We cant keep carrying ET

goldcoast tiger
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Re: We cant keep carrying ET

Post by goldcoast tiger » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:22 am

tig_prmz wrote:
Fri 19 May, 2017 10:19 pm
i get where you're coming from but he's not the problem in the team
There's no one problem in the team . There's a lot of them. And apart from Packer amd maybe Renolds( if he can be controlled) I agree with King Sirro that there are questions over the type of player we are chasing ( if the reports are even partly correct) Picu , LoLo etc
I think that ET has been great for us. But KS stats show a very big downside to his game. The other problem we have has been shown clearly in the last couple of weeks. Unless Tedesco is going well, we don't have anyone who can consistently make line breaks or get over the line.
Nofa is maybe the only the other one likely,


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Post by king sirro » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:48 am

clokan wrote:
Fri 19 May, 2017 10:31 pm
king sirro wrote:
Fri 19 May, 2017 10:25 pm
clokan wrote:
Fri 19 May, 2017 10:22 pm
can't expect the lock to make yards when the forward pack is getting owned
This makes no sense to me at all. He is one of the guys employed to make yards and ensure out pack doesnt get owned. If you said "you cant expect the halves to do anything when the forward pack is getting owned" i would agree with you, but you cant say that about one of our middle player starters cos thats where getting owned starts.
maybe I could have said it better, our forward pack got owned I don't see the need to single him out, none of them delivered
True
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Post by 05TIGZ » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:51 am

Russta wrote:
Fri 19 May, 2017 11:11 pm
Geo. wrote:
Fri 19 May, 2017 10:49 pm
I have a better thread title...we can't afford Elijah Taylor to keep carrying the team...
Spot on Geo. Without ET our score lines would horrendous.
His role in our team is not to be a taumololo and pump the ball forward. His role in attack is to be a link to the halves and get the halves wider in attack. In defense he is our rock. He is doing his role very well. Our go forward is lacking due to inept forward that go sideways and backwards. For the life of me how edwards and lovett keep getting selected is bewildering. Time to blood marsters, felise and tatola.

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Post by king sirro » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:00 am

Black'n'White wrote:
Fri 19 May, 2017 10:31 pm
I think you covered it well, for this minute in our existence.... but on the same token he is as good for us as he is detrimental this season.

Fast forward to next year, and Reynolds changes the dynamic alot, he is Foran half the skill 5 times the heart, a running 6 that plays effectively as a ball playing backrower.

You can either say ET doesnt fit because our back rowers are sub par, hence the need for a bigger lock. But turn it on its head and say our back rowers dont fit because we are using a workhorse ball playing lock... For all my reasoning, I cannot blame our lack of penetration on a single man who produces so much honest work (he doesnt pad stats like Farah third man in a tackle, he is first up hitting), and let the 2nd row off scott free.

I suppose my argument is put any second row, and a complete front row around Taylor and he is still an integral cog in the machine. I dont think we could swap many of our pack into other line ups and say as much.

So I kinda agree, good cog, wrong machne. Does the cog need to change or the machine... thats the big question.
I think this is a good post among many good posts in this thread. Some agree with me, some dont and some see both sides. I can see both sides too. I would certainly like to see how he looks with a more aggressive and bigger pack.
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Post by hugh1954 » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:02 am

Agree totally its time to start blooding fellise, tatola and marsters, we have the balance of the season to give them a solid taste of first grade, edwards is not our future, lovett does give his all and might be a option with a solid front row but lets start NOW. ET is our Kevin Hardwick and i loved Kevin


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Post by Earl » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:20 am

Chicken Faced Killa wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 7:22 am
Can't blame ET it's the balance of the backrow that is the problem. We have no one with any punch to take some heat off the props. The concern is we haven't signed anyone to change it for next year. We need to start giving some young guys a taste of the top grade to start preparing them.
I think it's the whole pack that is a problem. I reckon Lawrence, ET & Aloiai are the only guys who are really decent first graders. Woods is a good first grade player but his soft hit-ups and slow play the balls impact the team to me more than ET. Sue & Grant have their moments but they make mistakes. Thompson last night was caught out defensively.

If you look at Blair he really isn't that good a player. He has good line speed and puts in every game but he doesn't have the ability to dent the line. He is though slotted into a great pack and his deficiencies aren't really noticeable.

We could though really do with an impact player in the forwards. If Idris could get his act together I reckon he could fill that role or we have to go to market and buy someone.

I think our pack though will be much better next year.

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Post by Harvey » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:55 am

Tiger Come Lately wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 5:57 am

Our problem is, Grant, Sue, Ava and the back row.
How does Woods get off scott free there? Lawrence does much more than him. Edwards contributes less in attack than ET and the sooner a replacement is found the better.

I can't believe that we did not push Parra for a player to help out here to release Moses. Even someone like Twal, Alvaro, Gower that is not necessarily part of their first 17, but would help here.

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Post by Yossarian » Sat 20 May, 2017 9:14 am

This is the same guy who made 41 tackles last night? Many clubs play props at lock. Taylor is an old school lock - one who tackles and has some ball skills. I don't think he's the problem.

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Post by Muffstar » Sat 20 May, 2017 9:44 am

Why not we keep carrying Lawrence. And I don't think we are carrying Taylor actually, he punches above his weight imo.

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Post by InBenjiWeTrust » Sat 20 May, 2017 10:06 am

our problem is that our main forward runs more meters than our 2 2nd rowers, lock and a prop, game after game, season after season. Hopefully with Matulino, Packer, McQueen, Eastwood, and .. ? the team will be more balanced :sign:

8 Matulino
10 Packer
11 McQueen
12 Taylor
13 Eastwood

14 Twal
15 Tatola
16 Aloiai
17 Liddle

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Post by Harvey » Sat 20 May, 2017 10:09 am

Muffstar wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 9:44 am
Why not we keep carrying Lawrence. And I don't think we are carrying Taylor actually, he punches above his weight imo.
Spot on. Lawrence is holding back our superstars such as Edwards, Sue, Grant, Ava, MWZ, Kev, MCK, etc. If they weren't being forced to carry him, we would be premiership contenders.

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Post by Tiger Watto » Sat 20 May, 2017 1:00 pm

I can see where your going KS and believe our number 1 problem [among many] starts with lack of meters in the middle. While I see the value in ET, I believe we need 3 Props to open the game to get us going forward better. Its an old adage, but if you compete in the opening 20-30min in the middle, it still goes along way to building the right platform to win the game.

I feel our bench is also part of this problem and dont think we can carry a backrower. We need more tall timber to grind out the meters!
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Post by jirskyr » Sat 20 May, 2017 1:49 pm

Yossarian wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 9:14 am
This is the same guy who made 41 tackles last night? Many clubs play props at lock. Taylor is an old school lock - one who tackles and has some ball skills. I don't think he's the problem.
I agree with this entirely.

I appreciate OP for the thought process, I do raise an eyebrow of someone who is suspicious of stats, but brings them out anyway. The idea that "some stats are so damning they have to have meaning" (paraphrasing) is absolutely subjective - where do you draw the line as towards the damnation of a set of data or trends?

What I agree with Yoss is KS has pulled out clubs where the 13 is a prop. A lot of clubs have an ET-type player, he might not necessarily be at #13, but he's in there somewhere. Gavin Cooper made 56m in 80 mins on Thursday, John Asiata starting prop made 86m, Luke Lewis made 30m in 80 mins. Last night Ryan Hoffman made 49m in 80 mins, Bunty Afoa made 56m at #13, Tyson Frizell and Tariq Sims both made 80-odd metres in 50-odd minutes.

Tigers don't have an 80m tackle machine hooker, so ET has to pick some of that up.

And the primary issue is the lack of punch in the 2nd row. You can put ET at #12 and a monster in #13, but we basically have 3 ET builds in the backrow and that's not enough firepower for the modern game, esp with only Woods making genuine yards each match.

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Post by Steve k » Sat 20 May, 2017 2:17 pm

I have to agree dont know what all this love is for ET,we need someone much more effective than this bloke.

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Post by Lidcombe Magpie » Sat 20 May, 2017 3:36 pm

I would play him at 5/8. Great defender to help Brooks and has a solid passing game. Gives him more space to run as well. Replace him at lock with Marsters.

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Post by Fade To Black » Sat 20 May, 2017 4:00 pm

Steve k wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 2:17 pm
I have to agree dont know what all this love is for ET,we need someone much more effective than this bloke.
Sure. Who is your nomination? Elijah puts in more effort and determination than the rest of our pack combined. Would hate to think what our team would be like without ET. Heart and soul player, he is a champ. Summed it up near the end of the game last night when him and Woods were sitting on the bench, ET was 100% spent, just slumped over in exhaustion and Woods is sitting there fresh playing with his hair next to him.

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Post by Steve k » Sat 20 May, 2017 4:34 pm

Fade To Black wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 4:00 pm
Steve k wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 2:17 pm
I have to agree dont know what all this love is for ET,we need someone much more effective than this bloke.
Sure. Who is your nomination? Elijah puts in more effort and determination than the rest of our pack combined. Would hate to think what our team would be like without ET. Heart and soul player, he is a champ. Summed it up near the end of the game last night when him and Woods were sitting on the bench, ET was 100% spent, just slumped over in exhaustion and Woods is sitting there fresh playing with his hair next to him.
Mate he wouldnt make many first grade sides,yeah he tries very hard but very average compared to everyone elses lock,we need to buy better.

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Post by VanillaThunder » Sat 20 May, 2017 4:59 pm

king sirro wrote:
Fri 19 May, 2017 10:06 pm
The blind love for this guy will mean my post wont be read objectively by many, so i will get hammered for this, but it has to be said.
Wish I could cc: this to Jirskyr as well, because he made some very valid points, but I think it's also worth noting that ET simply doesn't make many runs. When he does, he isn't manhandled (Lovett, Edwards) or loses tackles (Woods). He got absolutely smashed by Burgess but got up and made an extra few metres. ET is one of our best (though not MoM the last few weeks like others have voted), he's just simply in the wrong company. We rely so much on our backs making the metres (from memory, Teddy had 23 runs, Naiqama 17, Nofo had 12 or 13 and every forward bar Woods had 6 or 7) that we just don't have go-forward full stop. Lawrence is one of our best for metres in a straight line while winning the ruck but no-one else bar maybe Ava comes close. If we had forwards who didn't shirk the hard work and were defensively capable ET wouldn't need to make 50+ tackles a game.
He's an exceptional defender and a good link man, it's not that he's a bad runner, he just has to cover so many other deficiencies in our team. If we had a Graham, Lewis or Bukuya (incidentally all Sharks, who also play a prop at 13) to help make yards ET would only look better, but I think putting him on an edge would only make our middle weaker.

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