Chee-Kam

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Kavi
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Re: Chee-Kam

Post by Kavi » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 10:49 am

maxxy86 wrote:He 100% should be in the 17.....but I don't think our coach wants to tell his good buddy Kyle that he's not required.
A He can cover the centre position
B He has more impact in attack and defence
C We need impact off the bench
x2


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Post by stevied » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 12:00 pm

maxxy86 wrote:He 100% should be in the 17.....but I don't think our coach wants to tell his good buddy Kyle that he's not required.
A He can cover the centre position
B He has more impact in attack and defence
C We need impact off the bench
Well summarized. It's a clear case of playing favourites instead of selecting the most potent bench players available. It takes courage in your conviction to drop a player that you like as a bloke and who tries hard but who does not bring enough impact to the bench. JT has clearly done some good work with the young Tigers team, but I cannot respect his inconsistency and poor decision making regarding team selections. I supported the strong stand of dropping Farah due to attitude issues but I can't support his refusal to replace an under performing player with someone who is in better from and has more versatility. Ridiculous - it's a make or break game!

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Post by jirskyr » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 12:03 pm

Tuiaki Chicken Wings wrote:
jirskyr wrote:I posted in the team thread, I think it's about minutes. JT's bench rotation requires a long-minute player in case of injuries, because he cannot leave Halatau on for the whole match.

MCK doesn't have those kind of long minutes in him.
Chee Kam played 55 odd minutes against the Warriors, made good metres and made his tackles. He did well for a bloke you think doesn't have the minutes in him. It's not only that, but Lovett doesn't dominate in any area. Yes he has improved but he is dominated in 95% of tackles, and when he tackles, yes he makes them but doesn't really dominate in those either.
What I am saying is a guess based on what JT has previously said about his bench in press conferences, plus the odd TigerTorch comment.

I personally think MCK has much more to offer than Lovett, and I believe he can only improve his fitness by playing more regularly.

But I am trying to understand the coach's decision / mindset rather than just throwing my arms up in frustration.

Firstly, I doubt very much MCK can play 70+ minutes in the forwards in the case of an injury, which is more likely to occur with the current concussion rule. Lovett has been used for more than 69 minutes in 6/22 games this year.

Specifically in the previous match, MCK played 51 mins according to NRL.com but he spent a good amount of that in the centres (esp when Rankin went to DH), not in the middle. He mad 80 metres from 8 runs, with 19 tackles (2 missed).

Lovett's last game against Penrith was 50 mins, with 77m from 11 runs and 28 tackles (2 missed).

Therefore the offensive output was roughly the same - MCK took better runs but Lovett made more tackles. But again Lovett is usually stuck in the middle and MCK tends to get played out wide or in the centre slot.

There is also the question of whether MCK can provide those 50 minutes every week and how he pulls up, because Lovett has played 22 NRL games with that kind of output, MCK has played 3.

I would still choose MCK because in my opinion you choose the team with the greatest impact possible. But I also understand that there is a very fine line about having toiler-type players in your team who do ugly long-minute work without ever being flashy. Maybe earlier in the year I would support Lovett's inclusion, but I feel that role is better filled by ET (high tackle count) and Edwards (effective tackles), which allows us to select MCK.

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Post by cqtiger » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 12:18 pm

I'm ok with keeping Lovett in the team over Chee-Kam.
Lovett is an improving first grader who has been in the team most of the year and I see no real value in replacing him with another bog average player who has only played a few first grade games this year.

I think it will be a good fight to see who gets the nod next year for a spot. Maybe not either of them?
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse
– Henry Ford

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Post by barra » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 1:42 pm

Based on his performance against the Warriors, I'd have Chee-Kam for sure. He brought a lot of energy, ran effectively with the ball and was looking to defend with some sting. Pretty mobile for a player his size and obviously offers versatility... what's not to like about that??

He really looked like he was playing for a position and it was great to see that sort of enthusiasm, should be rewarded IMO.

Chee-Kam> Lovett and Sirro.


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Post by avocadoontoast » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 2:26 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:I don't get the sudden attraction for him. He's yet to cement a fg position at any club he's played. He's a fringe first grader at best.
The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 2:33 pm

avocadoontoast wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:I don't get the sudden attraction for him. He's yet to cement a fg position at any club he's played. He's a fringe first grader at best.
The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..
That's debateable

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Post by avocadoontoast » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 2:47 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:
avocadoontoast wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:I don't get the sudden attraction for him. He's yet to cement a fg position at any club he's played. He's a fringe first grader at best.
The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..
That's debateable
After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :D

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 3:06 pm

avocadoontoast wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:
avocadoontoast wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:I don't get the sudden attraction for him. He's yet to cement a fg position at any club he's played. He's a fringe first grader at best.
The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..
That's debateable
After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :D
What are you talking about, i've never claimed him to be anything more than he is. He shows more heart than certain other overhyped first graders, which makes up for what he lacks in natural talant, and as a result the team doesn't lose anything.

MCK is a depth player, nothing more. When JJ is a regular next yr, it will be another guy MCK is behind.

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Post by avocadoontoast » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 3:15 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:
avocadoontoast wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:
avocadoontoast wrote:
The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..
That's debateable
After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :D
What are you talking about, i've never claimed him to be anything more than he is. He shows more heart than certain other overhyped first graders, which makes up for what he lacks in natural talant, and as a result the team doesn't lose anything.

MCK is a depth player, nothing more. When JJ is a regular next yr, it will be another guy MCK is behind.
Ok. Whatever you say champ.

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Post by 851 » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 5:01 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:
avocadoontoast wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:
avocadoontoast wrote:
The sudden attraction is that he is better than the people that are picked every week..
That's debateable
After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :D
What are you talking about, i've never claimed him to be anything more than he is. He shows more heart than certain other overhyped first graders, which makes up for what he lacks in natural talant, and as a result the team doesn't lose anything.

MCK is a depth player, nothing more. When JJ is a regular next yr, it will be another guy MCK is behind.
Like Lovett, Rankin and a few others who get picked every week.
Go hard or go home

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Post by GNR4LIFE » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 5:14 pm

851 wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:
avocadoontoast wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote: That's debateable
After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :D
What are you talking about, i've never claimed him to be anything more than he is. He shows more heart than certain other overhyped first graders, which makes up for what he lacks in natural talant, and as a result the team doesn't lose anything.

MCK is a depth player, nothing more. When JJ is a regular next yr, it will be another guy MCK is behind.
Like Lovett, Rankin and a few others who get picked every week.
They aren't being used as depth players though. MCK is.

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Post by avocadoontoast » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 5:19 pm

GNR4LIFE wrote:
851 wrote:
GNR4LIFE wrote:
avocadoontoast wrote:
After watching the performance of Lovett and Lawrence against Penrith (and more broadly the last couple of months) and then seeing MCK against the Warriors, I think the debate for that is now over.

There is nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong about Lovett - it's ok. We're all human. :D
What are you talking about, i've never claimed him to be anything more than he is. He shows more heart than certain other overhyped first graders, which makes up for what he lacks in natural talant, and as a result the team doesn't lose anything.

MCK is a depth player, nothing more. When JJ is a regular next yr, it will be another guy MCK is behind.
Like Lovett, Rankin and a few others who get picked every week.
They aren't being used as depth players though. MCK is.
And that's what's so frightening.

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Post by Tigerboy » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 5:32 pm

Taylor must be stopped. Nah I kid, he's done what he could with CL X Lovett as we both know they're probably well below ability wise to other packs' second rowers, but after a week off for the both of them they might just be our energy in D for this game
Changes will be made next year you better believe it

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Post by formerguest » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 7:20 pm

As I posted elsewhere, MCK is obviously rated, though having only played a few games due to our lack of injuries and probably has only played reserves as he is basically our eighteenth player and has to get match fitness some time. Bottom line is the guy knows his value, having recently extended his WT stay.

Lovett has been doing his job, simple as that, as has a resurgent Edwards. Sirro, well I thought he was going okay for one that was asked to play pretty well eighty each week and was given a shot at redemption last week, but didn't get to state his case after waking up crook and only playing a cameo

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Post by Geo. » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 8:17 pm

851 wrote: Like Lovett, Rankin and a few others who get picked every week.
A few...Which few..?
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..

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Post by Born tiger » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 8:28 pm

Siro > MCK > Lovett

Definitely rate MCK more than Lovett, but Lovett has played majority of games this year and has done nothing wrong to be dropped..

Thing I like about Lovett is that he always takes the tough hit ups, the ones most forwards don't want to take, inside the red zone.

Next year will definitely have to lift his game to get a spot but deserves his spot for the rest of the year..

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Post by Tigerboy » Wed 31 Aug, 2016 9:31 pm

formerguest wrote:As I posted elsewhere, MCK is obviously rated, though having only played a few games due to our lack of injuries and probably has only played reserves as he is basically our eighteenth player and has to get match fitness some time. Bottom line is the guy knows his value, having recently extended his WT stay.

Lovett has been doing his job, simple as that, as has a resurgent Edwards. Sirro, well I thought he was going okay for one that was asked to play pretty well eighty each week and was given a shot at redemption last week, but didn't get to state his case after waking up crook and only playing a cameo
Who's fault is it that he got sick ?

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