The Contenders: Hooker

colmcd
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Re: The Contenders: Hooker

Post by colmcd » Sat 13 Jan, 2018 11:28 pm

clontarfkid wrote:
Sat 13 Jan, 2018 5:16 pm
Weve invested in Liddle and shld give him every opportunity to show what hes got.He cant play 80 mins atm as we all agree,but between ET in the backrow and Benji on the bench we have two really good backups to plug the gaps.
Were not a big team by any stretch,and personally I just don't wanna squander a bench spot on a specialist no 9..
Grant Twal Benji and Aloise are on my bench,with McQueen Else and ET in the backrow
I think we need to work out what Hooker we want.
Do we want an Issac Luke/Michael Ennis/Michael Lichaa style hooker who will run around the big guys. Or do we want a Cameron Smith/Danny Bedeurus/Robbie Farah style that will take the line on, get in their face and tire them out. (Yes I believe RF was a big reason why we seem to do better then most teams against Melbourne),

I guess you could have a tough, linesetting gritty defending hooker then a kid with speed come in. That could work.

But I think Cleary is going to play it straight. Get the basics right, at least in defense.


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Post by happy tiger » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 12:04 am

Russell wrote:
Sat 13 Jan, 2018 8:57 am
Tigerdon wrote:
Fri 12 Jan, 2018 10:23 pm
Probably our weakest position. A few players could do a job but no stand-outs at hooker

.
No one is terrible at DH but no one is a possible rep player either.
Disagree TD - I think a number of positions are weaker than DH.

Liddle is definitely a future rep player and was already named in the Emerging Blues squad for 2018 as a future Origin star.

He may not play in the first couple of rounds due to shoulder recovery but why people think he cannot play 80 minutes is beyond me. Once he comes back, a full preseason behind him and the experience of last year and now knowing what to expect in the NRL - there will be no stopping him.

He is sharp and very quick from the PTB, runs when he can do some good, a good thinker as to where the ball is needed and a very good defender in the middle.

McIlwrick, Godinet etc. will need to find new positions or get used to ISP in 2018.

DH are just different initials for JL - watch him make the position his own this year.

Just a Liddle bit of Jacob will improve us heaps.
I tend to agree with Russ , if Liddle's shoulders are 100 % and a another pre season behind him he should play bigger minutes

Then what we do is the biggest question , lots of different options , which is the best ??

I'd prefer a bench full of monsters myself , so maybe ET .... , time will tell I guess

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Post by Masterton » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 9:49 am

Needaname wrote:
Sat 13 Jan, 2018 11:31 am
Anyone have in-depth stats for last season as to the amount of Mins Liddle started to play before his Injury.
I was thinking in a couple of games towards the end he was pushing out 65 at least.
Looks like some of the stats have been lost with the last NRL website update, but here's a snapshot up to rd 16

4. Storm
POS: Interchange
L 22-14 42 0 0 0 5 54 0 0 1 20 4 0
6. Cowboys
POS: Interchange
W 26-16 28 1 0 0 5 39 1 0 0 18 2 2
7. Eels
POS: Interchange
L 22-26 25 0 0 0 3 32 0 0 0 16 2 0
8. Bulldogs
POS: Interchange
W 12-18 32 0 0 0 4 13 0 0 0 19 2 0
9. Sharks
POS: Interchange
L 22-16 50 0 0 0 6 48 0 0 0 39 2 0
10. Rabbitohs
POS: Interchange
L 28-8 27 0 0 0 7 26 0 0 0 21 5 0
11. Broncos
POS: Interchange
L 0-36 53 0 0 0 4 47 1 0 0 27 2 2
13. Dragons
POS: Interchange
L 12-16 53 0 0 0 4 43 0 0 0 28 2 0
14. Roosters
POS: Interchange
L 40-18 31 0 0 0 2 18 0 0 0 15 0 1
15. Sharks
POS: Interchange
L 22-24 50 1 0 0 5 39 1 0 1 35 0 0
16. Titans
POS: Hooker
L 26-14 67 0 0 0 4 22 0 0 1 45 4 0



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Post by Harvey » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 10:40 am

I think that this is an area we need to look to recruit in. McIllwrick offers little in attack, has average DH service, and can even be shaky in defence when fatigued. Liddle has more of an upside, but may not be durable enough to handle the full load at this point.
ET will defend the middle of the field and help control the ruck, but offers nothing in attack from DH, and would also mean we no longer have his ball playing skills a pass or two wide.
In Brooks and Reynolds, we do not have the most creative halves and so I think we need to have a DH that will ask questions of the defence.

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Post by Tiger Steve » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 1:39 pm

Yeah it’s a pity we couldn’t develop a state of origin hooker to play his whole career with us.....oh wait.....
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Post by Geo. » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 3:14 pm

Yep can see Benji kepping the middle tight in defence...
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Post by Tacky » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 3:21 pm

I have our order of preference for hooker as:

1. Liddle, 2. Mcilwrick, 3. Taylor, 4. Marshall, 5. Godinet.
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Post by Nelson » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 5:07 pm

Harvey wrote:
Sun 14 Jan, 2018 10:40 am
I think that this is an area we need to look to recruit in. McIllwrick offers little in attack, has average DH service, and can even be shaky in defence when fatigued. Liddle has more of an upside, but may not be durable enough to handle the full load at this point.
ET will defend the middle of the field and help control the ruck, but offers nothing in attack from DH, and would also mean we no longer have his ball playing skills a pass or two wide.
In Brooks and Reynolds, we do not have the most creative halves and so I think we need to have a DH that will ask questions of the defence.
If Brooks and Reynolds get early ball out in front of them they'll be able to put far more pressure on the defence, plus we will have a ball playing fullback in Lolohea so we don't necessarily need a Hodgson type DH handling the creative load. ET showed great service in that World Cup game and would be tough to stop close to the line given his strength. That's all he needs to offer in attack really. He's got enough game smarts that he should be able to time his runs from DH reasonably well as well.

Given the question marks over where ET best fits in the team with Eisenhuth coming on well as lock and 2nd row options like McQueen, Aloiai, Marsters and Lawrence available I think giving ET a stint at hooker is a good use of him - it keeps him defending in the middle but provides for a metre making lock (which ET isn't). ET plays first 25-30 at hooker and is then subbed for Liddle/McIlwrick (and they play out the game). Eisenhuth is then subbed for ET at around 55 minutes. We lose some ball playing at lock sure but Eisenhuth has showed ability in that are at least.

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Post by Needaname » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 5:25 pm

I'm thinking there will be 2 Schools of thought.

With McRilrik as our available hooker,
He will start and ET will be Lock.
Eiso will come off the bench once ET fills in at hooker.

When liddle is ready he will be first coming off the bench.
With ET being the prefered hooker back up between him and Mc he would be starting hooker.
Eiso will be starting lock.
Liddle will come off the bench and work his way into eventually playing out full minutes.

What we may end up with by the end of the year is.

9. Liddle 80
13. Eiso 60
14. ET, backrow, lock or hooker if required.

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Post by Needaname » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 5:30 pm

Masterton wrote:
Sun 14 Jan, 2018 9:49 am
Needaname wrote:
Sat 13 Jan, 2018 11:31 am
Anyone have in-depth stats for last season as to the amount of Mins Liddle started to play before his Injury.
I was thinking in a couple of games towards the end he was pushing out 65 at least.
Looks like some of the stats have been lost with the last NRL website update, but here's a snapshot up to rd 16

4. Storm
POS: Interchange
L 22-14 42 0 0 0 5 54 0 0 1 20 4 0
6. Cowboys
POS: Interchange
W 26-16 28 1 0 0 5 39 1 0 0 18 2 2
7. Eels
POS: Interchange
L 22-26 25 0 0 0 3 32 0 0 0 16 2 0
8. Bulldogs
POS: Interchange
W 12-18 32 0 0 0 4 13 0 0 0 19 2 0
9. Sharks
POS: Interchange
L 22-16 50 0 0 0 6 48 0 0 0 39 2 0
10. Rabbitohs
POS: Interchange
L 28-8 27 0 0 0 7 26 0 0 0 21 5 0
11. Broncos
POS: Interchange
L 0-36 53 0 0 0 4 47 1 0 0 27 2 2
13. Dragons
POS: Interchange
L 12-16 53 0 0 0 4 43 0 0 0 28 2 0
14. Roosters
POS: Interchange
L 40-18 31 0 0 0 2 18 0 0 0 15 0 1
15. Sharks
POS: Interchange
L 22-24 50 1 0 0 5 39 1 0 1 35 0 0
16. Titans
POS: Hooker
L 26-14 67 0 0 0 4 22 0 0 1 45 4 0

Thanks Masterton.
That last game was the first game Liddle started at Hooker.
The next game was newcastle where I think he played over 70, I seem to only remember Mckiller coming on late.
The following game done after 4mins.


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Post by colmcd » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 5:32 pm

Tacky wrote:
Sun 14 Jan, 2018 3:21 pm
I have our order of preference for hooker as:

1. Liddle, 2. Mcilwrick, 3. Taylor, 4. Marshall, 5. Godinet.
Looking above though, it seems that Liddle was only playing for an average of about 40 minutes.

I can only imaging Taylor going 80 minutes. Mcilwrick maybe if he really really trains hard, but Taylor is the only player I can see regularly going at 80 minutes.

So you either plan to have a reserve hooker or have someone like Marshall who can play hooker + be a replacement for most players.

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Post by Geo. » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 7:21 pm

Wait up .....I was curious with this suggestion of Marshall at hooker so looked up his career only to discover Marshall has played a grand total of 0 games at hooker..has come off the bench 8 times for the Broncos and that infamous 1 time for the Wests Tigers never coming on as hooker I believe always in the halves...

I don't think I have seen him defend in the middle of the field...maybe we could innovate and play him there in attack and defend on the wing back to the future 05 style...could work...
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Post by Tacky » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 7:56 pm

colmcd wrote:
Sun 14 Jan, 2018 5:32 pm
Tacky wrote:
Sun 14 Jan, 2018 3:21 pm
I have our order of preference for hooker as:

1. Liddle, 2. Mcilwrick, 3. Taylor, 4. Marshall, 5. Godinet.
Looking above though, it seems that Liddle was only playing for an average of about 40 minutes.

I can only imaging Taylor going 80 minutes. Mcilwrick maybe if he really really trains hard, but Taylor is the only player I can see regularly going at 80 minutes.

So you either plan to have a reserve hooker or have someone like Marshall who can play hooker + be a replacement for most players.
There's a couple of different ways you can do it. You could have Liddle playing 2 stints and have Talor play dummy half while he's off. You could have Liddle start with Mcilwrick on the bench. You could even have Josh Reynolds switch to hooker and have Marshall off the bench to play 5/8. Either way, I still have Liddle as our most talented hooker.
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Post by Masterton » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 8:17 pm

Tacky wrote:
Sun 14 Jan, 2018 7:56 pm
There's a couple of different ways you can do it. You could have Liddle playing 2 stints and have Talor play dummy half while he's off.
It's bad enough wasting an interchange on a hooker, there's no way they will waste 2.
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Post by Earl » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 8:39 pm

Geo. wrote:
Sun 14 Jan, 2018 7:21 pm
Wait up .....I was curious with this suggestion of Marshall at hooker so looked up his career only to discover Marshall has played a grand total of 0 games at hooker..has come off the bench 8 times for the Broncos and that infamous 1 time for the Wests Tigers never coming on as hooker I believe always in the halves...

I don't think I have seen him defend in the middle of the field...maybe we could innovate and play him there in attack and defend on the wing back to the future 05 style...could work...
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Post by upthetigers » Mon 15 Jan, 2018 7:33 am

Tacky wrote:
Sun 14 Jan, 2018 7:56 pm
You could even have Josh Reynolds switch to hooker and have Marshall off the bench to play 5/8.
^ This. Benji is back and no one wants to utilize him in the halves? It also boggles my mind how everyone thinks Taylor is a better option than Reynolds for the hooking role.

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Post by Geo. » Mon 15 Jan, 2018 8:01 am

Yes we should chop n change the spine positions 3 times a game...mind boogling indeed
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Post by upthetigers » Mon 15 Jan, 2018 8:13 am

Geo. wrote:
Mon 15 Jan, 2018 8:01 am
Yes we should chop n change the spine positions 3 times a game...mind boogling indeed
We don't have an 80 min hooker so he needs to be replaced = mind blown. Excuse me for thinking replacing him with the best option made sense.

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