Soccer talk and Banter , keep it all here

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Cultured Bogan
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Re: Soccer talk and Banter , keep it all here

Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 7:41 am

clokan wrote:
Thu 31 Aug, 2017 11:19 pm
stryker wrote:
Thu 31 Aug, 2017 10:40 pm
Is Australia now stuffed for WC?
No not yet, top two from the group go through, currently Japan and Saudi Arabia, though the Saudi's are on the same points as us but with a better F/A. We should beat Thailand, and hopefully Japan turn up and beat the Saudi's though as Japan have qualified they may not be that focused. There is still a playoff phase if we finish third in the group, we get thrown in with a bunch of other teams and play off for one of the remaining spots. Lets hope Japan win and we beat Thailand on Tuesday.
Japan don't even have to beat Saudi. Even if they draw and we beat Thailand we go through. Japan just cannot lose.
Corrosive tainted by sin, I'm spilling blood and I can hardly contain it;
Corrosive hallowing the hand, stiffened I eat away, eat into the surface.

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 7:47 am

Balmain Boy wrote:
Thu 31 Aug, 2017 11:24 pm
That was an utterly atrocious performance. We've got a poor squad but Ange's tactics are mind mindbogglingly poor. Highlights our weaknesses and is totally predictable. We simply don't have the players to play the way Ange wants us to, but he's too stubborn to change his tactics to better suit the players he has.
The possession game worked OK in the first half, didn't help that Troisi murdered nearly every passage of play he was involved in and Smith must have thought he was playing NFL at times. We gave the Japanese a few scares and frustrated them but they absorbed the pressure very well and blew us off the park from about 40 minutes in and we never recovered. Cahill should have started the second half and really given the Japanese something to worry about, they were well in control by the time he got out there. Juric should have started as well, Kruse is handy to have in the squad but he's not a starter IMO.

I thought Rogic was fairly ordinary as well. But Luongo, wow... His feet must glow he has some stellar footwork.
Corrosive tainted by sin, I'm spilling blood and I can hardly contain it;
Corrosive hallowing the hand, stiffened I eat away, eat into the surface.

Fuerza en la adversidad.

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Unread post by FreddyK » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 8:16 am

The Socceroos have a poor record in Japan and Ange only needed to put every player in the box and play for a draw for us to get through. Australia are now at risk because Ange did not want to be seen as being pragmatic.

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Unread post by FreddyK » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 8:22 am

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 7:47 am
Balmain Boy wrote:
Thu 31 Aug, 2017 11:24 pm
That was an utterly atrocious performance. We've got a poor squad but Ange's tactics are mind mindbogglingly poor. Highlights our weaknesses and is totally predictable. We simply don't have the players to play the way Ange wants us to, but he's too stubborn to change his tactics to better suit the players he has.
The possession game worked OK in the first half, didn't help that Troisi murdered nearly every passage of play he was involved in and Smith must have thought he was playing NFL at times. We gave the Japanese a few scares and frustrated them but they absorbed the pressure very well and blew us off the park from about 40 minutes in and we never recovered. Cahill should have started the second half and really given the Japanese something to worry about, they were well in control by the time he got out there. Juric should have started as well, Kruse is handy to have in the squad but he's not a starter IMO.

I thought Rogic was fairly ordinary as well. But Luongo, wow... His feet must glow he has some stellar footwork.
Rogic is the star at Celtic ... with a performance like last night you realise the Scottish game is just not up there. Spiranovic and Smith were a real worry all night. Our midfield without Mooy is rather poor and where was Troisi? Did we have a striker? Overall a poor performance.

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Unread post by everett8 » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 8:27 am

What is happening to Australian Sport.

Rugby Union, Cricket and Soccer teams get beaten. No decent tennis players

If that is our best 11 soccer players we are in real trouble.

One of the most boring games of sport I have ever watched


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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 9:03 am

FreddyK wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 8:22 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 7:47 am
Balmain Boy wrote:
Thu 31 Aug, 2017 11:24 pm
That was an utterly atrocious performance. We've got a poor squad but Ange's tactics are mind mindbogglingly poor. Highlights our weaknesses and is totally predictable. We simply don't have the players to play the way Ange wants us to, but he's too stubborn to change his tactics to better suit the players he has.
The possession game worked OK in the first half, didn't help that Troisi murdered nearly every passage of play he was involved in and Smith must have thought he was playing NFL at times. We gave the Japanese a few scares and frustrated them but they absorbed the pressure very well and blew us off the park from about 40 minutes in and we never recovered. Cahill should have started the second half and really given the Japanese something to worry about, they were well in control by the time he got out there. Juric should have started as well, Kruse is handy to have in the squad but he's not a starter IMO.

I thought Rogic was fairly ordinary as well. But Luongo, wow... His feet must glow he has some stellar footwork.
Rogic is the star at Celtic ... with a performance like last night you realise the Scottish game is just not up there. Spiranovic and Smith were a real worry all night. Our midfield without Mooy is rather poor and where was Troisi? Did we have a striker? Overall a poor performance.
We had two strikers, they were on the bench unfortunately.

Contrary to popular opinion, I think our players are rather good individually but the problem lays with the fact that unlike most of the heavyweights in world football, we don't have the bulk of our team playing in one league with and against each other. We're picking players from all corners of the globe to come back and trying to unify them under one style. Maybe that's Ange's MO, play possession and have an X-factor or two in the team who can play what's in front of them.
Corrosive tainted by sin, I'm spilling blood and I can hardly contain it;
Corrosive hallowing the hand, stiffened I eat away, eat into the surface.

Fuerza en la adversidad.

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Unread post by Balmain Boy » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 12:40 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 9:03 am
FreddyK wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 8:22 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 7:47 am
Balmain Boy wrote:
Thu 31 Aug, 2017 11:24 pm
That was an utterly atrocious performance. We've got a poor squad but Ange's tactics are mind mindbogglingly poor. Highlights our weaknesses and is totally predictable. We simply don't have the players to play the way Ange wants us to, but he's too stubborn to change his tactics to better suit the players he has.
The possession game worked OK in the first half, didn't help that Troisi murdered nearly every passage of play he was involved in and Smith must have thought he was playing NFL at times. We gave the Japanese a few scares and frustrated them but they absorbed the pressure very well and blew us off the park from about 40 minutes in and we never recovered. Cahill should have started the second half and really given the Japanese something to worry about, they were well in control by the time he got out there. Juric should have started as well, Kruse is handy to have in the squad but he's not a starter IMO.

I thought Rogic was fairly ordinary as well. But Luongo, wow... His feet must glow he has some stellar footwork.
Rogic is the star at Celtic ... with a performance like last night you realise the Scottish game is just not up there. Spiranovic and Smith were a real worry all night. Our midfield without Mooy is rather poor and where was Troisi? Did we have a striker? Overall a poor performance.
We had two strikers, they were on the bench unfortunately.

Contrary to popular opinion, I think our players are rather good individually but the problem lays with the fact that unlike most of the heavyweights in world football, we don't have the bulk of our team playing in one league with and against each other. We're picking players from all corners of the globe to come back and trying to unify them under one style. Maybe that's Ange's MO, play possession and have an X-factor or two in the team who can play what's in front of them.
No, many countries have the same issue. Our problem is that our players are mostly either not playing (Smith, Milligan, Sainsbury, Spira, Troisi, and most of our bench players) or are playing at a fairly poor level.

Look at Japan they have lots of players playing regularly in the top leagues of Spain, Germany, France, Italy and England. Whereas we have 1 player in the Bundesliga, 2 in the EPL and the rest are in second or third divisions around the globe. And Japan's local players play in the J-League which is vastly superior to the A-League.

This is the weakest Socceroos squad for about 25 years. And they're struggling accordingly. We also have a coach who is trying to play the most advanced and difficult formation in world football, every game, at all costs. A clever coach might try this against some opponents, but realise in certain situations that playing with a back 4 or a more standard formation wouldn't expose our mistakes as badly.

We haven't won in 5 games now and have to smash Thailand to have a chance.

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Unread post by Tiger Come Lately » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 12:48 pm

The possession game is rubbish. You need plenty of movement and the ability to hold the ball before you can be effective. the idea is to draw the opposition out and create space however we don't have skill set to play that game. japan sat back waited for us to lose the ball or hit us on the counter attack.

With my limited knowledge of soccer i think we should have played a direct game and used our height and strength to scrap for the ball in and around the 18yard box. Cahill is skillfull in the air and we couldn't put one decent cross in. the game was 2 - 0 and we were still passing backwards.

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Unread post by barra » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 1:18 pm

everett8 wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 8:27 am

If that is our best 11 soccer players we are in real trouble.
To be fair we had a few of our better players out.
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 9:03 am

We had two strikers, they were on the bench unfortunately.
And getting one impact player on the field with 20 to go being down 0-1 was too little, too late.
Tiger Come Lately wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 12:48 pm
japan sat back waited for us to lose the ball or hit us on the counter attack.

With my limited knowledge of soccer i think we should have played a direct game and used our height and strength
True, interesting thing is that when Ange first came into the coach role we did play a direct, attacking style, pressed hard and played to the strike we had. That seems to have almost disappeared, we just don't seem to be playing smart.

We were both out-played and out-coached last night.

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 1:50 pm

Balmain Boy wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 12:40 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 9:03 am
FreddyK wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 8:22 am
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 7:47 am


The possession game worked OK in the first half, didn't help that Troisi murdered nearly every passage of play he was involved in and Smith must have thought he was playing NFL at times. We gave the Japanese a few scares and frustrated them but they absorbed the pressure very well and blew us off the park from about 40 minutes in and we never recovered. Cahill should have started the second half and really given the Japanese something to worry about, they were well in control by the time he got out there. Juric should have started as well, Kruse is handy to have in the squad but he's not a starter IMO.

I thought Rogic was fairly ordinary as well. But Luongo, wow... His feet must glow he has some stellar footwork.
Rogic is the star at Celtic ... with a performance like last night you realise the Scottish game is just not up there. Spiranovic and Smith were a real worry all night. Our midfield without Mooy is rather poor and where was Troisi? Did we have a striker? Overall a poor performance.
We had two strikers, they were on the bench unfortunately.

Contrary to popular opinion, I think our players are rather good individually but the problem lays with the fact that unlike most of the heavyweights in world football, we don't have the bulk of our team playing in one league with and against each other. We're picking players from all corners of the globe to come back and trying to unify them under one style. Maybe that's Ange's MO, play possession and have an X-factor or two in the team who can play what's in front of them.
No, many countries have the same issue. Our problem is that our players are mostly either not playing (Smith, Milligan, Sainsbury, Spira, Troisi, and most of our bench players) or are playing at a fairly poor level.

Look at Japan they have lots of players playing regularly in the top leagues of Spain, Germany, France, Italy and England. Whereas we have 1 player in the Bundesliga, 2 in the EPL and the rest are in second or third divisions around the globe. And Japan's local players play in the J-League which is vastly superior to the A-League.

This is the weakest Socceroos squad for about 25 years. And they're struggling accordingly. We also have a coach who is trying to play the most advanced and difficult formation in world football, every game, at all costs. A clever coach might try this against some opponents, but realise in certain situations that playing with a back 4 or a more standard formation wouldn't expose our mistakes as badly.

We haven't won in 5 games now and have to smash Thailand to have a chance.
Fair enough that's your opinion.

Japan isn't a football heavyweight, they're an Asian football heavyweight. Spain, Germany, Italy, the bulk of their squads play in their respective leagues, with the rest playing in Europe, generally in premier teams which they'd regularly play against each other in Champions League tournaments. There's a reason why they regularly compete at the business end of the world cup. Of all the top tier nations Brazil is the only real aberration there.

I don't agree with Ange's tactics or some of his squad selections either, I don't think there's cohesion or the right squad to execute that. We'll probably dominate Thailand which will paper over the cracks and get humiliated at the WC.

I suppose it will all come out in the wash soon enough.
Corrosive tainted by sin, I'm spilling blood and I can hardly contain it;
Corrosive hallowing the hand, stiffened I eat away, eat into the surface.

Fuerza en la adversidad.

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Unread post by Balmain Boy » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 2:17 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 1:50 pm
Balmain Boy wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 12:40 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 9:03 am
FreddyK wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 8:22 am


Rogic is the star at Celtic ... with a performance like last night you realise the Scottish game is just not up there. Spiranovic and Smith were a real worry all night. Our midfield without Mooy is rather poor and where was Troisi? Did we have a striker? Overall a poor performance.
We had two strikers, they were on the bench unfortunately.

Contrary to popular opinion, I think our players are rather good individually but the problem lays with the fact that unlike most of the heavyweights in world football, we don't have the bulk of our team playing in one league with and against each other. We're picking players from all corners of the globe to come back and trying to unify them under one style. Maybe that's Ange's MO, play possession and have an X-factor or two in the team who can play what's in front of them.
No, many countries have the same issue. Our problem is that our players are mostly either not playing (Smith, Milligan, Sainsbury, Spira, Troisi, and most of our bench players) or are playing at a fairly poor level.

Look at Japan they have lots of players playing regularly in the top leagues of Spain, Germany, France, Italy and England. Whereas we have 1 player in the Bundesliga, 2 in the EPL and the rest are in second or third divisions around the globe. And Japan's local players play in the J-League which is vastly superior to the A-League.

This is the weakest Socceroos squad for about 25 years. And they're struggling accordingly. We also have a coach who is trying to play the most advanced and difficult formation in world football, every game, at all costs. A clever coach might try this against some opponents, but realise in certain situations that playing with a back 4 or a more standard formation wouldn't expose our mistakes as badly.

We haven't won in 5 games now and have to smash Thailand to have a chance.
Fair enough that's your opinion.

Japan isn't a football heavyweight, they're an Asian football heavyweight. Spain, Germany, Italy, the bulk of their squads play in their respective leagues, with the rest playing in Europe, generally in premier teams which they'd regularly play against each other in Champions League tournaments. There's a reason why they regularly compete at the business end of the world cup. Of all the top tier nations Brazil is the only real aberration there.

I don't agree with Ange's tactics or some of his squad selections either, I don't think there's cohesion or the right squad to execute that. We'll probably dominate Thailand which will paper over the cracks and get humiliated at the WC.

I suppose it will all come out in the wash soon enough.
I can't see any of the Asian teams which qualify for the WC getting out of their groups, or maybe not even winning any games. We are the weakest confederation in football and yes even the Asian 'powerhouses' are weak compared to the rest of the world.

Playing in a top league doesn't always help the national team though. How many English players are there in the EPL (yes a lot of imports these days but still a couple of hundred to choose from in total). We're happy to have 1-2. Yet the English national team has struggled for a long time despite having a lot of players playing at a high level, and some superstars of the sport.

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 2:22 pm

I don't consider the English to be football heavyweights, they just happen to have the best marketed league in the world. I do take your point though. It's not always a sure thing, but it does help. No coincidence that the year Spain won the WC that three quarters of their midfield were playing for Barcelona, that sort of quality cohesion helps.

I do agree about the Asian teams not making a dent in the WC, even Japan aren't as good as they used to be. They were well off the boil last night, despite easily accounting for us.
Corrosive tainted by sin, I'm spilling blood and I can hardly contain it;
Corrosive hallowing the hand, stiffened I eat away, eat into the surface.

Fuerza en la adversidad.

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Unread post by Tiger Come Lately » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 2:34 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 01 Sep, 2017 2:22 pm
I don't consider the English to be football heavyweights, they just happen to have the best marketed league in the world. I do take your point though. It's not always a sure thing, but it does help. No coincidence that the year Spain won the WC that three quarters of their midfield were playing for Barcelona, that sort of quality cohesion helps.

I do agree about the Asian teams not making a dent in the WC, even Japan aren't as good as they used to be. They were well off the boil last night, despite easily accounting for us.
I agree, part the reason why Qld have been successful in the SOO is the club cohesion that smith, cronk and slater transferring into SOO and international games for that matter as well.

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Unread post by FreddyK » Fri 01 Sep, 2017 4:06 pm

These boys have played well in the past and the recent game against Chile is testament. Ange's desire to play a possession game regardless of situation is a little pig-headed. Recent coaches played for the points in the Qualifiers ie points at any cost regardless of style. Ange is style at any cost. It was annoying that there was no Plan B. It was clear from the start that we had lost the midfield and yet Ange persisted. As said earlier we should have played direct and use our clear advantage ie the strength of our lads but alas this was not meant to be. Japan made our boys look like they were not up to the standard.

It was embarrassing and an indictment on our squad that Japan's plan was to sit and wait for an error then hit hard. That's what they did and we made plenty and we lost.

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Unread post by Marshall_magic » Sat 02 Sep, 2017 7:50 pm

Ange really botched this one. Terrible squad selection, terrible formation & the tactics were dire. At the point where Japan were pressing us high and forcing a few errors surely he should have told Ryan to start pumping it long. It takes one scare and they'd suddenly think twice about pressing high. Sadly there is a stigma about long balls and most coaches have too much pride to play that game.

The three at the back does not work for us, we do not have the defenders for it. Sainsbury & Spira are both good, but the rest, not so much, play a back 4, I know back threes are the in thing at the moment, but we don't have the squad.

Kruse up front in a one? The bloke was a good player about 4 ACL ops ago, but he doesn't have the legs anymore and is not a striker. If we have to play one striker then we need someone who gives defenders something to think about, Cahill. He's scored plenty against Japan and just his presence would worry them, and open up some space for others.

Brad Smith....wow, I generally rate the bloke but he can't crack the Bournemouth bench at the moment, and was absolutely dire against Japan, has to be replaced for Thailand.

Ultimately the bulk of this squad are championship players, and they looked second rate against a very good (although under strength) Japan team. If we do make it through (which I think we will) we need to pray for an easy group, because we will be cannon fodder for the big boys. If we miss the auto qualifying spot the play off spots are currently occupied by Syria & Honduras, the only teams who we would struggle against that are in contention for play off spots are above the current positions (South Korea & America).

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Unread post by diedpretty » Sat 02 Sep, 2017 9:19 pm

I'm sick and tired of us trying to play like top European sides - hold and pass, hold and pass , hold and pass - build up from the back through midfield - we are not technical enough to play this style. We play our best football when we attack and defend with aggression. At the moment everyone is too scared to have a shot at goal. You are never going to win games if you don't go for goal. Pick some genuine strikers and have a go.

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Unread post by Marshall_magic » Tue 05 Sep, 2017 10:08 pm

Well that was dire, fell over the line against Thailand. Imagine if we'd been playing Germany.

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Unread post by Geo. » Tue 05 Sep, 2017 10:35 pm

I actually watched the second half....500 shots at goal..

And can someone explain if you are trying to score goals you kick it back in the opposite direction so often back into your own half...seems counter productive..
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