nothing to do with the club, never was, never will and never should there be.

This blew up when Craig Wing was at the Roosters early in his career. NRL stepped in about his salary because he was earning a lot more than Roosters were paying him, but the majority of his income was from Foxtel because he (on his own merit) had jagged a gig on a fashion show (unrelated to league).

Basically, like anyone else in this (so far) reasonably free country if you want to supplement your income there is no restriction outside of your current employer. If player X gets a gig as a public speaker or similar, it doesnt and never will be part of the cap.
You are splitting hairs. I never said the "concept" of a non-salary agreement never existed before. We were discussing the performance of NRL clubs within the current TPA rules and regulations, i.e. since 2006.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:49 pm

A written statement actually is saying something clearly TT. , and sometimes used when someone wants to say something that he doesn’t want to be taken the wrong way, or another partynhas been throwing legal threats around, ,
Just because you want him to say something else, doesn’t change the fact that he couldn’t be clearer than he was
Last edited by goldcoast tiger on Tue 23 Oct, 2018 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by tiger_one » Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:52 pm

WT2K wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:48 pm
Yossarian wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:42 pm
avocadoontoast wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 9:54 pm
TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 9:34 pm


AVO and Patriots hate for Ivan is overwhelming without knowledge from the club....dont make this all about what you guys want...its the nrl and anything is possible...
Thanks TT. Can you please clarify why he was in NZ then? That’d be great.
Has it been confirmed that he was in NZ? Apparently he's in the UK now. I'm sure you can work out he's not just there for the sights.
Is he having a pint with Maguire or Bennett..
Has to be Maguire; Uncle Benny is a tee-totaller.

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Post by formerguest » Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:56 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:36 pm
formerguest wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:35 pm
TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:15 pm
The Patriot wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:06 pm



Can you honestly say Pascoe is acting like a CEO who knows his coach is committed to the cause. I just cant see how you cant justify that statement.
Ivan signed for 3 years initially,after that he can do what he likes...you and avo are making it personal without getting confirmation from the club....I will wait until I here from Pascoe and the club before I start talking things such as untenable,he is a dog ,he is off the bus...so much immaturity without facts...
Geez TT, Ivan wanted (and virtually undoubtedly still wants) to leave us to go to Penrith, not at the expiration if his WT contract, but now and told Pascoe and the club just that. That he was originally told in no uncertain terms that he would not be allowed to leave, even if he officially requested a release, doesn't stop the club from changing it's stance, nor does it alter the fact that he dogged us.

The only problem is referring to him as a dog, because they are almost always the most loyal creatures, something that Ivan has shown himself to be sadly lacking, despite espousing such values as a requirement for his players.
FG, Any chance you can let us know where you saw that Ivan was quoted as saying that he wants to leave here NOW?
There’s been nothing like that that I’ve seen or heard.
It seems that you are just putting words into Clearys mouth to suit your argument,
If hes going to honour his contract, as he said he would,
Why are you saying that he’s dogging us
So far as I can see so far, he’s done nothing wrong , that could change, but so far he hasn’t
Yeah, you're argument has plenty of legs, he has done nothing, the club simply weren't prepared to release Cleary upon his contract finishing in 2020 and his relationship with Pascoe has been affected by Ivan wanting to leave when he was entitled to.

Your argument is nonsensical and you know it.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 23 Oct, 2018 12:05 am

TIGERPOWER wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:23 pm
jadtiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:04 pm
TIGERPOWER wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:51 pm
jadtiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:40 pm


The club has NOT stated Ivan has asked for a release and was rejected.The club stated IF he asked for a release it would be rejected.A statement with a completely different meaning to what you claim.I know nothing about the actual state of affairs regarding the coaching.Everything else is speculation which some people wallow in
"As we expressed to Ivan this morning, the position of the club — and it's a really strong position — is that the club is going to fight for this. Under no circumstances will we be granting Ivan Cleary a release," Tigers chief executive Justin Pascoe said on Tuesday night.

Why would they need to express to Ivan any of this if he didn’t want to be released? Would be pretty strange I think.
That still does not mean he has asked for a release imo
So why did Pascoe tell us the club will fight for this. If Ivan didn’t want to go, there is nothing for Pascoe to fight.
In order to sound like he has control over Cleary,
iF Cleary asked for a release, why wouldn’t Pascoe have simply said in his release that “Ivan asked for a release”

He didn’t say that,,,,,,,,,,wHY.?
it would actually been more damming for Ivan , and he was obviously trying to make Cleary look as bad as he could
And even Go didn’t mention it , and after all it would have made the clubs position a lot better if he had said that,

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 23 Oct, 2018 12:26 am

formerguest wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:56 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:36 pm
formerguest wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:35 pm
TrueTiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:15 pm


Ivan signed for 3 years initially,after that he can do what he likes...you and avo are making it personal without getting confirmation from the club....I will wait until I here from Pascoe and the club before I start talking things such as untenable,he is a dog ,he is off the bus...so much immaturity without facts...
Geez TT, Ivan wanted (and virtually undoubtedly still wants) to leave us to go to Penrith, not at the expiration if his WT contract, but now and told Pascoe and the club just that. That he was originally told in no uncertain terms that he would not be allowed to leave, even if he officially requested a release, doesn't stop the club from changing it's stance, nor does it alter the fact that he dogged us.

The only problem is referring to him as a dog, because they are almost always the most loyal creatures, something that Ivan has shown himself to be sadly lacking, despite espousing such values as a requirement for his players.
FG, Any chance you can let us know where you saw that Ivan was quoted as saying that he wants to leave here NOW?
There’s been nothing like that that I’ve seen or heard.
It seems that you are just putting words into Clearys mouth to suit your argument,
If hes going to honour his contract, as he said he would,
Why are you saying that he’s dogging us
So far as I can see so far, he’s done nothing wrong , that could change, but so far he hasn’t
Yeah, you're argument has plenty of legs, he has done nothing, the club simply weren't prepared to release Cleary upon his contract finishing in 2020 and his relationship with Pascoe has been affected by Ivan wanting to leave when he was entitled to.

Your argument is nonsensical and you know it.
You almost answered your own post
He hasnt broken any NRL rules, or commercial laws or rules , or any contractual law or even any WTs rules.
His relationship with Pascoe is something that’s between them,
I’d be happy to change my mind if you can tell me what has he done wrong.l

I’m not asking about what you don’t like. Simply what has he done WRONG ,or what Law, rule,or regulation has he broken

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Post by Telltails » Tue 23 Oct, 2018 12:45 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:49 pm
A written statement actually is saying something clearly TT. , and sometimes used when someone wants to say something that he doesn’t want to be taken the wrong way, or another partynhas been throwing legal threats around, ,
Just because you want him to say something else, doesn’t change the fact that he couldn’t be clearer than he was
Understood why they did it GCT but didnt buy it then, and still dont buy it now.
An exercise in damage control imo -and refusing questions offered no transparency.
I think that prepared statement is given way too much recognition, in view of recent events.
If Ivan does coach next year its time the club hosed down the rumours but until that happens it all points to a club and a coach who would rather part ways.
Last edited by Telltails on Tue 23 Oct, 2018 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by happy tiger » Tue 23 Oct, 2018 12:47 am

tiger_one wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:52 pm
WT2K wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:48 pm
Yossarian wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:42 pm
avocadoontoast wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 9:54 pm


Thanks TT. Can you please clarify why he was in NZ then? That’d be great.
Has it been confirmed that he was in NZ? Apparently he's in the UK now. I'm sure you can work out he's not just there for the sights.
Is he having a pint with Maguire or Bennett..
Has to be Maguire; Uncle Benny is a tee-totaller.
Benny is a self confessed chocaholic

Get Darrell Lea on board , he won't be able to resist

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Post by formerguest » Tue 23 Oct, 2018 12:48 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 23 Oct, 2018 12:26 am
formerguest wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:56 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:36 pm
formerguest wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:35 pm


Geez TT, Ivan wanted (and virtually undoubtedly still wants) to leave us to go to Penrith, not at the expiration if his WT contract, but now and told Pascoe and the club just that. That he was originally told in no uncertain terms that he would not be allowed to leave, even if he officially requested a release, doesn't stop the club from changing it's stance, nor does it alter the fact that he dogged us.

The only problem is referring to him as a dog, because they are almost always the most loyal creatures, something that Ivan has shown himself to be sadly lacking, despite espousing such values as a requirement for his players.
FG, Any chance you can let us know where you saw that Ivan was quoted as saying that he wants to leave here NOW?
There’s been nothing like that that I’ve seen or heard.
It seems that you are just putting words into Clearys mouth to suit your argument,
If hes going to honour his contract, as he said he would,
Why are you saying that he’s dogging us
So far as I can see so far, he’s done nothing wrong , that could change, but so far he hasn’t
Yeah, you're argument has plenty of legs, he has done nothing, the club simply weren't prepared to release Cleary upon his contract finishing in 2020 and his relationship with Pascoe has been affected by Ivan wanting to leave when he was entitled to.

Your argument is nonsensical and you know it.
You almost answered your own post
He hasnt broken any NRL rules, or commercial laws or rules , or any contractual law or even any WTs rules.
His relationship with Pascoe is something that’s between them,
I’d be happy to change my mind if you can tell me what has he done wrong.l

I’m not asking about what you don’t like. Simply what has he done WRONG ,or what Law, rule,or regulation has he broken
Rubbish, I have never mentioned legality and his actions have not been affected by what I may, or, may not like.

If you now think one expecting more of their subordinates than of themselves, and especially when having portrayed otherwise publicly is not wrong, then fine, but I expect that is not the case

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Post by tiger05premier » Tue 23 Oct, 2018 1:50 am

cqtiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 4:41 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 4:26 pm
cqtiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 4:20 pm
prattenparkchild wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 3:55 pm
This worries me.
If true, it means that both Madge and Bennett do not want to come here.

Therefore, Ivan’s contract stands and if he wants to go to Penrith, it will cost them $500k for us to release him.
I don't read it that way at all. I think if true it's saying you created this mess, you want it,you stump up some money.
PPC, if the rumours are true about a coaching merry-go-round, then each club (broncos, souths, tigers, panthers) would be willing to release a coach early to get the one they want. Now we ask for $500k on top of early release? All the cards fall down.

I’ve been wrong before :cry:
Maybe we always have. Maybe we have Madge locked down and we're like "well, we're set Gus and Ivan, when you're ready to come to the table with some dosh we're ready to let Ivan walk."
We can’t have Madge ‘locked down’ CB as that implies he’s signed a contract. Cleary is legally our coach until 2020.

All Penrith have to do is say were not paying $500k we will wait another two years for IC and all of a sudden we are screwed. At best, Madge has verbally agreed terms awaiting the MGR
[/quote]
Than IC might miss his chance at winning a premiership with NC

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Post by Geo. » Tue 23 Oct, 2018 2:19 am

It's come to arguing about what happened at the beginning of this whole saga...all I know is houses were lost lol ha lol..
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
happy tiger wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2018 12:17 am

OK I was wrong

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 23 Oct, 2018 4:21 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 23 Oct, 2018 12:26 am
formerguest wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:56 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 11:36 pm
formerguest wrote:
Mon 22 Oct, 2018 10:35 pm


Geez TT, Ivan wanted (and virtually undoubtedly still wants) to leave us to go to Penrith, not at the expiration if his WT contract, but now and told Pascoe and the club just that. That he was originally told in no uncertain terms that he would not be allowed to leave, even if he officially requested a release, doesn't stop the club from changing it's stance, nor does it alter the fact that he dogged us.

The only problem is referring to him as a dog, because they are almost always the most loyal creatures, something that Ivan has shown himself to be sadly lacking, despite espousing such values as a requirement for his players.
FG, Any chance you can let us know where you saw that Ivan was quoted as saying that he wants to leave here NOW?
There’s been nothing like that that I’ve seen or heard.
It seems that you are just putting words into Clearys mouth to suit your argument,
If hes going to honour his contract, as he said he would,
Why are you saying that he’s dogging us
So far as I can see so far, he’s done nothing wrong , that could change, but so far he hasn’t
Yeah, you're argument has plenty of legs, he has done nothing, the club simply weren't prepared to release Cleary upon his contract finishing in 2020 and his relationship with Pascoe has been affected by Ivan wanting to leave when he was entitled to.

Your argument is nonsensical and you know it.
You almost answered your own post
He hasnt broken any NRL rules, or commercial laws or rules , or any contractual law or even any WTs rules.
His relationship with Pascoe is something that’s between them,
I’d be happy to change my mind if you can tell me what has he done wrong.l

I’m not asking about what you don’t like. Simply what has he done WRONG ,or what Law, rule,or regulation has he broken
And if you can tell me where you saw or heard him say that He was wanting to leave NOW, that would be appreciated.

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