We cant keep carrying ET

claws
Member
Member
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed 28 Oct, 2009 11:42 am

Re: We cant keep carrying ET

Post by claws » Sat 20 May, 2017 5:58 pm

Whilst I acknowledge this post was created to stimulate thought, I honestly believe at that particular time of creation, KS was a supersonic idiotic brain affected disconnected dumb dumb. No offence. Go Weststigers!


Nelson
Member
Member
Posts: 3179
Joined: Sat 31 Oct, 2015 11:17 am

Post by Nelson » Sat 20 May, 2017 6:32 pm

He does the job he's told to go out and do. If he was told to go out there and tuck the ball under his arm and hit it up 12-15 times a game he would and he would probably make decent enough metres. He's got pretty good leg drive and massive determination. He's clearly been told to ball play a little probably both to conserve himself for the enormous defensive workload he's expected to shoulder and also because he's pretty useful as a ball player. Nobody is carrying him. Blame the coach not the player if you have a problem with the metres he puts out, it's certainly not for lack of effort or preparedness on his part.

king sirro
Member
Member
Posts: 5786
Joined: Sun 12 Jul, 2009 9:39 am

Post by king sirro » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:03 pm

Nelson wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 6:32 pm
He does the job he's told to go out and do. If he was told to go out there and tuck the ball under his arm and hit it up 12-15 times a game he would and he would probably make decent enough metres. He's got pretty good leg drive and massive determination. He's clearly been told to ball play a little probably both to conserve himself for the enormous defensive workload he's expected to shoulder and also because he's pretty useful as a ball player. Nobody is carrying him. Blame the coach not the player if you have a problem with the metres he puts out, it's certainly not for lack of effort or preparedness on his part.
same thing mate. Doesn't matter if its coaches instructions or just ET...same result....poor go forward. Hence we cant carry him at lock.

Cleary is starting to show he has no idea like past coaches.
LAUGH NOW CRY LATER--JS

king sirro
Member
Member
Posts: 5786
Joined: Sun 12 Jul, 2009 9:39 am

Post by king sirro » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:06 pm

claws wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 5:58 pm
Whilst I acknowledge this post was created to stimulate thought, I honestly believe at that particular time of creation, KS was a supersonic idiotic brain affected disconnected dumb dumb. No offence. Go Weststigers!

Can you name one top 8 side that has a lock who makes less than 50m per game? Go on idiot, name a top side who carries a middle player that does NOT go forward. Every top side has a lock that goes forward. I challenge u to prove that wrong.
LAUGH NOW CRY LATER--JS

Tigrr
Member
Member
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri 16 Mar, 2012 11:14 pm

Post by Tigrr » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:08 pm

Cleary has plenty of idea but can only work with the cattle he has got,


Earl
Member
Member
Posts: 1962
Joined: Sat 18 Feb, 2017 9:21 am

Post by Earl » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:18 pm

Siro - I hear what you are stating but his overall game matters. How many players miss tackles stone cold up the middle ? Sue/Woods/Edwards all miss tackles straight up the middle. We get rolled because of those missed tackles, poor discipline and dud plays. ET does this less than basically every player in our team.

I honestly think we need a better pack but I'd play ET at lock. He can ball play. He makes his tackles and he can hit it up. His runs aren't great but I think in the context of his overall game we need the guy playing in the middle.

8. Packer
9. MM
10. Matulino
11. Lawrence
12. McQueen
13. ET

14. Grant -- as a prop replacement.
15. Sue -- I think we need a better player here though. I view Sue as only a prop but his mistakes and missed tackles are not acceptable.
16. Aloiai -- have him replace ET for 20 minutes a game.
17. Liddle

I think ideally we'd have a unit as an edge backrower but we bought McQueen. I honestly think this is an area we should target in our recruitment.

GoldXR50Leroy
Member
Member
Posts: 1850
Joined: Tue 31 May, 2011 3:36 pm

Post by GoldXR50Leroy » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:22 pm

I wish someone from the board could take timeout to watch a Movie called Moneyball, I don't know if it's just BS but apparently the Swans based their last Premiership around this theory, in 2005 both the Tigers & their Sydney AFL counterparts both won a premiership, since then the Tigers have barely made the 8 while the Swans have won another Flag!

User avatar
Harvey
Member
Member
Posts: 3534
Joined: Mon 22 Jun, 2015 10:01 pm
Location: Leumeah

Post by Harvey » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:23 pm

I would rather see ET as a 2nd rower, but for this 2 happen we need 3-5 middle players that can make metres, dominate the ruck and slow the play the ball. At the moment we have 0 people that meet this criteria.

goldcoast tiger
Member
Member
Posts: 6033
Joined: Sat 12 Apr, 2014 5:42 pm

Post by goldcoast tiger » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:42 pm

Fade To Black wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 4:00 pm
Steve k wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 2:17 pm
I have to agree dont know what all this love is for ET,we need someone much more effective than this bloke.
Sure. Who is your nomination? Elijah puts in more effort and determination than the rest of our pack combined. Would hate to think what our team would be like without ET. Heart and soul player, he is a champ. Summed it up near the end of the game last night when him and Woods were sitting on the bench, ET was 100% spent, just slumped over in exhaustion and Woods is sitting there fresh playing with his hair next to him.

User avatar
Black'n'White
Member
Member
Posts: 1895
Joined: Sat 02 Mar, 2013 6:52 pm

Post by Black'n'White » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:11 pm

If you were to break down the stats from last night, ET was actually the 4th most effective metre eater per carry, with 9.14m/carry.

Liddle the most effective at 11.75, then Suli at 10.66, Grant at 10.625....

As I said earlier, I wouldnt be putting too much stock into blaming ET for our go forward, when Edwards made 6.2m/carry, and Lovett 5.8m/carry.

Woods is in the same class as Gallen, being a mostly ineffective ball hog who gain plaudits for a high work rate though at 7.72m/carry is in the lower half of the entire team. That and I am pretty sure he has the slowest ptb stats in the comp.

So to say we are carrying ET, when he was not far off our most efficient runner with ball in hand and definitely our top defensive player is an oxymoron.

There is an old saying "ÿou dont weaken one position to strengthen another". We dont have to pigs to trot out a FG quality prop rotation, neverlone a spare with a massive motor to play Lock. So that means our reality is there is no moving him out to the 2nd row to strengthen it which in turn would make us downgrade at lock.

2nd row is where we are really coming up short. There is no two ways about it.

User avatar
mike
Forum Suppoter
Forum Suppoter
Posts: 1611
Joined: Mon 28 Jun, 2010 8:32 pm
Location: Hornsby

Post by mike » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:15 pm

He is doing his job and doing it very well which is more than can be said for others in the forward pack.
Western Suburbs supporter since 1960 | Balmain junior since 1967 | Wests Tigers supporter since 1999

Earl
Member
Member
Posts: 1962
Joined: Sat 18 Feb, 2017 9:21 am

Post by Earl » Sat 20 May, 2017 9:38 pm

Black'n'White wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 8:11 pm
If you were to break down the stats from last night, ET was actually the 4th most effective metre eater per carry, with 9.14m/carry.

Liddle the most effective at 11.75, then Suli at 10.66, Grant at 10.625....

As I said earlier, I wouldnt be putting too much stock into blaming ET for our go forward, when Edwards made 6.2m/carry, and Lovett 5.8m/carry.

Woods is in the same class as Gallen, being a mostly ineffective ball hog who gain plaudits for a high work rate though at 7.72m/carry is in the lower half of the entire team. That and I am pretty sure he has the slowest ptb stats in the comp.

So to say we are carrying ET, when he was not far off our most efficient runner with ball in hand and definitely our top defensive player is an oxymoron.

There is an old saying "ÿou dont weaken one position to strengthen another". We dont have to pigs to trot out a FG quality prop rotation, neverlone a spare with a massive motor to play Lock. So that means our reality is there is no moving him out to the 2nd row to strengthen it which in turn would make us downgrade at lock.

2nd row is where we are really coming up short. There is no two ways about it.
This is great analysis and stats. I honestly reckon ET goes better up the middle than Woods and it's not close. Better defence. Better play the balls. Better skill level. Less overall metres but he still can make a decent hit up as he reads the game well. I also think ET is better up the middle than on the edge.

I think we need a quality edge runner. If we had a player like Hess or Papali we'd be a lot better team. Lawrence is good but he isn't in that class.

clontarfkid
Member
Member
Posts: 791
Joined: Mon 13 Jul, 2009 3:47 pm

Post by clontarfkid » Sat 20 May, 2017 9:58 pm

ET is pretty close t our most valuable forward..his work rate and cleaning up of others' misses(not missus btw!) is invaluable,and is a more than capable ball player if given the opportunity.
The issue with the entire forward pack is they don't go forward..we lack size(particularly)and aggression.All teams have big back rows these days(look at Canberra and Eels tonite)which drive across the gain line and provide a platform..weve got 3 of the same <100kg back rowers(and have just bought another one in McQueen)!!
Woods backs into the opposition at snails pace giving them time to reset,whilst Grant and Ava have no step or swerve and are easily handled.
Plus Clearys overuse of backs running it up exascerbates the problem
Need some big boppers to complement the workers
..and pick ONE no9 and use ET as backup..need more metre eaters on the bench Ivan!

User avatar
VanillaThunder
Member
Member
Posts: 968
Joined: Mon 18 Jul, 2011 12:57 am
Location: Perth, WA

Post by VanillaThunder » Sat 20 May, 2017 10:36 pm

clontarfkid wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 9:58 pm
..and pick ONE no9 and use ET as backup..need more metre eaters on the bench Ivan!
Wasn't a fan when he was tried at hooker by JT, but it seems like the most straight-forward solution to be honest.
3. Marsters
4. Suli
11. Idris
12. Lawrence
With a bench of McQueen, Aloiai, Felise, Twal/Sue/Tatola gives us a much larger side across the park next year, and though I don't think either of Liddle or McIlwrick deserve to play reserve grade, it probably gives a bit more balance to the team.
Would like to see another hard head on the bench with only one of JJ, Junior, Jessie or Twal though; someone pass on Tagataese's number.

Earl
Member
Member
Posts: 1962
Joined: Sat 18 Feb, 2017 9:21 am

Post by Earl » Sat 20 May, 2017 10:45 pm

^^^
That is the best option that I've seen but I'd probably pick Liddle off the bench.

If Idris had a backrow spot I don't think there would be any problems with ET playing up the middle. I don't know if Idris is going to be here next year though.

Idris is the sort of player we desperately need in our pack. He can hit and he is a big unit.

rialto
Member
Member
Posts: 273
Joined: Fri 04 Sep, 2015 12:52 pm

Post by rialto » Sat 20 May, 2017 11:41 pm

ET does more than enough to keep his place in the team. This year, as in 2016 we have to make do with what we have.2018? Who knows, we have cash to splash for once and finally will be able to assemble some decent cattle. It's going to be a good year!

User avatar
Tiger Watto
Member
Member
Posts: 10560
Joined: Mon 08 Mar, 2010 7:12 pm
Location: Maroochydore Qld

Post by Tiger Watto » Sun 21 May, 2017 6:10 am

I feel some of you are too quick to defend ET as you are misreading what questions King Sirro is asking us.

He is ultimately questioning the Structure, not ET.
"Did someone buy you the internet hero play book for Christmas and you've only just started reading it?" - Nelson 21/04/2017

TrueTiger
Member
Member
Posts: 5423
Joined: Thu 14 Aug, 2014 11:22 am

Post by TrueTiger » Sun 21 May, 2017 7:09 am

king sirro wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 7:03 pm
Nelson wrote:
Sat 20 May, 2017 6:32 pm
He does the job he's told to go out and do. If he was told to go out there and tuck the ball under his arm and hit it up 12-15 times a game he would and he would probably make decent enough metres. He's got pretty good leg drive and massive determination. He's clearly been told to ball play a little probably both to conserve himself for the enormous defensive workload he's expected to shoulder and also because he's pretty useful as a ball player. Nobody is carrying him. Blame the coach not the player if you have a problem with the metres he puts out, it's certainly not for lack of effort or preparedness on his part.
same thing mate. Doesn't matter if its coaches instructions or just ET...same result....poor go forward. Hence we cant carry him at lock.

Cleary is starting to show he has no idea like past coaches.
KS,I can see the point you are making regarding ET,however I can't understand where you are coming from regarding Ivan Cleary our coach with no idea apparently...Ivan would be the best thing to happen to the Wests Tigers in quite along time,he has had to deal with contract dramas and losing 3 of the so called future of this club,he has had little time here and is starting to get things moving in the right direction as far as recruiting quality NRL players goes...to say Ivan has no idea is clearly unfair and uncalled for seeing as he has very little in the depth department and is trying to get this team that he has to play competitively and to NRL standard...it can't happen overnight but next year will be the year for us as a team and club moving toward finals football...I feel comfortable on the bus with Ivan driving it.....
You may see me struggle...but you will never see me quit... :D

Post Reply