Cleary u got what u deserved.

jadtiger
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Re: Cleary u got what u deserved.

Post by jadtiger » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 7:20 am

formerguest wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 12:32 am
Sco77y wrote:
Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:10 pm
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:30 pm
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:25 pm

Simple. I was referring to the playing roster yesterday, not Cleary....
Even so, losing by one point to a team in the 8 who on paper should have given us a lapping is an indication the roster is performing as well as Cleary being a good manager of people. I still don't understand your initial comment.
The problem lies in our roster, it has been a perpetual problem that has haunted us for the most part of a decade through poor cap management. Not JTs fault and not Ivan's fault.. Hell, Potter probably wasn't actually as bad as anyone thought because he had a rough looking team to deal with also. Therefore the problem likely wasn't JT like many believed. I remember quite a few on here saying a new coach would fix everything, but of course that takes time and wasn't the main cause of our problems.

Cleary seems to be doing a decent job, and next year we'll finally be able to see a team free of cap constraints.
Some want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Was Taylor the messiah?, no, but was he only appointed in the shadow of the preseason commencing at a club lumbered with an already bulging salary cap, to be a coach with virtually no say in further recruitment?, damn right he was.

What's more, he had to put up with being undermined by a captain that got rid of his predecessor/s. After a decision was made to remove the problem, the incoming CEO replacing the one that had perpetuated our already diabolical cap position, reneged on the backing of the coach and probably caused another another year of bloodletting, not to mention a poorer bargaining position in ridding the club of a then further declined and aged player.

Does anyone on here really not think that Taylor was placed in an untenable position by being told to apologise to a captain that was undermining him in front of the squad, or that it was anything other than a ridiculous decision?

Cleary might not be coaching at one of the rich glamour clubs, but any incoming club coach would be envious of the scope available to him in his first full season at WT.
You talk about rewriting history and then come up with a pile of speculation and agenda.For the record we needed to move on Robbie and Taylor for the toxic environment that was at the club but it should have happened in 2016.2017 is a disaster because JT was kept as coach a position which was totally beyond his capabilities


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Post by Telltails » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 9:35 am

jadtiger wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 7:20 am
formerguest wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 12:32 am
Sco77y wrote:
Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:10 pm
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:30 pm


Even so, losing by one point to a team in the 8 who on paper should have given us a lapping is an indication the roster is performing as well as Cleary being a good manager of people. I still don't understand your initial comment.
The problem lies in our roster, it has been a perpetual problem that has haunted us for the most part of a decade through poor cap management. Not JTs fault and not Ivan's fault.. Hell, Potter probably wasn't actually as bad as anyone thought because he had a rough looking team to deal with also. Therefore the problem likely wasn't JT like many believed. I remember quite a few on here saying a new coach would fix everything, but of course that takes time and wasn't the main cause of our problems.

Cleary seems to be doing a decent job, and next year we'll finally be able to see a team free of cap constraints.
Some want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Was Taylor the messiah?, no, but was he only appointed in the shadow of the preseason commencing at a club lumbered with an already bulging salary cap, to be a coach with virtually no say in further recruitment?, damn right he was.

What's more, he had to put up with being undermined by a captain that got rid of his predecessor/s. After a decision was made to remove the problem, the incoming CEO replacing the one that had perpetuated our already diabolical cap position, reneged on the backing of the coach and probably caused another another year of bloodletting, not to mention a poorer bargaining position in ridding the club of a then further declined and aged player.

Does anyone on here really not think that Taylor was placed in an untenable position by being told to apologise to a captain that was undermining him in front of the squad, or that it was anything other than a ridiculous decision?

Cleary might not be coaching at one of the rich glamour clubs, but any incoming club coach would be envious of the scope available to him in his first full season at WT.
You talk about rewriting history and then come up with a pile of speculation and agenda.For the record we needed to move on Robbie and Taylor for the toxic environment that was at the club but it should have happened in 2016.2017 is a disaster because JT was kept as coach a position which was totally beyond his capabilities
So it isnt all Teddy and Woods fault?

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Post by timmings01 » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 9:52 pm

formerguest wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 12:32 am
Sco77y wrote:
Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:10 pm
Pawsandclaws wrote:
Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:30 pm
GNR4LIFE wrote:
Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:25 pm

Simple. I was referring to the playing roster yesterday, not Cleary....
Even so, losing by one point to a team in the 8 who on paper should have given us a lapping is an indication the roster is performing as well as Cleary being a good manager of people. I still don't understand your initial comment.
The problem lies in our roster, it has been a perpetual problem that has haunted us for the most part of a decade through poor cap management. Not JTs fault and not Ivan's fault.. Hell, Potter probably wasn't actually as bad as anyone thought because he had a rough looking team to deal with also. Therefore the problem likely wasn't JT like many believed. I remember quite a few on here saying a new coach would fix everything, but of course that takes time and wasn't the main cause of our problems.

Cleary seems to be doing a decent job, and next year we'll finally be able to see a team free of cap constraints.
Some want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Was Taylor the messiah?, no, but was he only appointed in the shadow of the preseason commencing at a club lumbered with an already bulging salary cap, to be a coach with virtually no say in further recruitment?, damn right he was.

What's more, he had to put up with being undermined by a captain that got rid of his predecessor/s. After a decision was made to remove the problem, the incoming CEO replacing the one that had perpetuated our already diabolical cap position, reneged on the backing of the coach and probably caused another another year of bloodletting, not to mention a poorer bargaining position in ridding the club of a then further declined and aged player.

Does anyone on here really not think that Taylor was placed in an untenable position by being told to apologise to a captain that was undermining him in front of the squad, or that it was anything other than a ridiculous decision?

Cleary might not be coaching at one of the rich glamour clubs, but any incoming club coach would be envious of the scope available to him in his first full season at WT.
Oh go away with all your common sense, you're spoiling the outrage. ;)

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Post by timmings01 » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 9:58 pm

As hard as it may be for some to accept, it is possible to support the current coach whilst conceding that the former faced a multitude of problems during his time at the club. I suspect that if the team fails to do well in the coming years all the Taylor haters will become Cleary haters.

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Post by Earl » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:33 pm

Telltails wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 9:35 am
jadtiger wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 7:20 am
formerguest wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 12:32 am
Sco77y wrote:
Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:10 pm


The problem lies in our roster, it has been a perpetual problem that has haunted us for the most part of a decade through poor cap management. Not JTs fault and not Ivan's fault.. Hell, Potter probably wasn't actually as bad as anyone thought because he had a rough looking team to deal with also. Therefore the problem likely wasn't JT like many believed. I remember quite a few on here saying a new coach would fix everything, but of course that takes time and wasn't the main cause of our problems.

Cleary seems to be doing a decent job, and next year we'll finally be able to see a team free of cap constraints.
Some want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Was Taylor the messiah?, no, but was he only appointed in the shadow of the preseason commencing at a club lumbered with an already bulging salary cap, to be a coach with virtually no say in further recruitment?, damn right he was.

What's more, he had to put up with being undermined by a captain that got rid of his predecessor/s. After a decision was made to remove the problem, the incoming CEO replacing the one that had perpetuated our already diabolical cap position, reneged on the backing of the coach and probably caused another another year of bloodletting, not to mention a poorer bargaining position in ridding the club of a then further declined and aged player.

Does anyone on here really not think that Taylor was placed in an untenable position by being told to apologise to a captain that was undermining him in front of the squad, or that it was anything other than a ridiculous decision?

Cleary might not be coaching at one of the rich glamour clubs, but any incoming club coach would be envious of the scope available to him in his first full season at WT.
You talk about rewriting history and then come up with a pile of speculation and agenda.For the record we needed to move on Robbie and Taylor for the toxic environment that was at the club but it should have happened in 2016.2017 is a disaster because JT was kept as coach a position which was totally beyond his capabilities
So it isnt all Teddy and Woods fault?
A lot of it is these guys fault. Most marquee players stick with their current clubs especially if they are being offered good money. We just developed marquee players who have no loyalty at all. It's extremely unusual but what do you do about it.

Taylor was a pretty bad coach but I don't blame him for the lack of loyalty shown by our star players this year.


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Post by goldcoast tiger » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:54 pm

And the research for that sweeping statement about Marquee players came from ??????

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Post by innsaneink » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 6:02 am

Do you get picked on at home GCT?
Your so aggro & antagonistic.... Relax champ

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 6:55 am

timmings01 wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 9:58 pm
As hard as it may be for some to accept, it is possible to support the current coach whilst conceding that the former faced a multitude of problems during his time at the club. I suspect that if the team fails to do well in the coming years all the Taylor haters will become Cleary haters.

A rear guard action from the Taylor apologists? I thought this was all dead and buried when JT slipped out the backdoor and down the stairs. This is a new era and let's not get reopen divisions within the supporters on this forum.

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Post by Telltails » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 8:46 am

Earl wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:33 pm
Telltails wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 9:35 am
jadtiger wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 7:20 am
formerguest wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 12:32 am


Some want to rewrite history to suit their agenda. Was Taylor the messiah?, no, but was he only appointed in the shadow of the preseason commencing at a club lumbered with an already bulging salary cap, to be a coach with virtually no say in further recruitment?, damn right he was.

What's more, he had to put up with being undermined by a captain that got rid of his predecessor/s. After a decision was made to remove the problem, the incoming CEO replacing the one that had perpetuated our already diabolical cap position, reneged on the backing of the coach and probably caused another another year of bloodletting, not to mention a poorer bargaining position in ridding the club of a then further declined and aged player.

Does anyone on here really not think that Taylor was placed in an untenable position by being told to apologise to a captain that was undermining him in front of the squad, or that it was anything other than a ridiculous decision?

Cleary might not be coaching at one of the rich glamour clubs, but any incoming club coach would be envious of the scope available to him in his first full season at WT.
You talk about rewriting history and then come up with a pile of speculation and agenda.For the record we needed to move on Robbie and Taylor for the toxic environment that was at the club but it should have happened in 2016.2017 is a disaster because JT was kept as coach a position which was totally beyond his capabilities
So it isnt all Teddy and Woods fault?
A lot of it is these guys fault. Most marquee players stick with their current clubs especially if they are being offered good money. We just developed marquee players who have no loyalty at all. It's extremely unusual but what do you do about it.

Taylor was a pretty bad coach but I don't blame him for the lack of loyalty shown by our star players this year.
No Earl - their decisions definitely had an impact - but all the other stuff that happened leading up to that and may have very well influenced their decision - nup.

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Post by andrew 474 » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 9:04 am

Cleary come to this club knowing he would have to deal with the team he has now for this year only , he is not stupid that's why he took 3 and a half years on , this year he would try to get us to the 8 no doubt , but we can see so far he has given 2 new players from other clubs Reserve grade a crack and also one of our own from reserve grade , so Far Matt and Alex have gone pretty well as has Tui these 3 players are getting a real good taste of NRL then they will link with around 6 to 8 new players who will be playing for first grade spots in the Pre Season , this alone will be exciting for all the team and hopefully make them bond and get strong as a unit , I don't think we would be up near the 8 if JT was still here , we just don't have the team and back up all our grade are shot , I give Cleary next year to get us away from the bottom and competative and then 2019 we should be very close to top 6 to 8 , we have had some good games this year under Ivan , Manly game and Parra game we should have won both , both those teams played average we should have nailed them , some,times teams make the 8 and when you look back they beat the team who come first by a point in round 9 and that opposition on the day were crap , a off day , but that win got them into the 8 , it happens , we will just have to sit back hang in there and we will then see a list of new Players join us a list of players who have been taped on the shoulder and our pre season will be big I think with plenty of news , video , etc to get us supporters all excited ,

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Post by colmcd » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 9:26 am

sheer64 wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 1:22 am
Cleary negotiated his position before putting pen to paper, Taylor jumped at the opportunity to be back as a first grade coach and did not look at what Potter went through or did not care.
Potter I actually feel sorry for. He was settling in and Robbie got caught by the media. Yes Robbie should have known better, but Gordon Tallis needs to be booed off every tigers game. Seriously that guy is a knob and was the reason for the whole Potter/Farah drama.

Had Potter not had those dramas we would have made the 8 under him. We were coming 9th.

Potter could handle people and I think he is boosting "Mary"'s success in St George. I was willing to give Taylor a chance, but I have no idea why he would do a light preseason here (surely they don't at easts) OR why he would roll over on the big 4 contract negotiations. He could not handle the job. The board would back him except Taylor was clearly failing at the job.

Cleary remains. He is probably marginally better then Potter and definitely got Penrith on the right track. Penrith was lucky and got on track faster then I expected. WT may take 2 seasons.

Cleary is going to struggle, he is a builder and that takes time. This year he has some decisions like "do I put hopeless guy 1 or hopeless guy 2".

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Post by TigerSJ » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 2:04 pm

For what it's worth I thought Potter was a good coach albeit a little soft and I had less respect for Taylor, especially in the way he handled himself and some of the decisions he made. I found his style very uninspiring and I wonder if he would have been able to attract quality players given the opportunity Cleary has had.
In the end what makes a good coach??
Firstly he has to have the respect of the whole squad of players. He has to be able to identify quality players and make good decisions about the roster and selections. Sure, he has to know his stuff and hopefully have assembled a good team of assistant coaches, but ultimately IMO winning NRL games comes down to how much does each player and the group as a whole really want to win? How far are they willing to dig down and fight for themselves and each other.
As long as you have a decent roster of quality NRL level players, winning is about attitude and effort. So, a good coach is a guy who has developed a culture that can bring this out in every player in his team week after week for the duration of a season. A great coach can take guys who have never shown that spirit or desire and blend them into a team of guys that will fight till they drop and then some.
I think Cleary is probably closer to that coach than either of Potter or Taylor.

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Post by timmings01 » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 8:34 pm

Pawsandclaws wrote:
Wed 26 Jul, 2017 6:55 am
timmings01 wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 9:58 pm
As hard as it may be for some to accept, it is possible to support the current coach whilst conceding that the former faced a multitude of problems during his time at the club. I suspect that if the team fails to do well in the coming years all the Taylor haters will become Cleary haters.

A rear guard action from the Taylor apologists? I thought this was all dead and buried when JT slipped out the backdoor and down the stairs. This is a new era and let's not get reopen divisions within the supporters on this forum.
Oh ok if you say so. lol :roll:

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Post by Earl » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 7:42 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:54 pm
And the research for that sweeping statement about Marquee players came from ??????
Statistically accurate representations of most marquee players. Prove me wrong. It's a pretty accurate statement.

We had a dud coach in JT but do you really think he was the reason these guys left ? I don't think it's fair to blame JT for their attitude.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Fri 28 Jul, 2017 5:19 am

Not on his own, but he would have been a big part of it. I think it was more that they were sick of all the drama that was going on and on for years,. I don't think that their leaving was a result of just one incident or one person.leading to that
It was more likely a result of the constant distractions that was ingrained in the club
I also think that Cleary was a season too late, and had he or another proven Coach been appointed last year, the result mayhave been different.

An off season under someone who they could have confidence in , may have been enough to repair some of the damage of the previous years.
In Woodsies case, he was probably pissed off that week after week he was left to carry a popgun pack of forwards , hardly the way to prolong a career.

As for your statement about marquee players, what was the source of the information
That that came from.
You made the statement, not me. Not up to me to prove anything
Maybe it just means that most clubs treat their Marquee players much better than we do so they don't want to leave.
Or maybe they just "love the club" :lol:

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Post by The Old Fox » Fri 28 Jul, 2017 6:45 am

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 28 Jul, 2017 5:19 am
Not on his own, but he would have been a big part of it. I think it was more that they were sick of all the drama that was going on and on for years,. I don't think that their leaving was a result of just one incident or one person.leading to that
It was more likely a result of the constant distractions that was ingrained in the club
I also think that Cleary was a season too late, and had he or another proven Coach been appointed last year, the result mayhave been different.

An off season under someone who they could have confidence in , may have been enough to repair some of the damage of the previous years.
In Woodsies case, he was probably pissed off that week after week he was left to carry a popgun pack of forwards , hardly the way to prolong a career.

As for your statement about marquee players, what was the source of the information
That that came from.
You made the statement, not me. Not up to me to prove anything
Maybe it just means that most clubs treat their Marquee players much better than we do so they don't want to leave.
Or maybe they just "love the club" :lol:

Good point GT, I was basically speculating the same point of view as you on another thread. There would have been a number of reasons these guys would have left most likely they lost confidence in the club and to a degree Taylor himself..What was behind the Sacking of Taylor?... was it an effort behind closed doors to keep there Marquee players or was it unrelated? I personally think Woods and Tedesco made their minds up to go at the end of 2016 for such reasons as you have stated, If Woods was sincere about his comment over Cleary, what he is depicting is the difference between an average coach and as you stated a great coach in Cleary.. It's all about getting your players to put in a 101 percent effort and only the best coaches can extract that from them.

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Post by TigerTiger » Fri 28 Jul, 2017 8:21 am

The Old Fox wrote:
Fri 28 Jul, 2017 6:45 am
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 28 Jul, 2017 5:19 am
Not on his own, but he would have been a big part of it. I think it was more that they were sick of all the drama that was going on and on for years,. I don't think that their leaving was a result of just one incident or one person.leading to that
It was more likely a result of the constant distractions that was ingrained in the club
I also think that Cleary was a season too late, and had he or another proven Coach been appointed last year, the result mayhave been different.

An off season under someone who they could have confidence in , may have been enough to repair some of the damage of the previous years.
In Woodsies case, he was probably pissed off that week after week he was left to carry a popgun pack of forwards , hardly the way to prolong a career.

As for your statement about marquee players, what was the source of the information
That that came from.
You made the statement, not me. Not up to me to prove anything
Maybe it just means that most clubs treat their Marquee players much better than we do so they don't want to leave.
Or maybe they just "love the club" :lol:

Good point GT, I was basically speculating the same point of view as you on another thread. There would have been a number of reasons these guys would have left most likely they lost confidence in the club and to a degree Taylor himself..What was behind the Sacking of Taylor?... was it an effort behind closed doors to keep there Marquee players or was it unrelated? I personally think Woods and Tedesco made their minds up to go at the end of 2016 for such reasons as you have stated, If Woods was sincere about his comment over Cleary, what he is depicting is the difference between an average coach and as you stated a great coach in Cleary.. It's all about getting your players to put in a 101 percent effort and only the best coaches can extract that from them.
I think it's pretty clear why all 3 left. They saw what happened with Robbie, saw how the club "treated him with disrespect", wanting to sack him, pressuring him to go, all that stuff, and the 3 players thought "well, if that's how WT treat their best players, I don't want that to be me"...

I am not re-opening the Robbie can of worms here, yes WT handled all that stuff badly, no more needs to be said about it. But that's why I think those 3 all decided to go.

Interesting that (Brooks aside) the three of them all left when they felt pushed. When Moses was told he was not #1 priority and when Woods and Ted were given a deadline, they all instantly had somewhere to go.

They knew they were leaving, and I bet they talked about it together. Poor mentality from them with no loyalty to the club, but they just saw perceived injustices in how the club treats it's players and they didn't want it to happen to them.

Good on Brooks for NOT bowing to peer pressure.
A one eyed supporter, mostly :crazy, always :sign:

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Post by Geo. » Fri 28 Jul, 2017 8:33 am

Mind boggling...the scapegoat for Farah's removal was himself removed..A new Coach was put in place with the future direction of the Club assured ..the word Stability they were craving yet still choose to leave without giving much of a chance ..yeah not buying it..
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..
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Geo nailed it...

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