Ok, So Why Are We So Soft?

turbodewd
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Re: Ok, So Why Are We So Soft?

Post by turbodewd » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 2:44 pm

why soft? one answer: Woods


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Cultured Bogan
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Post by Cultured Bogan » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 3:18 pm

Geo. wrote:
Cultured Bogan wrote:Get a few of the old Fibros and Tigers hardmen in there every week to read them the riot act.
Noel Kelly was a guest of the Club during the week..
Get Tommy in there to smack the bejesus out of them. He should be on the payroll if only as a motivational speaker.
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Post by Harvey » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 3:34 pm

Because they can be? They serve up dribble and keep their 1st grade spots regardless. Has been happening since Sheens was here. I think that the training needs to be much harder contact. Even players that have shown that mongrel seem to lose it when they get here (Grant, Aloiai).

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Post by pHyR3 » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 3:35 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Geo. wrote:
Cultured Bogan wrote:Get a few of the old Fibros and Tigers hardmen in there every week to read them the riot act.
Noel Kelly was a guest of the Club during the week..
Get Tommy in there to smack the bejesus out of them. He should be on the payroll if only as a motivational speaker.
he gave a speak to the team before the broncos game IIRC
''Everybody talks about their four brothers, we have 17 here so we don't really care about them."

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pHyR3
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Post by pHyR3 » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 3:37 pm

need someone to fire em up every week.

i cant imagine JT revving up a car let alone a footy team

robbie could probably help a lot with that, he bleeds for the team more than almost anyone there right now
''Everybody talks about their four brothers, we have 17 here so we don't really care about them."


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Post by bonstonker » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 4:21 pm

it's our culture.

now you may ask why is it always the same even with different coaches.
for us it has been about bringing in junior talent.
these kids only know the wests tigers way.
they come into grade and it just continues.
we need to start with recruiting the best line speed defenders in the comp and create a new standard in defense.
this also needs to start with u/20 or whatever the comp is in the future.

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Post by mctiger » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 4:47 pm

Harvey wrote:Because they can be? They serve up dribble and keep their 1st grade spots regardless. Has been happening since Sheens was here. I think that the training needs to be much harder contact. Even players that have shown that mongrel seem to lose it when they get here (Grant, Aloiai).
This was in an article written about Adam Blair last year and his time with us.....

"Blair, who has found a new lease of life at the Broncos this year after rediscovering the form that made him one of the most damaging forwards in the NRL, was so committed to the Tigers he even paid out of his own pocket for ­additional training.

“I praised ‘Blairy’ for what he was doing for the club and there seemed to be an agenda there to try and move him out for some reason,’’ Potter, who was dumped by the Tigers at the end of last season, told The Australian yesterday. “I couldn’t understand it because he was one of our best forwards for the two years that I was there.

“He copped a hard time and I thought it was unjustified. People thought the value he was giving the club for his wage wasn’t equitable, but I thought by far he was one of our best forwards for most of last year. There were a couple of people within the organisation that didn’t have that opinion and that’s unfortunate.”

Blair paid for some of his teammates to join him doing extra training outside the club, including Bodene Thompson, Martin Taupau and Sauaso Sue. Potter said their attitude differed from others who thought the club’s program was enough to “get them through”.

“He was exceptional in his training, he wouldn’t compromise on his training, and some of the other players didn’t like the way he trained because he trained too hard for them,’’ Potter said.
“He was going very good for the Tigers and one thing I told him was not to change his work ethic, and his attitude to training, and his attitude to playing because of the peer pressure. People talk about culture and they talk about work ethic and he was one player that you’d have in your team.
“That’s part of the reason Wayne Bennett grabbed him at his first opportunity because he knew the value he added. That’s why Tim Sheens got him (to the Tigers) and he was there when I arrived but you could see the divide there.

“There was some unjustified criticism that was thrown against his desk at Wests Tigers that was unfortunate but you’ve seen some of the stuff that’s gone on there.’’



It's interesting that three of the four players mentioned are no longer with us (and Sue is yet to re-sign). Players that have been in the system a while get used to the culture, don't know it to be different and are unable to change. Benji Marshall even confessed to being “lazy, out-of-shape and lacking desire”. Surely the new brigade (the likes of Sironen etc) see that and act the same?

What does the coach do? Well you drop them, interchange them, don't renew contracts, release them etc) and get in blokes who can lead the change. Elijah Taylor by all accounts is that type of player and I would suspect so is Ballin and we need more of them.

That to me is why Farah needs to go and why Jason Taylor, who of course has made mistakes needs to stay on. He has started making the tough decisions and to get someone else now puts us back many many steps.

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Post by Telltails » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 4:49 pm

Bellamy knows the secret he proves it time and time again Brilliant at replacing players with just as good or better and gets the best from those that he coaches.

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Post by Harvey » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 4:52 pm

mctiger wrote:
Harvey wrote:Because they can be? They serve up dribble and keep their 1st grade spots regardless. Has been happening since Sheens was here. I think that the training needs to be much harder contact. Even players that have shown that mongrel seem to lose it when they get here (Grant, Aloiai).
This was in an article written about Adam Blair last year and his time with us.....

Blair paid for some of his teammates to join him doing extra training outside the club, including Bodene Thompson, Martin Taupau and Sauaso Sue. Potter said their attitude differed from others who thought the club’s program was enough to “get them through”.

“He was exceptional in his training, he wouldn’t compromise on his training, and some of the other players didn’t like the way he trained because he trained too hard for them,’’ Potter said.

What does the coach do? Well you drop them, interchange them, don't renew contracts, release them etc) and get in blokes who can lead the change. Elijah Taylor by all accounts is that type of player and I would suspect so is Ballin and we need more of them.

That to me is why Farah needs to go and why Jason Taylor, who of course has made mistakes needs to stay on. He has started making the tough decisions and to get someone else now puts us back many many steps.
I would have thought if the coach recognises that the clubs program is not enough to produce a high performing NRL side, then it is his job to change the program to one that can. Potter has been good for being a rent a quote for the media commenting on the tigers since he was shown the door. He should focus at his role at the knights.

This article must have been written a while ago, because I do not see Blair as a blockbuster for either the Broncos or the Kiwis.

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Post by mctiger » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 4:59 pm

Harvey wrote:
mctiger wrote:
Harvey wrote:Because they can be? They serve up dribble and keep their 1st grade spots regardless. Has been happening since Sheens was here. I think that the training needs to be much harder contact. Even players that have shown that mongrel seem to lose it when they get here (Grant, Aloiai).
This was in an article written about Adam Blair last year and his time with us.....

Blair paid for some of his teammates to join him doing extra training outside the club, including Bodene Thompson, Martin Taupau and Sauaso Sue. Potter said their attitude differed from others who thought the club’s program was enough to “get them through”.

“He was exceptional in his training, he wouldn’t compromise on his training, and some of the other players didn’t like the way he trained because he trained too hard for them,’’ Potter said.

What does the coach do? Well you drop them, interchange them, don't renew contracts, release them etc) and get in blokes who can lead the change. Elijah Taylor by all accounts is that type of player and I would suspect so is Ballin and we need more of them.

That to me is why Farah needs to go and why Jason Taylor, who of course has made mistakes needs to stay on. He has started making the tough decisions and to get someone else now puts us back many many steps.
I would have thought if the coach recognises that the clubs program is not enough to produce a high performing NRL side, then it is his job to change the program to one that can. Potter has been good for being a rent a quote for the media commenting on the tigers since he was shown the door. He should focus at his role at the knights.

This article must have been written a while ago, because I do not see Blair as a blockbuster for either the Broncos or the Kiwis.
1. It was October 2015
2. I am not usually a fan of comments such as this from disgruntled players/coaches (Braith Anasta anyone) but this is an interesting insight and goes to your initial point.

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Post by NT Tiger » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 5:05 pm

No on field leadership.
Little aggression in the attitude.
Little real camaraderie in the playing group. The team does not appear to be playing as a team.
Players are selected because they have been heavily invested in, or because they are seen as legends.
Other players see this and realise that they are carrying those 'sanctioned' players. The result is paycheck motivation.
"Quality Stupidity"

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Post by Fordy20 » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 5:21 pm

mctiger wrote:2. I am not usually a fan of comments such as this from disgruntled players/coaches (Braith Anasta anyone) but this is an interesting insight and goes to your initial point.
Further more, Potter put together a forward pack with mongrel that was beating the crap of opposition packs. That prop rotation of Blair, Woods and Galloway being spelled by Gavet, Taupau and Sue steamrolled some highly rated packs like the Cowboys, Souths and Manly. Taupau, Blair and Gavet went out there to hurt people and Taupau and Gavet loved putting big hits on people.

Since Potter's departure we have gone back to the days of having a forward pack that doesn't hit with any venom or intent. Now every man and his dog is calling Woods a cat and stat padder because he's the only one making any decent metres, but we need an enforcer willing to play hard and aggressively like the Greg Bird's, Beau Scott's and JWHs of this world.

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Post by Goose » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 5:39 pm

ragedmachine wrote:There's always talk of the 'future', the 'future'. It has to start somewhere and investing in young juniors with 'promise' does not always yield.

If I was in charge (and if WT had the cap to afford it), I would have no hesitation in signing the below players:

Beau Scott
Greg Bird
Wade Graham
Ben Matulino
Kenny Bromwich
Sam Moa
None of those guys have won anything.

Being hard and tough is overrated in the modern game.

We dont get beat in the middle cause we are soft generally. Normally we get beat when we are slow at marker and slow to retreat. We have a few blokes who dont win the tackle in defence enough (Sue, halatau, Josh A and Ava) None are soft and Sue and Ava are improving.

If we lose an early tackle we are poor recovers, I reckon that is a bit of inexperience and a bit of immobility.

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Post by kafta » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 5:44 pm

Lack of hooker's and viagra

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 5:56 pm

Did anyone honestly think we could match the Roosters size and speed in those conditions

Especially when matched with their kicking game

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Post by LCA » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 5:59 pm

turbodewd wrote:why soft? one answer: Woods
Wow. You've spoken the unspeakable.

Woods is possibly the 10th best front rower in the NRL...possibly.

But yet, he is OUR enforcer, OUR captain and leader. No way in this world is he entitled to that status.

He is not in the ballpark of the seriously aggressive, intelligent, inspiring enforcer types that other clubs enjoy.

In reality, I think Ava and Sue and Grant and Lovett and Lawrence et al respond to the presence and leadership of Woods. Except, it's second rate by comparison!

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Post by stevetiger » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 6:42 pm

bonstonker wrote:it's our culture.

now you may ask why is it always the same even with different coaches.
for us it has been about bringing in junior talent.
these kids only know the wests tigers way.
they come into grade and it just continues.
we need to start with recruiting the best line speed defenders in the comp and create a new standard in defense.
this also needs to start with u/20 or whatever the comp is in the future.
I don't believe any of this. We need to balance defence and attack. We need to have a coaching staff that know how to prepare a team and get them up for games. We need a quality squad.

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Post by jctiger » Mon 06 Jun, 2016 7:04 pm

happy tiger wrote:Did anyone honestly think we could match the Roosters size and speed in those conditions

Especially when matched with their kicking game
We could of if we had some line speed.
We don't move up, we just stand there waiting for them to come to us.
By the time we make contact they have all the momentum and put us on our backsides instead of us knocking them down.
When we have the ball they are meeting us at the ruck hense the trouble we always have making ground against the bigger sides.
I'd like to blame the refs for allowing them to be offside but on the weekend our line speed was non existent.

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