Are we an oridinary side or victims?

tsjonathan
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Re: Are we an oridinary side or victims?

Post by tsjonathan » Sun 17 Apr, 2016 10:56 pm

Fade To Black wrote:
tsjonathan wrote:How can you be a victim 6 weeks in a row?

It's like me being late for work 6 days in a row and each time I blame public transport. At some point I need to take responsibility.
Who is saying we've been dudded 6 weeks in a row?
We most certainly got the very raw end of the deal today when it came to crucial decisions.
We are an average side who often get our task of winning games made a hell of a lot harder by incompetent officials and their unfathomable decisions. And that stinks.
We had two chances to win that game in over time but failed. A field goal from 15 m out directly in front of the sticks. How much easier would you want it?

Good teams don't blame the refs. It's part of sport sometimes calls go your way sometimes they don't. It's sport. Cry spilt milk and all that. We just don't have a good culture or team


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Harvey
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Post by Harvey » Sun 17 Apr, 2016 10:58 pm

The referees do not make any mistakes, just ask Tony Archer. He can defend the indefensible.

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Post by shane2801 » Sun 17 Apr, 2016 11:09 pm

Harvey wrote:The referees do not make any mistakes, just ask Tony Archer. He can defend the indefensible.
Are you perfect Harvey? It's very easy to referee from a lounge chair. I can guarantee it won't be too often this year or next that the Cowboys or Broncos will lose a game because of an unfortunate call. Good sides win whatever happens in the 80 mins.
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Post by ricksen » Sun 17 Apr, 2016 11:10 pm

We are a very very poor team, that's the long and short of it.
We copped some bad calls today, but nothing worse than others have had to deal with. Parramatta had a few go against them on Thursday and yet sucked it up, got on with the game and won it.
The NZ Warriors had a blatant penalty try not given the other week, and the perpetrator didn't even get 10 in the bin. They got on with it and won.

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Post by jirskyr » Sun 17 Apr, 2016 11:26 pm

innsaneink wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
stevetiger wrote:Culture has nothing to do with it. Culture is a convenient excuse for people not being able to cut it.

We can be successful just like other clubs. It's a simple formula. Get quality players that can consistently and get a coach who can give them a good game plan again on a consistent basis.

I don't think Taylor is the answer as our coach but maybe he can make it. I also think possibly Farah, Brooks and Moses are all not the right players to have in critical positions.
:roll: Okay culture is meaningless. I'm not going to argue with you suffice to say that you are dismissing the knowledge promoted by basically every coach and team manager ever. Establishing good culture is a huge deal in any business.
Simplistic steve has a simple answer for everything...its so easy everyone does it, dont know why weve waited 16 years
Yeah steve reckons teams like Storm, Broncos, Cowboys don't have a winning culture right now.

What did Smith say in the presser - "we aren't playing well, but we are still 5 wins and 2 losses, so pleasing we can still find ways to win".

I tell you frankly Melbourne are not playing better football than us. They've played:
Dragons (12th) - win at home by 2 pts
Titans (9th) - win at home by 18 points
Warriors (10th) - win away by 7 points
Sharks (3rd) - loss away by 8 points
Knights (15th) - win at home by 4 points
Dogs (6th) - loss at home by 6 points
Today's game (we are 13th)

Melbourne have not beaten a Top 8 side and have played 5/7 games against bottom 8 sides. Their differential is +18. But they are winning more of these close games. They have a culture of winning tight games, of making better decisions than us and it's getting them across the line,.

We have the opposite record 2-5. We've played 3 Top 8 sides, and our losses have been by 12, 8, 8, 2, 1. So we are not managing to get those close games across the line, even though the losses are shortening each week

But no, no culture involved there.


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Post by fergiefurr » Sun 17 Apr, 2016 11:32 pm

To me we're a below average to average side who can turn it on and match the best occasionally. However we aren't a good enough side to miss key players or cop some real dud calls and win games.

You need to remember that st George made the finals last year and they were dead set terrible. An average side can make the semis with a bit of luck, we've had none this year.

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Post by Russell » Sun 17 Apr, 2016 11:33 pm

Harvey wrote:The journos were trying to het JT to bite around some of those decisions. The quote was, "you are taking me somewhere I am not allowed to go". He should have gone there and gone hard. Simonas suspension, 2 balls on the field, the forward pass calls today. There has to be an investigation!!
I've asked this of a few posters over the past few weeks Harvey - if JT did go there, who is going to pay the $10,000 fine.

Are you going to pay it?

He and the club sure can't afford to pay it that is for sure.

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Post by Russell » Sun 17 Apr, 2016 11:36 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:That is a fair summary stevetiger. The coach has to go because he can't get the team to play to its potential.
That is just it Paws - I think the team is playing to its current ability. JT cannot get any more out of them at the moment.

They need to move up to a slightly higher level and they will.

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Post by tig_prmz » Sun 17 Apr, 2016 11:42 pm

both really.

when chips are down and you're a crap team, you need some decisions that matter to go your way.
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1. lolo 2. noffa 3. suli 4. milne 5. fonua
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11. McQuen 12. Lawrence 13. Eiso
14. Matulino 15. McIllwrick 16. Sue 17. Aloiai
18. Marsters 19. Benji 20. Grant 21. K Naiqama
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Post by Telltails » Mon 18 Apr, 2016 12:59 am

Fade To Black wrote:
tsjonathan wrote:How can you be a victim 6 weeks in a row?

It's like me being late for work 6 days in a row and each time I blame public transport. At some point I need to take responsibility.
Who is saying we've been dudded 6 weeks in a row?
We most certainly got the very raw end of the deal today when it came to crucial decisions.
We are an average side who often get our task of winning games made a hell of a lot harder by incompetent officials and their unfathomable decisions. And that stinks.
Agree the refereeing decisions had a major impact on the outcome of that game. Has a player ever been put on report without the opposing team being given a penalty, let alone the same player being awarded a try as a result of the initial illegal play. Absolute disgrace - and that was just one critical decision that went against us in a golden point game.

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Post by stevied » Mon 18 Apr, 2016 1:16 am

Both are true. Yes, refs give the weaker teams a harder time and we are no exception. Some of the calls last night were shockers. But we are also an ordinary side. Of course we are. We are inconsistent, have many young players and we have a roster with lots of holes. However, it's not all gloom and doom. A win is around the corner and it could lead to a string because we also have potential.

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Mon 18 Apr, 2016 7:03 am

happy tiger wrote:
Pawsandclaws wrote:Please don't blame the referees. We had our chances and weren't good enough. Our negative high ball under instruction was so predictable that we deserved to lose. The coach is not fine and has to go so we can get the best out of this side.
Negative high ball ??

The first two aimed at Koroibete he didn't even contest

Tell me this , why did they then after that attack the fullback time and time again and not attack Koroibete and the debutant winger

We didn't even find out whether he could handle a high ball

That is a player issue , not a coach issue
Happy, that's where we differ, the high ball is designed to allow our defence to set for the next six. It is a defensive play. I saw it contested twice yesterday by Addo Car and Moses. Usually we don't bother. The Storm varied their play and on one occasion nearly caught Tedesco out with the kick for Korobeite on the second or third tackle. We could have put Addo Car one on one with Korobeite and their fullback but didn't bother.

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Post by Gary Bakerloo » Mon 18 Apr, 2016 7:17 am

Pawsandclaws wrote:Please don't blame the referees. We had our chances and weren't good enough. Our negative high ball under instruction was so predictable that we deserved to lose. The coach is not fine and has to go so we can get the best out of this side.
Sorry, what's so negative about high balls?

Did we ever put them up when inside the 20? No, (when we did get to the kick), we put the ball along the ground or through the hands.

No, these "negative" high kicks are put up from 40m out. The whole point is to have them starting their set inside the 20m. The high hang time gives you the best chance of achieving that objective. It's called.....you know......playing tough and with discipline. It's a defensive kick yes, but what offensive kick/play are you thinking from the 40m line? Chip over the top, run the ball? They are 1% plays. I would rather the high percentage play of the high ball and pressure them with your defence

....and it works. We were down by 6 with 15 to play, the channel 9 commentators said we were now vulnerable. However, we grinded away with control and high kicks and sure enough, with 6 to go Storm came up with a mistake that led to the try in the corner.

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Post by stevetiger » Mon 18 Apr, 2016 8:03 am

jirskyr wrote:But no, no culture involved there.
Correct. It's just good footy players with consistently good game plans and good execution. We just have to get these aspects of our game right.

Or it's all about culture like you want it to be and the players and the coach don't make a difference. Why not we just put together a bunch of guys on this forum and see how many games we win. I'll be the coach because I don't want to be the one getting smashed out there. The culture would be great. I want to win games. I assume most of you do as well.

I work in IT and I remember a project management coach asking us what would be successful - a good team and a shoddy PM approach or a bad team and a good PM approach. It's the good team every day.

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Post by stevetiger » Mon 18 Apr, 2016 8:05 am

Russell wrote:
Pawsandclaws wrote:That is a fair summary stevetiger. The coach has to go because he can't get the team to play to its potential.
That is just it Paws - I think the team is playing to its current ability. JT cannot get any more out of them at the moment.

They need to move up to a slightly higher level and they will.
This is the difficult area to determine. I think Taylor lost us games last year. That to me is unacceptable. I get the impression that Taylor though hasn't lost us games this year apart from picking a poor bench the last couple of weeks.

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Post by kiwitiger » Mon 18 Apr, 2016 8:37 am

We panic with the big plays. I take the refs out of this loss because even with their mistakes we should of won. 18 all we had two big chances to win in ET. We fluffed both. So while the refs made some interesting calls, at the end of the day our execution under pressure let us down. Because we should have won that, we had the better chances in ET, anything else is an excuse to me.

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Post by tsjonathan » Mon 18 Apr, 2016 8:53 am

I'm not sure what is wrong with Moses but ive seen him kick those field goals in the lower grades in his sleep.

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Post by Gary Bakerloo » Mon 18 Apr, 2016 8:58 am

tsjonathan wrote:I'm not sure what is wrong with Moses but ive seen him kick those field goals in the lower grades in his sleep.
Pressure.

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