Untapped and undeveloped...

TrueTiger
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Untapped and undeveloped...

Post by TrueTiger » Sun 22 May, 2016 8:58 am

I had to work yesterday and didn't see the win against the Knights,however the highlights I did see showed a lot more enthusiasm from both these sides...We have some more untapped talent in JAC and ET definitely has the ability to be included in an NRL side of much more quality than ours..The Knights have some young up and coming players that seem to handle the big arena as well,especially the young prop who made over 240 odd metres during the game..The Tigers needed that win and the Knights competed well after an absolute trouncing the week before...This all points to the fact that young undeveloped teams need to learn and understand how the NRL works,are we still learning or are we just not an NRL standard side as many have suggested which brings me to the point of teams who are far more talented and seasoned players on big money lamenting on the bottom of the ladder...To me the difference is big money players don't always buy you the results you need,just as hyped up young players don't perform as well once they step up to NRL level,which leaves me still wondering if we are still a huge work in progress or are we in need of spending big money to buy players in many key positions and stop trying to make high standard players out of our junior ranks who many can't compete at this level once introduced..until we get that balance of great players and young talented players all going in a forward direction,we will always have hot and cold displays this year,unfortunately I see it as more cold than hot,I can't wait until we do have a team that we can count on giving a competitive display win lose or draw week to week but being competative is what will make the difference... :D
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Post by supercoach » Sun 22 May, 2016 9:32 am

You look at the teams who have been up around the top of the pile for the past decade have one thing in common, they are very well funded. The Sharks may be the exception, but they now have a very good revenue stream.

On the other hand you look at the teams that continue to struggle like the knights,Titians and us...all have a battle with funding. Once again a team like Parra is a exception, but the very well funded teams certainly have a advantage.

Our funding shortfalls have made us heavily depend on our junior system and it just doesn't work if you do not have four seasoned marque players in key roles.

Anyway who knows in a couple of years we might be a team of champions, but my gut feeling we will be still near the bottom of the pile

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Post by stevetiger » Sun 22 May, 2016 10:48 am

TrueTiger wrote:To me the difference is big money players don't always buy you the results you need,just as hyped up young players don't perform as well once they step up to NRL level,
I think that this is an important point. I think developing a good squad is now about getting value for money players.

So smart recruitment and retention is important. Guys like JAC should be signed up and kept. Guys like Brooks and Moses are clearly players that may never kick on and become players that win us games consistently. We need to be careful paying these guys too much.

I think in the past we've paid guys like Woods, Robbie, Brooks and Moses overs without looking at what they offer us.

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Post by shane2801 » Sun 22 May, 2016 11:36 am

The highlights were the better option TT. Wests and a few other clubs are fast becoming Rugby league's Stillnox.
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Post by GNR4LIFE » Sun 22 May, 2016 11:39 am

The NRL use to be considered a competition where any team could beat any other on any day. No longer the case now, the bottom 4 teams are in another stratosphere to the top 4 teams.


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Post by Snake » Sun 22 May, 2016 11:51 am

supercoach wrote:You look at the teams who have been up around the top of the pile for the past decade have one thing in common, they are very well funded. The Sharks may be the exception, but they now have a very good revenue stream.

On the other hand you look at the teams that continue to struggle like the knights,Titians and us...all have a battle with funding. Once again a team like Parra is a exception, but the very well funded teams certainly have a advantage.

Our funding shortfalls have made us heavily depend on our junior system and it just doesn't work if you do not have four seasoned marque players in key roles.

Anyway who knows in a couple of years we might be a team of champions, but my gut feeling we will be still near the bottom of the pile
Well there is a point where the administration has to take some responsibility for the mess this club is in ATM.. Potter says to club do not sign Farah for a further 2 years now paying $1 mill a season,massive overs for Lawrance ,600k a piece for the halves next season in there favour other plodders signed which were known plodders . So really money does make a difference and so does being a SMART operator in the front office .

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Post by stevetiger » Sun 22 May, 2016 12:06 pm

Snake wrote:
supercoach wrote:You look at the teams who have been up around the top of the pile for the past decade have one thing in common, they are very well funded. The Sharks may be the exception, but they now have a very good revenue stream.

On the other hand you look at the teams that continue to struggle like the knights,Titians and us...all have a battle with funding. Once again a team like Parra is a exception, but the very well funded teams certainly have a advantage.

Our funding shortfalls have made us heavily depend on our junior system and it just doesn't work if you do not have four seasoned marque players in key roles.

Anyway who knows in a couple of years we might be a team of champions, but my gut feeling we will be still near the bottom of the pile
Well there is a point where the administration has to take some responsibility for the mess this club is in ATM.. Potter says to club do not sign Farah for a further 2 years now paying $1 mill a season,massive overs for Lawrance ,600k a piece for the halves next season in there favour other plodders signed which were known plodders . So really money does make a difference and so does being a SMART operator in the front office .
I don't think we underperform due to not having the money. We underperform because we make dud recruitment and retention decisions.
Last edited by stevetiger on Sun 22 May, 2016 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by happy tiger » Sun 22 May, 2016 12:14 pm

We certainly need to bring some proven hard heads into particular positions and every club does that

Very few if any junior programmes can supply an entire team , even the Broncos bring players in

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Post by jadtiger » Sun 22 May, 2016 12:25 pm

Snake wrote:
supercoach wrote:You look at the teams who have been up around the top of the pile for the past decade have one thing in common, they are very well funded. The Sharks may be the exception, but they now have a very good revenue stream.

On the other hand you look at the teams that continue to struggle like the knights,Titians and us...all have a battle with funding. Once again a team like Parra is a exception, but the very well funded teams certainly have a advantage.

Our funding shortfalls have made us heavily depend on our junior system and it just doesn't work if you do not have four seasoned marque players in key roles.

Anyway who knows in a couple of years we might be a team of champions, but my gut feeling we will be still near the bottom of the pile
Well there is a point where the administration has to take some responsibility for the mess this club is in ATM.. Potter says to club do not sign Farah for a further 2 years now paying $1 mill a season,massive overs for Lawrance ,600k a piece for the halves next season in there favour other plodders signed which were known plodders . So really money does make a difference and so does being a SMART operator in the front office .[/quot
heaps of money makes no difference if you have poor admin look at parra,Good admin makes the best with what you have

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Post by Needaname » Sun 22 May, 2016 12:48 pm

Alot of people are talking about how we need a gun backrower and Centre. I'll admit kev is a little hit and miss and who knows who lawernce will partner in the backrow by years end.
For mine the team might not be there but the objective and direction of the team is the closest it's been in years. We have a goal in mind that is cleaning up our salary cap whilst developing the team to be more competitive on a consistent basis. Going all out for player X instead of picking up a,b and c seems like the wrong way about it. Grant, taylor, and to some extent Edwards and ballin are the best signings we could possibly achieve in our current situation. Let's add more of the guys that need a change of scenery. Who knows where we would of been if we went all out for Beau Scott. Weak frontrow, weak bench and a really good right side defence, it's all about balance, sharks are on the money in my opinion.

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Post by supercoach » Sun 22 May, 2016 3:43 pm

Our spine is our major problem, we have a gun in Teddy but Moses and Brooks are at inexperienced to be running the show. You could have probably got away with one young kid at six or seven complemented by a seasoned campaigner along side them, but you can not carry two. Also our no9s are old and slow,once again Farah might be still very effective if we had a Grandville type no9 to give him a rest,but we use Deano and Balin who are also old and slow.
So with the spine being hot and cold the team has little structure and shape to it. At present there is heaps of effort but there are no combinations and very little team work.

Maybe it will come but at present they look like a old ute firing on one cylinder

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Post by diedpretty » Sun 22 May, 2016 3:58 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:The NRL use to be considered a competition where any team could beat any other on any day. No longer the case now, the bottom 4 teams are in another stratosphere to the top 4 teams.
I was watching the game with my Dad yesterday and said exactly the same thing. Its haeding the way of the EPL where only the top4 sides have a realistic chance of winning the premiership - more sides are just making up the numbers than ever before.

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Post by Nelson » Sun 22 May, 2016 4:05 pm

diedpretty wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:The NRL use to be considered a competition where any team could beat any other on any day. No longer the case now, the bottom 4 teams are in another stratosphere to the top 4 teams.
I was watching the game with my Dad yesterday and said exactly the same thing. Its haeding the way of the EPL where only the top4 sides have a realistic chance of winning the premiership - more sides are just making up the numbers than ever before.
Yeah but it's not that many seasons since it was pretty even. Brisbane haven't been at the top for a long period. The Roosters and Souths have fallen this year. I still think it's a more balanced competition than in most professional sports. At the moment a couple of clubs just happen to be reaping the benefits of some good recruitment decisions while some others are suffering from particularly bad decisions. Sure some teams have an advantage that will see them up near the top more often than not (the Broncos) but it's not that bad, they still have occasional lean patches. It just seems a lot worse when your team has been stuck near the bottom for a few years...

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Post by TrueTiger » Sun 22 May, 2016 9:20 pm

Some very good input to this thread...I still think that if we can be in the financial position next year to buy a couple of good players in key positions that will contribute a solid 80 per game,then our younger guys will developed much quicker than playing along side young or older burnt out teammates or fringe first graders...If we can become competitive for the full 80 mins and control the games much better,then this team could progress to the top level of NRL ...I know it is a big IF but the talent and skills are there,we need to let it progress and this is where you really need EXPERIENCE in the key positions that I know we need..
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Post by WestsSupporter » Sun 22 May, 2016 9:42 pm

The general consensus around the NRL community these days is a new player can shine briefly at the start of his career, but will run out of fuel as he starts to get into the grind of being a regular first grader.

Young players need to be well managed when it comes to first grade integration.

Players like Daly Chery-Evans only come along once every so often. 90% of players will not hit the ground running and be able to sustain it.

Ben Hunt is the perfect example of somebody who slowly made his way into the Broncos firsts, and as he began to understand the ins and outs of being an NRL player, the more he was able to harness his abilities. 2014 was a break-out year for him after what must have been 60-70+ games learning the ropes.

Another great example is Jason Taumalolo. By the time he was 18, it was clear he was already ready for the NRL. Management kept his minutes down, his appearances were scattered, but boy, was it worth it! Look at the guy now, absolute gun and contender for best forward in the competition.

We just have no idea when it comes to management. In all facets. I can't be bothered going through the list of usual suspects of hyped up players who fell to earth.
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Post by stevied » Sun 22 May, 2016 11:59 pm

I think the Tigers predicament is a result of a combination of factors, many of which were discussed above. Firstly, the Tigers have made some poor decisions regarding the salary cap which has handcuffed us in terms of seeking and signing new, quality first graders. Examples are the Farah and Lawrence contracts where we signed them for too long and for too much. Also, earlier we were hamstrung by the Blair and Galloway deals. The next thing was making the error of paying overs for perceived 'stars of the future' such as Brooks, Moses and Sironen. Clearly, Brooks and Sironen have been disappointments and, so far, have turned out to be poor investments. None of the three have become consistent first graders and have tended to drag down the competitiveness of the team, instead of strengthen it. The next thing is that the club has made poor decisions concerning the signing and retention of players. It's a subjective topic but recent examples of this are the release of Koro and Taupau. Both needed to be coached properly so the team could benefit from their game breaking ability. What we would do for a bit of aggression and firepower! And coaching is the next issue with the Tigers. We have had three ineffective coaches in a row. Sheens was past it, Potter wasn't strong enough and Taylor falls down in every single area required of a coach. After that we have the lack of sponsorship and financial backing as compared to the stronger clubs. It's clear that we can't compete with teams such as the Roosters who are able to use second party arrangements to entice marquee players. On top of this, as if that wasn't all enough, our board have been shambolic with their lack of leadership and direction. They may be starting to stabilize now but a lot of damage has been done and it's another reason why we can't attract decent players. Finally, there is zero accountability for poor performance in the first grade team and a culture of mediocre attitude, performance and commitment is well entrenched throughout the club. Positions for the boys, unlimited patience with repeated errors and a failure to reward high performing lower graders does nothing to raise the standards of the team or improve morale within the club. Have I left anything out? There is no single factor that explains the dire state of the Tigers. There's a multitude of problems. Some of it's bad luck or experiments gone wrong but mainly it's plain bad management. For us to succeed we need to get nearly everything right and at the moment we're getting virtually everything wrong.
Last edited by stevied on Mon 23 May, 2016 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by WestsSupporter » Mon 23 May, 2016 12:19 am

@stevied on your point of paying overs for 'stars of the future', a trick we've missed is you should be enticing youngsters with means besides money. If a young gun is demanding massive money, you have to let him go. If you can't convince him through things such as guaranteed games, facilities or culture, then you shouldn't keep him.
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Post by PrattenParkMagpie » Mon 23 May, 2016 12:51 am

diedpretty wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:The NRL use to be considered a competition where any team could beat any other on any day. No longer the case now, the bottom 4 teams are in another stratosphere to the top 4 teams.
I was watching the game with my Dad yesterday and said exactly the same thing. Its haeding the way of the EPL where only the top4 sides have a realistic chance of winning the premiership - more sides are just making up the numbers than ever before.
Agree totally, outside the top 5 or 6, the rest of the field is bog ordinary and just making up the numbers, the fact that the Dragons have been borderline top 8 just highlights this, they are very average and oh so boring to watch.

The only side outside the top 6 that can really hold their head up are the Titans, not much was expected of them, though they can’t match the top sides they put in most weeks and have a dig, Panthers could take a lesson from them.
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