Broses

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Re: Broses

Unread post by supercoach » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 5:58 pm

tiga4eva wrote:My only concern with our halves is that the set play is usually a death or glory one. Well either grab a try out of it or turnover possession on an early tackle. I haven't figured out what our system is. A system that you trust and use every week and base your structure around. Surely the flash plays should be less prominent.

Other than Teddy the Broses have very little in the way of targets. At this stage we do not have anything at all happening around the ruck,we also don't have a damaging edge runner. So basically its the quick shift to the right or nothing. Once upon a time we were the masters of the blind side move, okay we flogged it to death, but we did get the odd result, now nothing happens on the blind side. I remember St George a few years ago had the one play, a quick shot to the left and a second man play, it was really successful for a while than every team knew what to expect and they struggled big time to score points. I think we are going through the same thing


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Unread post by Black'n'White » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 6:35 pm

supercoach wrote:
tiga4eva wrote:My only concern with our halves is that the set play is usually a death or glory one. Well either grab a try out of it or turnover possession on an early tackle. I haven't figured out what our system is. A system that you trust and use every week and base your structure around. Surely the flash plays should be less prominent.

Other than Teddy the Broses have very little in the way of targets. At this stage we do not have anything at all happening around the ruck,we also don't have a damaging edge runner. So basically its the quick shift to the right or nothing. Once upon a time we were the masters of the blind side move, okay we flogged it to death, but we did get the odd result, now nothing happens on the blind side. I remember St George a few years ago had the one play, a quick shot to the left and a second man play, it was really successful for a while than every team knew what to expect and they struggled big time to score points. I think we are going through the same thing
Well put supercoach. I dont think its as dire as it seems though, as the shift we use has a few variations we havent put into practice.

Lawrence when he was actually a decent centre could run against the grain like no mans business. Teams knowing our wide shifting plays could be eaten alive by such a run being employed a few times a game. Whether the man gets through, or other times runs an effective decoy putting doubt in defenders minds its all the same thing.

Set pieces I often liken to playing poker. Having a tell only works against you if you dont either know you have one, or cannot put it on to your advantage occasionally. Variations on the theme.

For now they know to watch Teddy on the edges.... add a Lawrence against the grain and the defenders are either caught out, or next time they see the shape are wary... a good decoy and a bad defensive read and Moses is a slimy ball runner... You dont need a whole new bag of tricks, just create that overlap and find the defender who is misreading the options.

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Unread post by InBenjiWeTrust » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 6:50 pm

IMHO, Simona & Naiqama are dangerous edge runners, but how many quality balls did they receive?

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Unread post by formerguest » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 7:06 pm

They fared okay against a very good and experienced opposition pairing against the Eels. Sure, they could have been a bit better, but that was a reasonably brutal and grinding match.

Only a metre or so more accuracy in a kick and a winger not tripping up would have made a world of difference. Having one, or even better, both of our first choice edge players take the field, would have opened up their attacking options immensely.

We got beaten by a decent team in a dour affair, it happens.

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Unread post by stryker » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 9:23 pm

I remember us all discussing this issue before the season started and the consensus was that Teddy must touch the ball as much as possible. A few of us didn't agree for the reasons we have seen the past two weeks.

Teddy is amazing...very hard to stop and hungry to score. However when every backline movement is designed to get him the ball he can be shut down due to defences easily predicting where the ball is going. I don't necessarily agree with you Supercoach that we don't have options. Rowdy is a strong edge runner, both centers have genuine pace carrying the ball and have footwork. We also have a bulldozer on the wing that is criminally underutilized. Nofo is only used to take hit ups and contest bombs in attack. Contesting bombs is not his strength despite the amazing try he scored a few years ago...he is better used barging his way over from close in crash plays. One try that backs this up is when he ran onto the ball and skittles Slater to score in the corner. That play should be used more often.

Point being, we have genuine try scores in our backline who get starved of the ball due to us having a superstar fullback. Use them!


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Unread post by tig_prmz » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 10:03 pm

they need to sit down and watch some clips of guys like cronk, thurston and johns.
My Round 1 Team 2018

1. lolo 2. noffa 3. suli 4. milne 5. fonua
6. reynolds 7. brooks
8. packer 9. ET 10. Twal
11. McQuen 12. Lawrence 13. Eiso
14. Matulino 15. McIllwrick 16. Sue 17. Aloiai
18. Marsters 19. Benji 20. Grant 21. K Naiqama
Next: Liddle, MCK, Felise, MWZ, Thompson, Rochow, Gamble

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 10:06 pm

stryker wrote:I remember us all discussing this issue before the season started and the consensus was that Teddy must touch the ball as much as possible. A few of us didn't agree for the reasons we have seen the past two weeks.

Teddy is amazing...very hard to stop and hungry to score. However when every backline movement is designed to get him the ball he can be shut down due to defences easily predicting where the ball is going. I don't necessarily agree with you Supercoach that we don't have options. Rowdy is a strong edge runner, both centers have genuine pace carrying the ball and have footwork. We also have a bulldozer on the wing that is criminally underutilized. Nofo is only used to take hit ups and contest bombs in attack. Contesting bombs is not his strength despite the amazing try he scored a few years ago...he is better used barging his way over from close in crash plays. One try that backs this up is when he ran onto the ball and skittles Slater to score in the corner. That play should be used more often.

Point being, we have genuine try scores in our backline who get starved of the ball due to us having a superstar fullback. Use them!
Call me crazy, but I think missing Lawrence was possibly the difference for us last weekend. He has run good lines this year, would have kept his opposite numbers guessing all game. He could well have been the one to break the game open for us.
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Unread post by TYGA » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 10:15 pm

We are criminally under utilising Simona in attack with early ball he could have run rings around Takarangi last weekend instead we tried to keep getting on the outside of Jennings and Radradra.
It was very poor game planning in attack by our playmakers and coaching staff.

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Unread post by happy tiger » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 10:22 pm

Patience is a virtue , and they don't have it

How many times if they are struggling after 20 minutes they just throw the game plan out the window ??

Like the thread mentioned , Parra threw a line speed at us and we just couldn't cope

As I mentioned to Barra , three things stop line speed , short kicking game , switching the point of attack from left to right or vice versa Thirdly the out in play that Benji and Moltzen used so effectively from time to time slows an opposition line speed

Because , you are changing the point of attack and the defence must reset itself to then cope with change

Secondly we MUST do something about our left side attack , Tedesco must spend some time there , even if it is acting as a decoy for the right , Simona's in and away is being wasted close to the line and not being used and Rankin isn't the worst finisher going around

I don't think this is Taylor's issue , it is a lack of vision from Brooks and to a lesser extent Moses , but then again nothing is stopping Moses and Brooks switching occasionally or even both linking left side

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Unread post by maxxy86 » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 10:46 pm

TYGA wrote:We are criminally under utilising Simona in attack with early ball he could have run rings around Takarangi last weekend instead we tried to keep getting on the outside of Jennings and Radradra.
It was very poor game planning in attack by our playmakers and coaching staff.
Our left edge has for many years now been the edge to go to....that was up til this season where probably the right edge is being used probably 60-40. Simona is probably our slickest out there and strongest also seems a pity he's missing out on early ball.
Well its nearly time to have a 'CRACK'....Go you :sign:

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Unread post by bathursttiger » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 10:49 pm

Brooks and Moses are yet to decide whether to trigger contract extensions in their favour for 2017. If they wish to do so, the pair can remain with the joint-venture outfit for about $600,000, the price where the bidding war will need to start for potential suitors. They have until June to test the market before deciding whether to stay put, making them free agents alongside fellow playmakers Benji Marshall, Cooper Cronk, Corey Norman, Luke Keary, Cody Walker and Lachlan Coote.

The Tigers have little room to move under their cap for next season and are seeking to put together a package that will keep Brooks and Moses well beyond then.

On the rise: Wests Tigers halves Luke Brooks and Mitchell Moses.
On the rise: Wests Tigers halves Luke Brooks and Mitchell Moses. Photo: Ben Rushton

However, the club is mindful of the disruption of having two of its marquee names going through a negotiation process at the same time and would like to stagger the pair's future contracts to avoid the situation.

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The current scenario is similar to what Manly went through with Kieran Foran and Daly Cherry-Evans, who were both exploring their options last season after their deals lapsed. The ongoing uncertainty about their futures, coupled with a similar cloud about whether coach Geoff Toovey would be retained, dominated reporting on the club and proved to be an unwanted distraction. The Sea Eagles subsequently missed the semi-finals for the first time in a decade and had to produce a $10 million "lifetime" contract for Cherry-Evans to make sure both internationals weren't lost.

Mark O'Neill, a former premiership-winning Tigers forward, has rejoined the club as its football manager after a stint at rugby league headquarters. He has made keeping Brooks and Moses his top priority since starting his new role and is hopeful of putting together an attractive proposition to the pair, who share the same management agency. The halves have shown signs they are ready to fulfil their undoubted potential in a bright start to 2016. The Tigers won their opening two matches courtesy of a flamboyant style of play, with Brooks, Moses and star fullback James Tedesco combining strongly.

Brooks said he was focused solely on football and would put contract considerations to the side for now. "I'm still just worried about playing footy, I'm not worried about that too much," Brooks said last week. "I've still got a bit of time so I'll focus on playing footy."

Asked if money would be the motivating factor in any decision, Brooks said: "No, it's not about money at all. It's about what is going to best suit me and let me play my best footy."

While Brooks and Moses are the priorities, the Tigers are already looking at contingency plans should they lose one or both. Melbourne pivot Blake Green is a potential target, while a homecoming for Marshall could be another option depending on what happens in the latest halves merry-go-round.


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Unread post by greatodensraven » Wed 30 Mar, 2016 11:43 pm

stryker wrote:I remember us all discussing this issue before the season started and the consensus was that Teddy must touch the ball as much as possible. A few of us didn't agree for the reasons we have seen the past two weeks.

Teddy is amazing...very hard to stop and hungry to score. However when every backline movement is designed to get him the ball he can be shut down due to defences easily predicting where the ball is going. I don't necessarily agree with you Supercoach that we don't have options. Rowdy is a strong edge runner, both centers have genuine pace carrying the ball and have footwork. We also have a bulldozer on the wing that is criminally underutilized. Nofo is only used to take hit ups and contest bombs in attack. Contesting bombs is not his strength despite the amazing try he scored a few years ago...he is better used barging his way over from close in crash plays. One try that backs this up is when he ran onto the ball and skittles Slater to score in the corner. That play should be used more often.

Point being, we have genuine try scores in our backline who get starved of the ball due to us having a superstar fullback. Use them!

Remember that try Nofo scored v the titans early on about 2 seasons ago? He turned inside of the wing & ran over the top of 3 defenders. Give the bloke some early ball, he always beats the first tackle & if Kev or Teddy are backing up they're quick enough to get through any half-breaks he creates.

Kev seems to get 2-3 chances with some early ball from our halves per game, normally from our own half & he has already made a few long range breaks on the back of these. I'd like to see more of this as well as giving the same opportunities to Simona. Kev, SImona & Nofo are all elusive runners & if used more often will take the heat off Teddy which will give him more space when he eventually is given the ball.

And what ever happened to the inside/outside play up the middle? We've got the likes of Sue, Woods, Aloiai, Grant, etc. making dents in the opposition & getting quick ptbs. Our speedsters should be backing them up through the middle to mix things up a bit.

Again so many options that are unfortunately currently being underutilised. Hopefully we can turn this around on Sat.

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Unread post by stevetiger » Thu 31 Mar, 2016 7:32 am

happy tiger wrote:Patience is a virtue , and they don't have it

How many times if they are struggling after 20 minutes they just throw the game plan out the window ??

Like the thread mentioned , Parra threw a line speed at us and we just couldn't cope

As I mentioned to Barra , three things stop line speed , short kicking game , switching the point of attack from left to right or vice versa Thirdly the out in play that Benji and Moltzen used so effectively from time to time slows an opposition line speed

Because , you are changing the point of attack and the defence must reset itself to then cope with change

Secondly we MUST do something about our left side attack , Tedesco must spend some time there , even if it is acting as a decoy for the right , Simona's in and away is being wasted close to the line and not being used and Rankin isn't the worst finisher going around

I don't think this is Taylor's issue , it is a lack of vision from Brooks and to a lesser extent Moses , but then again nothing is stopping Moses and Brooks switching occasionally or even both linking left side
This is actually a great analysis of some of the areas that need to improve. It is a Taylor issue though. His role is to get the most out of the team.

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Unread post by Blackpearl » Sat 02 Apr, 2016 7:20 pm

if brooks and moses are priority signings pffft
offer them 450 k each and they dont like it ... sayonara boys, and i mean boys !
I dislike sowfs immensely

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Unread post by Blackpearl » Sat 02 Apr, 2016 7:22 pm

if brooks and moses are priority signings pffft
offer them 450 k each and they dont like it ... sayonara boys, and i mean boys !
I dislike sowfs immensely

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Unread post by razor7 » Sat 02 Apr, 2016 7:23 pm

Agree. They just look like run of the mill halves. Your suggestion is spot on Blackpearl

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