Gotta fix that right side defence

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Flippedy
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Re: Gotta fix that right side defence

Post by Flippedy » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:56 pm

cktiger wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:36 pm
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:30 pm
Flippedy wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:04 pm
clifferdSH wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:50 am
If Inglis wasn't playing injured he would've shredded that side to pieces imo
Yep that's the reality isn't it? As much as I'm enjoying the win and how we played as a team, a Souths side with Reynolds and a fit Inglis would've probably won that game. Hell Goodwin still even managed to score a hat trick! But overall, their whole team seemed to shut off when Inglis went down and we capitalised on it.
We monstered their pack and put them on their backs all night. Nor could they stop our offloads. How you come to that conclusion is somewhat mystifying.
We played well to win but Bryson Goodwin scored 3 tries ... that in itself is a worry.
Not sure what is wrong with Souths forwards but, apart from Sam Burgess, they don't even look like they're trying

Pretty much this ^^^ GNR is why I came to that conclusion.
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Post by innsaneink » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 3:11 pm

Flippedy wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:56 pm
cktiger wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:36 pm
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:30 pm
Flippedy wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:04 pm


Yep that's the reality isn't it? As much as I'm enjoying the win and how we played as a team, a Souths side with Reynolds and a fit Inglis would've probably won that game. Hell Goodwin still even managed to score a hat trick! But overall, their whole team seemed to shut off when Inglis went down and we capitalised on it.
We monstered their pack and put them on their backs all night. Nor could they stop our offloads. How you come to that conclusion is somewhat mystifying.
We played well to win but Bryson Goodwin scored 3 tries ... that in itself is a worry.
Not sure what is wrong with Souths forwards but, apart from Sam Burgess, they don't even look like they're trying

Pretty much this ^^^ GNR is why I came to that conclusion.
It's a big big worry.
I just turn away nowadays when the ball heads that way

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Post by Geo. » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 3:13 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 1:25 am
willow wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:52 am
Yep, Frozone and Nofo still get caught out too much. Not sure what the solution is, maybe if Idris is fully fit you play him on the left and Chee-Kam on the right at Kev's expense...
I still don't know if we have a choice anymore but to play Taylor in defence on the right and Sue defends in the middle and switch them back in attack

As someone said last night our edges still look very fragile and many teams will throw a hell of a lot more at us than Souths did

Soon as Cook was switched to dummy half and we got attacked with speed up the guts our whole defence system struggled , but then again that could of been match fitness , you just don't know at this early stage of the season

OK i'll try and simplify it for you as you were banging on about our new D structures being complicated remember...

Moving Taylor to an edge in D will take away one of our major assets...controlling the Ruck..Taylor is our most effective defender in this area...he excels at it..When you lose the middle it just adds more pressure to our edges...Sauaso is a hitter not so much a controller..

You just said yourself when Cook came on we lost the guts...Have a guess who was off the field at the same time....start with T...
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Post by happy tiger » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 3:22 pm

Geo. wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 3:13 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 1:25 am
willow wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:52 am
Yep, Frozone and Nofo still get caught out too much. Not sure what the solution is, maybe if Idris is fully fit you play him on the left and Chee-Kam on the right at Kev's expense...
I still don't know if we have a choice anymore but to play Taylor in defence on the right and Sue defends in the middle and switch them back in attack

As someone said last night our edges still look very fragile and many teams will throw a hell of a lot more at us than Souths did

Soon as Cook was switched to dummy half and we got attacked with speed up the guts our whole defence system struggled , but then again that could of been match fitness , you just don't know at this early stage of the season

OK i'll try and simplify it for you as you were banging on about our new D structures being complicated remember...

Moving Taylor to an edge in D will take away one of our major assets...controlling the Ruck..Taylor is our most effective defender in this area...he excels at it..When you lose the middle it just adds more pressure to our edges...Sauaso is a hitter not so much a controller..

You just said yourself when Cook came on we lost the guts...Have a guess who was off the field at the same time....start with T...
No Geo ,Ballin banged on about our complicated new defensive system

I just respected the opinion of a 200 + game veteran who has worked with some strong defensive units over the years

Also I believe Ballin could fill Taylor's role in the middle of the ruck once he is back ....not as good granted , but we can't have our edges basically unprotected to really simple backline moves

I'm just trying like many others to think of away we can have one really strong side defensively and try and allow some latitude to the other side

We are far better under the high ball , our middle has improved greatly , and Moses has become a smarter defender

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 4:07 pm

Flippedy wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 1:18 pm
Harvey wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:26 pm
Flippedy wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:04 pm
clifferdSH wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:50 am
If Inglis wasn't playing injured he would've shredded that side to pieces imo
Yep that's the reality isn't it? As much as I'm enjoying the win and how we played as a team, a Souths side with Reynolds and a fit Inglis would've probably won that game. Hell Goodwin still even managed to score a hat trick! But overall, their whole team seemed to shut off when Inglis went down and we capitalised on it.
And if we played against a team of Marvel superheroes, they probably would beat us. Jeez you can only play what is in front of you, and we beat souths fairly comprehensively last night.

No one is saying that we didn't win fairly and comprehensively last night, but this thread is a discussion about our defensive weaknesses down the edges, particularly the right side, which was still glaringly obvious last night, despite our comprehensive victory. That a busted team can still expose this weakness for 4 tries is a real concern, imo. If it is not fixed soon, the stronger sides we play will run riot. It was a big weakness last season also, yet it still exists! I don't know what the answer is, but the coaching staff and team need to find it quickly or else watch the season slip away.
I agree.
Two points is what matters today.
But to not see that we did it against a team with a complete passenger from the 10 th or 15th minute , plus had some soft tries scored by them against us , is just being blind to the obvious chinks. The worry is that it's not changed. Despite a full preseason.
I don't think that any other Coach is going to give us the assistance that Maguire did last night.


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Post by Tiger4life » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 11:21 pm

Kev has to go. His attack was what kept him in the lineup but he looked pedestrian at best in attack and defence. Chee kam should be one centre and maybe suli the other centre. You either give kev a shot on the wing or you bring up someone from the reggies or toyota cup. I still think Moses has to stop rushing up and is a major reason it all goes haywire.

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Post by jadtiger » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 5:10 am

tigermac88 wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:38 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 1:25 am
willow wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:52 am
Yep, Frozone and Nofo still get caught out too much. Not sure what the solution is, maybe if Idris is fully fit you play him on the left and Chee-Kam on the right at Kev's expense...
I still don't know if we have a choice anymore but to play Taylor in defence on the right and Sue defends in the middle and switch them back in attack

As someone said last night our edges still look very fragile and many teams will throw a hell of a lot more at us than Souths did

Soon as Cook was switched to dummy half and we got attacked with speed up the guts our whole defence system struggled , but then again that could of been match fitness , you just don't know at this early stage of the season

I like the idea of swapping Taylor and sue in defence,then from there you could even try putting Moses inside Taylor in defence if Taylor has the speed that is, but then that will take away from Moses attack as he'll do more defending. I'm not sure what the answer is but something needs to be done. I think the time has come for Kev to go.
Kev should have gone ages ago he is a liability in defence

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Post by Mighty Tiger » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 8:16 am

The only way to fix it is when Kev leaves.

Mitch and Nofo arn't the problem, its hard to defend when your center always either rushes up or in all the time & other teams have worked him out.

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Post by Tigerdon » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 10:33 am

Idris was just what we needed in the backline. He was crunching blokes in defence. I thought he made the right decisions in defence.
Also I thought MKC played well while he was at centre.
I'd go with these two.
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Post by Telltails » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 1:03 pm

I will have to watch it again. ,- but I thought Idris looked not ready for FG. Thought he missed tackles, timing looked out and generally looked slow. Will give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment but I certainly wouldn't be starting him yet.
Think we have to let him build confidence before throwing him in the deep end to solve an ongoing problem. I will be interested to see how JT uses him next week based on that performance.

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Post by Mighty Tiger » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 1:08 pm

Telltails wrote:
Sun 05 Mar, 2017 1:03 pm
I will have to watch it again. ,- but I thought Idris looked not ready for FG. Thought he missed tackles, timing looked out and generally looked slow. Will give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment but I certainly wouldn't be starting him yet.
Think we have to let him build confidence before throwing him in the deep end to solve an ongoing problem. I will be interested to see how JT uses him next week based on that performance.
Early on when he came on you are right, after about 10mins he started to improve without the ball in his hands (lines, support runs, defence, cover etc wasn't bad at all). With the ball he struggled to bend the line but he wasn't getting great field position when he had his runs.

I would give him a few weeks, he has been out of the game & playing him in NSW Cup won't achive much at all.

MCK looked sharp, maybe we can swap MCK or Idris for Kev.

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Post by TIGER » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 3:47 pm

Inglis literally walking over the line on one leg was pretty bad IMO.

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Post by bigsiro » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 5:55 pm

TIGER wrote:
Sun 05 Mar, 2017 3:47 pm
Inglis literally walking over the line on one leg was pretty bad IMO.
Gawd that was terrible.
And we think our left side has problems!
But seriously, Kev gotta have a rest. Even if he scores tries it is the fact that he lets in 3 every game (at least).
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Post by Nelson » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 6:07 pm

tigermac88 wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 2:38 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 1:25 am
willow wrote:
Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:52 am
Yep, Frozone and Nofo still get caught out too much. Not sure what the solution is, maybe if Idris is fully fit you play him on the left and Chee-Kam on the right at Kev's expense...
I still don't know if we have a choice anymore but to play Taylor in defence on the right and Sue defends in the middle and switch them back in attack

As someone said last night our edges still look very fragile and many teams will throw a hell of a lot more at us than Souths did

Soon as Cook was switched to dummy half and we got attacked with speed up the guts our whole defence system struggled , but then again that could of been match fitness , you just don't know at this early stage of the season

I like the idea of swapping Taylor and sue in defence,then from there you could even try putting Moses inside Taylor in defence if Taylor has the speed that is, but then that will take away from Moses attack as he'll do more defending. I'm not sure what the answer is but something needs to be done. I think the time has come for Kev to go.
ET should stay in the middle. Defending on an edge is not the same and he won't necessarily be a dominant defender on an edge. You'd just be weakening the middle by moving him.

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Post by NT Tiger » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 7:08 pm

Mighty Tiger wrote:
Sun 05 Mar, 2017 1:08 pm
Telltails wrote:
Sun 05 Mar, 2017 1:03 pm
I will have to watch it again. ,- but I thought Idris looked not ready for FG. Thought he missed tackles, timing looked out and generally looked slow. Will give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment but I certainly wouldn't be starting him yet.
Think we have to let him build confidence before throwing him in the deep end to solve an ongoing problem. I will be interested to see how JT uses him next week based on that performance.
Early on when he came on you are right, after about 10mins he started to improve without the ball in his hands (lines, support runs, defence, cover etc wasn't bad at all). With the ball he struggled to bend the line but he wasn't getting great field position when he had his runs.

I would give him a few weeks, he has been out of the game & playing him in NSW Cup won't achive much at all.

MCK looked sharp, maybe we can swap MCK or Idris for Kev.
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Post by NT Tiger » Sun 05 Mar, 2017 7:09 pm

bigsiro wrote:
Sun 05 Mar, 2017 5:55 pm
TIGER wrote:
Sun 05 Mar, 2017 3:47 pm
Inglis literally walking over the line on one leg was pretty bad IMO.
Gawd that was terrible.
And we think our left side has problems!
But seriously, Kev gotta have a rest. Even if he scores tries it is the fact that he lets in 3 every game (at least).
I agree his time has come
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Post by maxxy86 » Mon 06 Mar, 2017 12:18 pm

If it comes down to communication out there, I reckon Hunt would add plenty to our right side. He wouldn't be scared to call out anyone and is quite a good defender from what I've seen.
Chances are running out for frozone so maybe the next 2 rounds will decipher whether he holds his centre spot.
Well its nearly time to have a 'CRACK'....Go you :sign:

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Post by jirskyr » Mon 06 Mar, 2017 1:52 pm

Mighty Tiger wrote:
Sun 05 Mar, 2017 8:16 am
The only way to fix it is when Kev leaves.

Mitch and Nofo arn't the problem, its hard to defend when your center always either rushes up or in all the time & other teams have worked him out.
Maybe last year, but on Friday Frozone didn't make many defensive errors. There were 3 RHS tries but he only defended on that side for 1 of them.

I don't think you can say Moses isn't the problem, the guy misses tackles, darts out of the line and commits his shoulder to dummy runners a lot. He's improving but the guy is a liability and it makes the players inside and out nervous.

There are currently 5 really bad culprits for defensive mistakes, based on both Friday and their previous history:
Kev - mostly for the rush up mistakes
Nofo - he gets stuck a lot, he has to come in with his centre or call them across and back off. He can't just stay rooted to the spot and he does this often
Moses - less missed tackles obviously, but they also use second-man plays on him a lot and he makes poor choices
Sue - he can be quite lazy and I'm not impressed by how often he bounces off tackles. All fixable but he's involved in quite a few issues.
Brooks - missed tackles and tackle selection. I personally think he's worse than Moses for MTs because he's a bigger lad and when he does hit properly they are good tackles, so he mostly misses because he's being lazy or grabbing. Brooks also has the luxury of defending outside Lawrence and inside Simona then Idris, who are both pretty good 1-1 defenders even on big men.

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