Team-first attitude driving Packer

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Re: Team-first attitude driving Packer

Post by Tiger Come Lately » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 1:20 pm

Harvey wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 10:03 am
I think Twal is more like Woods. Big motor, big minutes, big stats. Neither is dynamic or explosive, Twal would miss less tackles.
I agree, only the offloads are missing. I haven't seen it in his game but I think I read here he does possess the ability.


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Post by clontarfkid » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 2:24 pm

I don't see Twal like Woods at all actually.He has a very high workrate in both attack and defence,can play big minutes,but that's where it stops.....Twal isn't really big enough to push thru the defence line and /or stand up the defence to offload.
I'm really hoping he puts on a few kegs in the off season to improve his impact at contact.

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Post by innsaneink » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:21 pm

Twal is still a pup and has a lot of development to still achieve....these guys dont crack firsts possessing all the skills

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Post by Russell » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 5:59 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:21 pm
Twal is still a pup and has a lot of development to still achieve....these guys dont crack firsts possessing all the skills
Agree, Twal is a fine prospect but he is still young and has a lot to learn. Apparently he is quite capable of offloading and I am sure Cleary is aware of this. Probably wants him to ease into the NRL and then work on the offloads when he gets the little things right.

To even try to compare him to Woods is ridiculous. Compare him by all means but to a 21 year old Woods.

Twal won't come into his own for a few more years yet and with Packer and Matulino to guide him I am sure he will turn out a real goodun'.

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Post by formerguest » Sun 21 Jan, 2018 7:17 pm

Russell wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 5:59 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:21 pm
Twal is still a pup and has a lot of development to still achieve....these guys dont crack firsts possessing all the skills
Agree, Twal is a fine prospect but he is still young and has a lot to learn. Apparently he is quite capable of offloading and I am sure Cleary is aware of this. Probably wants him to ease into the NRL and then work on the offloads when he gets the little things right.

To even try to compare him to Woods is ridiculous. Compare him by all means but to a 21 year old Woods.

Twal won't come into his own for a few more years yet and with Packer and Matulino to guide him I am sure he will turn out a real goodun'.
Twal works a lot more off the ball than Woods ever has and strives to get back in the defensive line. We have struck gold with Alex, well at least for the next three years and if we got him way under value, which I expect we did, it would do no harm to send at least a little more his way.


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Post by Tiger Come Lately » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 8:21 am

Russell wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 5:59 pm
innsaneink wrote:
Sun 21 Jan, 2018 3:21 pm
Twal is still a pup and has a lot of development to still achieve....these guys dont crack firsts possessing all the skills
Agree, Twal is a fine prospect but he is still young and has a lot to learn. Apparently he is quite capable of offloading and I am sure Cleary is aware of this. Probably wants him to ease into the NRL and then work on the offloads when he gets the little things right.

To even try to compare him to Woods is ridiculous. Compare him by all means but to a 21 year old Woods.

Twal won't come into his own for a few more years yet and with Packer and Matulino to guide him I am sure he will turn out a real goodun'.
I don't think it's a comparison more so a resemblance. If we were to compare I think he is better defensively.

I'm not sure how much more easing he needs. Played quite a few games last year and the World Cup.

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Post by innsaneink » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 9:22 am

It's not about easing....props generally for some reason can develop and continue to improve their games for many many years...theyre like boys, mature later where the backs are are girls and mature earlier

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Post by Tiger Watto » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 9:27 am

Needaname wrote:
Sat 20 Jan, 2018 11:52 pm
Does it really matter how much we paid for our front row?
Does it really matter how much we paid for anyone?
If our club / coaching staff are happy with the squad put together and we manage to be competitive what's it matter what some individuals are costing.
It's a team sport after all and we've managed to put together a pretty decent squad.
Attitude costs less than talent but I'm my opinion is more valuable.
Agreed... the key to the assumption of the costs of goods should only be judged by the return on investment.

If there is no smoke coming out of the bus after 12 weeks, it would be fare to say we have spent/paid well for our new stock!
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Post by Balmain Boy » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 9:35 am

Packer will definitely be in our leadership group. At present having ET, Lawrence, Packer, Reynolds and Benji leading the team on and off the field is an enormous improvement on anything we've really ever had. A lot of inspirational players, players who are articulate, and can elad by example both on and off the field.

Leadership has been sorely lacking and can make a huge difference to the entire squad.

Twal is definitley very simliar to Woods. Workrate is actually much better, which is great considering that was Woods' strength, and he does have a decent offload. I think Cleary was easing Twal and Eisenhuth in, trying to keep their jobs fairly simple and uncomplicated and that suited our style towards the end of the year of playing failry simple footy. If we start throwing the ball around more the likes of Matulino, Twal and Eiso will be able to showcase their full skill set. Not sure it's something Packer has in him, but we're covered even if he doesn't

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Post by Geo. » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 11:29 am

Tiger Watto wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 9:27 am
Needaname wrote:
Sat 20 Jan, 2018 11:52 pm
Does it really matter how much we paid for our front row?
Does it really matter how much we paid for anyone?
If our club / coaching staff are happy with the squad put together and we manage to be competitive what's it matter what some individuals are costing.
It's a team sport after all and we've managed to put together a pretty decent squad.
Attitude costs less than talent but I'm my opinion is more valuable.
Agreed... the key to the assumption of the costs of goods should only be judged by the return on investment.

If there is no smoke coming out of the bus after 12 weeks, it would be fare to say we have spent/paid well for our new stock!
Just keep the bus above 50 mph...we all know what happens if not...boooooooooooooom...
Ivan's Laws

1. You are either on the Bus or you are off..
2. The Star of the Team is the Team
3. Be the player your teammates want to play with..
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Geo nailed it...

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Post by happy tiger » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 11:49 am

Geo. wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 11:29 am
Tiger Watto wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 9:27 am
Needaname wrote:
Sat 20 Jan, 2018 11:52 pm
Does it really matter how much we paid for our front row?
Does it really matter how much we paid for anyone?
If our club / coaching staff are happy with the squad put together and we manage to be competitive what's it matter what some individuals are costing.
It's a team sport after all and we've managed to put together a pretty decent squad.
Attitude costs less than talent but I'm my opinion is more valuable.
Agreed... the key to the assumption of the costs of goods should only be judged by the return on investment.

If there is no smoke coming out of the bus after 12 weeks, it would be fare to say we have spent/paid well for our new stock!
Just keep the bus above 50 mph...we all know what happens if not...boooooooooooooom...
Its an electric bus , no smoke , just keep it charged .... pay the power bill .....it will be fine

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Post by mike » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 12:50 pm

I do like what is coming from the squad. It’s all about the team and doing everything for the team. Looking forward to how this translates to on field performance of the team.
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Post by 2041 » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 8:48 pm

Needaname wrote:
Sat 20 Jan, 2018 11:52 pm
Does it really matter how much we paid for our front row?
Does it really matter how much we paid for anyone?
If our club / coaching staff are happy with the squad put together and we manage to be competitive what's it matter what some individuals are costing.
It's a team sport after all and we've managed to put together a pretty decent squad.
Attitude costs less than talent but I'm my opinion is more valuable.
Of course it matters how much we pay someone. There's a salary cap, and every cent spent on a player is a cent that can't be spent on another one*.

In fact salary is clearly the most important factor in NRL squads. There is no such thing as a good or bad player - only one who provides more value than his cap hit and one who doesn't. Jonathan Thurston is bad if you're paying him so much you can't put first grade standard players around him.

*Unless you're the Roosters.

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Post by Tigerdon » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 10:55 pm

The thing that matters is Packer, Matts, Eiso, Twal Sue , Grant are all quite good middle players and we have them signed up and committed.
Who really knows what anyone actually gets paid.? The figures quoted vary in every article you read. so it’s hard to get a real gadge on what most players are actually on.
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Post by Needaname » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 9:08 pm

2041 wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 8:48 pm
Needaname wrote:
Sat 20 Jan, 2018 11:52 pm
Does it really matter how much we paid for our front row?
Does it really matter how much we paid for anyone?
If our club / coaching staff are happy with the squad put together and we manage to be competitive what's it matter what some individuals are costing.
It's a team sport after all and we've managed to put together a pretty decent squad.
Attitude costs less than talent but I'm my opinion is more valuable.
Of course it matters how much we pay someone. There's a salary cap, and every cent spent on a player is a cent that can't be spent on another one*.

In fact salary is clearly the most important factor in NRL squads. There is no such thing as a good or bad player - only one who provides more value than his cap hit and one who doesn't. Jonathan Thurston is bad if you're paying him so much you can't put first grade standard players around him.

*Unless you're the Roosters.
But that’s my point exactly.
If the club has paid ‘overs’ so to speak for the front row. They have decided to offset that cost in other positions.
Does it necessarily mean we have been weekend in those other positions. Well if your making that assumption based on cost well you’d say yes, but if you look at what the player can bring in a cost for value perspective it may not be any weeker.

Look at manly for instance.
They have been on food stamps since paying DCE his massive wage.
In 2016 they had Paid a lot to lure Taupu and walker to the club. Walker to be DCEs partner.
They still had veterans Stewart, Matai and LYON on the books.
Now Taupu more than played his value if not more but walker failed at five eight and we all knew was destined to go back to centre.
Some would say a wasted investment.
At the time they had Matai and LYON so signing walker for centre would seem overkill.
However end of that year LYON retires and walker goes back to right centre. Manly now in need of a 5/8 buy green for a slashed deal.
Don’t forgot manly still had Matai and stewart on the books and unfit to play so they had to look at a couple cost for value players.
In come Sironen, Kelly and Lane.
Buy deciding to moneyball the 5/8 position and taking a risk with their back row they managed to still afford Taupau and DCE on big wages and stay competitive.

It’s all relative and buy saying it’s important that every player needs to get signed for less than their market value is a very narrow way of looking at it.

Clearly the club identified that what Packer and Matolino can bring to our squad is worth more than the individual money paid in salary to what the overall squad benefits from the investment.

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Post by 2041 » Thu 25 Jan, 2018 6:06 pm

Needaname wrote:
Wed 24 Jan, 2018 9:08 pm
2041 wrote:
Mon 22 Jan, 2018 8:48 pm
Needaname wrote:
Sat 20 Jan, 2018 11:52 pm
Does it really matter how much we paid for our front row?
Does it really matter how much we paid for anyone?
If our club / coaching staff are happy with the squad put together and we manage to be competitive what's it matter what some individuals are costing.
It's a team sport after all and we've managed to put together a pretty decent squad.
Attitude costs less than talent but I'm my opinion is more valuable.
Of course it matters how much we pay someone. There's a salary cap, and every cent spent on a player is a cent that can't be spent on another one*.

In fact salary is clearly the most important factor in NRL squads. There is no such thing as a good or bad player - only one who provides more value than his cap hit and one who doesn't. Jonathan Thurston is bad if you're paying him so much you can't put first grade standard players around him.

*Unless you're the Roosters.
But that’s my point exactly.
If the club has paid ‘overs’ so to speak for the front row. They have decided to offset that cost in other positions.
Does it necessarily mean we have been weekend in those other positions. Well if your making that assumption based on cost well you’d say yes, but if you look at what the player can bring in a cost for value perspective it may not be any weeker.

Look at manly for instance.
They have been on food stamps since paying DCE his massive wage.
In 2016 they had Paid a lot to lure Taupu and walker to the club. Walker to be DCEs partner.
They still had veterans Stewart, Matai and LYON on the books.
Now Taupu more than played his value if not more but walker failed at five eight and we all knew was destined to go back to centre.
Some would say a wasted investment.
At the time they had Matai and LYON so signing walker for centre would seem overkill.
However end of that year LYON retires and walker goes back to right centre. Manly now in need of a 5/8 buy green for a slashed deal.
Don’t forgot manly still had Matai and stewart on the books and unfit to play so they had to look at a couple cost for value players.
In come Sironen, Kelly and Lane.
Buy deciding to moneyball the 5/8 position and taking a risk with their back row they managed to still afford Taupau and DCE on big wages and stay competitive.

It’s all relative and buy saying it’s important that every player needs to get signed for less than their market value is a very narrow way of looking at it.

Clearly the club identified that what Packer and Matolino can bring to our squad is worth more than the individual money paid in salary to what the overall squad benefits from the investment.
I think this is one of those times where we're basically making the same point. If Packer and Matulino do enough to justify their contracts they are by definition not being overpaid. I couldn't tell you whether, I dunno, Matulino and Lawrence is a better use of cap money than Seumanafagai and the hypothetical more expensive back rower we could have had if we hadn't upped the spend on props. All I'm saying is these contracts don't exist in a vacuum. If we come 12th because we don't have any pace in the outside backs I think it'll be possible to wonder whether we spent too much on the front row, likewise if we get outbid for Nathan Cleary. Time will tell.

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