Memo to Ivan Cleary

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fibrodreaming
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Re: Memo to Ivan Cleary

Post by fibrodreaming » Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:21 pm

Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
Ivan has made a decision that is in his own best financial interests. I can't blame him for that - although I believe that he had to compromise his standards of integrity to achieve this outcome.

But, your assertions about the "real" world are simply not true. I am sure that if you worked in a competitive industry with lots of secret intelligence, and a colleague of yours who was tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years, declared that, in two years time, they were joining a rival organisation, their employer would take steps to remove them or, at least, move them off-line.

I am happy to be corrected, but I don't recall an NRL coach signing a contract to coach a team in two years time. The only reason the Panthers and Cleary have done so is to force the Tigers into releasing Ivan for the 2019 season. It is duplicitous for Ivan to say that he intends to honour his contract. He knows that he has put the Tigers in an impossible position.

I believe that Tiger's supporters have every right to feel disappointed and angry.


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Post by fibrodreaming » Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:21 pm

Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
Ivan has made a decision that is in his own best financial interests. I can't blame him for that - although I believe that he had to compromise his standards of integrity to achieve this outcome.

But, your assertions about the "real" world are simply not true. I am sure that if you worked in a competitive industry with lots of secret intelligence, and a colleague of yours who was tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years, declared that, in two years time, they were joining a rival organisation, their employer would take steps to remove them or, at least, move them off-line.

I am happy to be corrected, but I don't recall an NRL coach signing a contract to coach a team in two years time. The only reason the Panthers and Cleary have done so is to force the Tigers into releasing Ivan for the 2019 season. It is duplicitous for Ivan to say that he intends to honour his contract. He knows that he has put the Tigers in an impossible position.

I believe that Tiger's supporters have every right to feel disappointed and angry.

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Post by fibrodreaming » Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:21 pm

Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
Ivan has made a decision that is in his own best financial interests. I can't blame him for that - although I believe that he had to compromise his standards of integrity to achieve this outcome.

But, your assertions about the "real" world are simply not true. I am sure that if you worked in a competitive industry with lots of secret intelligence, and a colleague of yours who was tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years, declared that, in two years time, they were joining a rival organisation, their employer would take steps to remove them or, at least, move them off-line.

I am happy to be corrected, but I don't recall an NRL coach signing a contract to coach a team in two years time. The only reason the Panthers and Cleary have done so is to force the Tigers into releasing Ivan for the 2019 season. It is duplicitous for Ivan to say that he intends to honour his contract. He knows that he has put the Tigers in an impossible position.

I believe that Tiger's supporters have every right to feel disappointed and angry.

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Post by fibrodreaming » Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:21 pm

Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
Ivan has made a decision that is in his own best financial interests. I can't blame him for that - although I believe that he had to compromise his standards of integrity to achieve this outcome.

But, your assertions about the "real" world are simply not true. I am sure that if you worked in a competitive industry with lots of secret intelligence, and a colleague of yours who was tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years, declared that, in two years time, they were joining a rival organisation, their employer would take steps to remove them or, at least, move them off-line.

I am happy to be corrected, but I don't recall an NRL coach signing a contract to coach a team in two years time. The only reason the Panthers and Cleary have done so is to force the Tigers into releasing Ivan for the 2019 season. It is duplicitous for Ivan to say that he intends to honour his contract. He knows that he has put the Tigers in an impossible position.

I believe that Tiger's supporters have every right to feel disappointed and angry.

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Post by innsaneink » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 12:01 am

Spud Murphy wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:06 pm
tigerap wrote:
Fri 05 Oct, 2018 11:52 pm
I know players(NC admitted as much) and some coaches read fan forums...so here goes:



Dear Ivan,

After the Wests Tigers threw you a coaching lifeline, after Gus Gould dumped you in 2015, you talked up that you intend to rebuild the club, change its culture to a winning one, you gave the fans hope that you committed for the long haul.

In 2017 you coined the phrase “on the bus”, that became your mantra, players had a choice to either get on the bus or off it!. You let 3 promising juniors off the bus at the nearest bus stop as you felt they were not committed to the club. You convinced a number of players from other clubs to hop on the bus long term as you gave them a vision of a long term commitment and rebuilding programme, they bought into your vision and mantra.

You were given full reins of the football club by our CEO and Board, Marina Go openly stated that you have full ownership of the clubs roster and if you wanted to bring your son over that would be your call. It became clear the last 2 months, for whatever reason, that you were not going to bring across your son to the W.T. to fulfil both your dreams of coaching/playing together. So you abandoned our club. Having filled the bus with committed players and fans, you jumped off the bus and left all on board the bus without a driver. You failed to walk the talk about being “on the WT bus”; your integrity as a person and a man of his word has taken a massive hit.

Good luck at Penrith; good luck with your second marriage to Gus and Penrith, we all know how your second Penrith marriage will eventually end; good luck fulfilling your dream and coaching your son, bear in mind all the Penrith players will be looking at you when your sons form dips and how your react and manage it; Good luck trying to have the same support and full ownership of the football club from Penrith that you enjoyed in your short time at the WT; we know when the road gets a bit rocky Gus will intervene and you will be his puppet!; Good luck with restoring your integrity, you joined the WT as a man with high integrity and leave with the complete opposite.

As for the West Tigers, their fans, sponsors and players they will move on, you will go down as their worst coach in their short history; we will get a coach who is fully committed to coaching with no personal/family agendas impeding his goals.
I read this somewhere else today because I couldn't get on this forum, but I can't remember where. Did you post this somewhere else Tigerap or am I dreaming?
Yeah he posted it in two threads


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Post by innsaneink » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 12:02 am

Spud Murphy wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:06 pm
tigerap wrote:
Fri 05 Oct, 2018 11:52 pm
I know players(NC admitted as much) and some coaches read fan forums...so here goes:



Dear Ivan,

After the Wests Tigers threw you a coaching lifeline, after Gus Gould dumped you in 2015, you talked up that you intend to rebuild the club, change its culture to a winning one, you gave the fans hope that you committed for the long haul.

In 2017 you coined the phrase “on the bus”, that became your mantra, players had a choice to either get on the bus or off it!. You let 3 promising juniors off the bus at the nearest bus stop as you felt they were not committed to the club. You convinced a number of players from other clubs to hop on the bus long term as you gave them a vision of a long term commitment and rebuilding programme, they bought into your vision and mantra.

You were given full reins of the football club by our CEO and Board, Marina Go openly stated that you have full ownership of the clubs roster and if you wanted to bring your son over that would be your call. It became clear the last 2 months, for whatever reason, that you were not going to bring across your son to the W.T. to fulfil both your dreams of coaching/playing together. So you abandoned our club. Having filled the bus with committed players and fans, you jumped off the bus and left all on board the bus without a driver. You failed to walk the talk about being “on the WT bus”; your integrity as a person and a man of his word has taken a massive hit.

Good luck at Penrith; good luck with your second marriage to Gus and Penrith, we all know how your second Penrith marriage will eventually end; good luck fulfilling your dream and coaching your son, bear in mind all the Penrith players will be looking at you when your sons form dips and how your react and manage it; Good luck trying to have the same support and full ownership of the football club from Penrith that you enjoyed in your short time at the WT; we know when the road gets a bit rocky Gus will intervene and you will be his puppet!; Good luck with restoring your integrity, you joined the WT as a man with high integrity and leave with the complete opposite.

As for the West Tigers, their fans, sponsors and players they will move on, you will go down as their worst coach in their short history; we will get a coach who is fully committed to coaching with no personal/family agendas impeding his goals.
I read this somewhere else today because I couldn't get on this forum, but I can't remember where. Did you post this somewhere else Tigerap or am I dreaming?
Yeah he posted it in two threads

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Post by Demonborger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 12:31 am

fibrodreaming wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:21 pm
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
Ivan has made a decision that is in his own best financial interests. I can't blame him for that - although I believe that he had to compromise his standards of integrity to achieve this outcome.

But, your assertions about the "real" world are simply not true. I am sure that if you worked in a competitive industry with lots of secret intelligence, and a colleague of yours who was tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years, declared that, in two years time, they were joining a rival organisation, their employer would take steps to remove them or, at least, move them off-line.

I am happy to be corrected, but I don't recall an NRL coach signing a contract to coach a team in two years time. The only reason the Panthers and Cleary have done so is to force the Tigers into releasing Ivan for the 2019 season. It is duplicitous for Ivan to say that he intends to honour his contract. He knows that he has put the Tigers in an impossible position.

I believe that Tiger's supporters have every right to feel disappointed and angry.
Closest in recent times was Des Hasler at Manly.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 5:56 am

kafta wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:33 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:05 pm
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 8:54 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 7:21 am


Actually he has fronted the players and told him what he was doing, and so far nothing has changed.
Aren't there rumours/articles/information circulating that he signed a contract for three years from 2021? That is new. Also one of the Channel 9 reports (Weidler?) said the players wanted Bennett at the club?
Rumours and articles is what all this is living on.
Some people will believe anything that someone with a microphone says
Goldcoast tiger do you truly believe this is all a fabrication of the media & nothing will come of it ?

Depends what you are talking about, There’s no doubt that Ivans signed with Penrith (in the last week)for after his contract finishes here,and he’s got every right to do that.

But as for anything else, such as he’s going to break his contract, or that Bennett is coming here , or that the club is going to sack him, and all of the other ravings of the media, yes, I believe that most of it has very little accuracy in it at all.

It’s a bonanza for them, as no one knows at all , what the truth is , so they can say what ever they like and whatever looks like a good headline.
Remember, these grubs ,thrive on rumours, and love to see people running around like Chicken Little, waiting for the sky to fall in, because it sells papers,and that’s all they care about.

So far , the only concrete stuff is that , Ivan has said that he’ll honour his contract.
WTs have said that he’ll be coaching here, (and ,as they’ll be breaking the contract if that’s not in first grade) I would believe that will be first grade,
Bennett has said that he will be staying in Brisbane, and Coaching the Broncos .
Ivan is on holidays somewhere in the South Pacific,

Anything else is supposition, and is all the opinion of whoever says it

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 6:21 am

Demonborger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 12:31 am
fibrodreaming wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:21 pm
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
Ivan has made a decision that is in his own best financial interests. I can't blame him for that - although I believe that he had to compromise his standards of integrity to achieve this outcome.

But, your assertions about the "real" world are simply not true. I am sure that if you worked in a competitive industry with lots of secret intelligence, and a colleague of yours who was tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years, declared that, in two years time, they were joining a rival organisation, their employer would take steps to remove them or, at least, move them off-line.

I am happy to be corrected, but I don't recall an NRL coach signing a contract to coach a team in two years time. The only reason the Panthers and Cleary have done so is to force the Tigers into releasing Ivan for the 2019 season. It is duplicitous for Ivan to say that he intends to honour his contract. He knows that he has put the Tigers in an impossible position.

I believe that Tiger's supporters have every right to feel disappointed and angry.
Closest in recent times was Des Hasler at Manly.
Hardly a real comparison as I’m sure that our so called “Secrets” Are not of world changing significance, unless we are buying some supplements that will turn some of our plodders into the Burghii,
Also , Ivan has already signed two very good buys for the club, so he’s already doing his job .
And in most cases, how would any of us know what future dealings that ANY coach
Has made in the past, whether it’s one or two years in advance of his present contract,

Seibold could have signed a contract last April, go to another club at the end of this season, or next season if he chose to, , no difference if it’s one year , or two years ,he’s still able to have access to the
“Secrets” of Souths

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 7:51 am

Nucky Thompson wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:56 am
Knowing our luck he will win a premership next year
I hope so, cos i think he'll be here.

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 7:54 am

Demonborger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 12:31 am
fibrodreaming wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:21 pm
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
Ivan has made a decision that is in his own best financial interests. I can't blame him for that - although I believe that he had to compromise his standards of integrity to achieve this outcome.

But, your assertions about the "real" world are simply not true. I am sure that if you worked in a competitive industry with lots of secret intelligence, and a colleague of yours who was tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years, declared that, in two years time, they were joining a rival organisation, their employer would take steps to remove them or, at least, move them off-line.

I am happy to be corrected, but I don't recall an NRL coach signing a contract to coach a team in two years time. The only reason the Panthers and Cleary have done so is to force the Tigers into releasing Ivan for the 2019 season. It is duplicitous for Ivan to say that he intends to honour his contract. He knows that he has put the Tigers in an impossible position.

I believe that Tiger's supporters have every right to feel disappointed and angry.
Closest in recent times was Des Hasler at Manly.
Brian Smith and Michael Hagan switched clubs at the start of 2007. Both signed with their new clubs before the 06 season started.

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Post by batboy » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:17 am

Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
You’ve obviously never held a job with any level of importance...
I can assure you in the industry I’m in - if you declare at any point, that you are to be employed by a competing firm... you’re generally escorted off the premises, regardless of how much notice you give

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Post by fibrodreaming » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 8:41 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 6:21 am
Demonborger wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 12:31 am
fibrodreaming wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 6:21 pm
Tarl wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:43 pm
Honestly, it's illuminating at how thin-skinned and sensitive we all are.

In the real world, if you had plans of changing employers in 2 years or when your contract runs out, do you think the boss and your fellow employees would tell you to leave now? Would they get so offended that you want to work for a different company and call you names?

This is one of the modern issues with Western society, we are too readily offended and almost eager to be outraged.

Until he's gone IC is our coach. Afterwards, whenever that happens to be, go hard. But until then a dose of reality may do wonders!

*[sound of me getting off my high-horse and leaving the room]
Ivan has made a decision that is in his own best financial interests. I can't blame him for that - although I believe that he had to compromise his standards of integrity to achieve this outcome.



But, your assertions about the "real" world are simply not true. I am sure that if you worked in a competitive industry with lots of secret intelligence, and a colleague of yours who was tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years, declared that, in two years time, they were joining a rival organisation, their employer would take steps to remove them or, at least, move them off-line.

I am happy to be corrected, but I don't recall an NRL coach signing a contract to coach a team in two years time. The only reason the Panthers and Cleary have done so is to force the Tigers into releasing Ivan for the 2019 season. It is duplicitous for Ivan to say that he intends to honour his contract. He knows that he has put the Tigers in an impossible position.

I believe that Tiger's supporters have every right to feel disappointed and angry.
Closest in recent times was Des Hasler at Manly.
Hardly a real comparison as I’m sure that our so called “Secrets” Are not of world changing significance, unless we are buying some supplements that will turn some of our plodders into the Burghii,
Also , Ivan has already signed two very good buys for the club, so he’s already doing his job .
And in most cases, how would any of us know what future dealings that ANY coach
Has made in the past, whether it’s one or two years in advance of his present contract,

Seibold could have signed a contract last April, go to another club at the end of this season, or next season if he chose to, , no difference if it’s one year , or two years ,he’s still able to have access to the
“Secrets” of Souths
I wasn't attempting to provide an exact analogy and I wasn't suggesting that the Tigers have "secrets".

I was commenting on the general proposition that in the "real world" (Tari's words) your work colleagues and your employer would be relaxed if you announced that you would be leaving in two years time and joining a rival organisation. There would be many examples in the "real world" where that would not be the case.

I also used in my analogy a person "tasked with putting in place strategies to move the organisation forward over the next few years". That is closer to the Tiger's situation with Cleary. I notice you haven't taken issue with that part of the analogy.

Incidentally, I see that my original post appears three time on the previous page. I don't know why - I only submitted it once.

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Post by TIGER » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:59 am

I'm just glad we won't have to deal with the father coach, son high profile player combination and all the drama that would create.

From the moment I heard about this desire for Cleary to coach his son I knew it would cause problems, we don't need the drama that comes with it, I'm happy for Penrith to have that.

What annoys me is this continual trend of coaches arriving with a "plan" recruiting mediocre players then leaving their mess behind for the next coach for the cycle to continue.

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 11:09 am

TIGER wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:59 am
I'm just glad we won't have to deal with the father coach, son high profile player combination and all the drama that would create.

From the moment I heard about this desire for Cleary to coach his son I knew it would cause problems, we don't need the drama that comes with it, I'm happy for Penrith to have that.

What annoys me is this continual trend of coaches arriving with a "plan" recruiting mediocre players then leaving their mess behind for the next coach for the cycle to continue.
Josh Stuart when interviewed on tv last night was far from convinced a father coaching his son could work or indeed should happen. I'd suggest there is a lot of pressure on IC right now.

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Post by gallagher » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 11:11 am

TIGER wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:59 am
I'm just glad we won't have to deal with the father coach, son high profile player combination and all the drama that would create.

From the moment I heard about this desire for Cleary to coach his son I knew it would cause problems, we don't need the drama that comes with it, I'm happy for Penrith to have that.

What annoys me is this continual trend of coaches arriving with a "plan" recruiting mediocre players then leaving their mess behind for the next coach for the cycle to continue.
The next appointment is so important isn't it. It has to be a high profile coach and we need to spend a lot more money on the football dept. Bennett and Maguire wil want their own staff, can we give them that?

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Post by westTAHger » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 11:29 am

innsaneink wrote:
Sat 06 Oct, 2018 5:40 pm
I'd say there's a lot more guessing from the media than actual facts
I agree Ink, going to be an interesting off season. To be honest, I want wests tigers to consistently play finals footy, and especially make the finals in in 2019, regardless of who the coach is.
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Basil, our rescue dog, is wondering when wests tigers will win 25 - 18 :D

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Post by momo&medo » Sun 07 Oct, 2018 11:45 am

TIGER wrote:
Sun 07 Oct, 2018 10:59 am
I'm just glad we won't have to deal with the father coach, son high profile player combination and all the drama that would create.

From the moment I heard about this desire for Cleary to coach his son I knew it would cause problems, we don't need the drama that comes with it, I'm happy for Penrith to have that.

What annoys me is this continual trend of coaches arriving with a "plan" recruiting mediocre players then leaving their mess behind for the next coach for the cycle to continue.
Yes that outcome always did not sit well with me.
Also now-days contracts don't mean much particularly if you have cap space and player manager is willing to negotiate.

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