Nofo Must Do His Time

king sirro
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Re: Nofo Must Do His Time

Post by king sirro » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:47 am

jirskyr wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:33 am
On this topic, surely Cleary will do his HW and make the right decision - he is obviously a good coach.

If he keeps Nofo, we can understand he feels the D was a bigger-picture failure and will work on it with all players.

If he drops Nofo, he would feel Nofo has failed at some key indicator. Being aware of course that Nofo was dropped at season beginning precisely because he had holes in his game.

Trust in the coach?
I think that's right. Ivan will look and assess each situation. No doubt at all Benji will be pulled in to have a look at his mistakes. Whether or not the inside mistakes are enough to give Nofo another chance will be decided by the man who knows best.

Personally, I feel we need to try David at fullback. In a side where we lack real class outwide, he's a very important cog IMO. Would like to see him and Thompson swap. I think Nofo could give fullback a real shake, Thomspon shows just as much involvement from the wing, so we don't lose much by moving him. Big concern would be Nofo's positional play. Thompsons positional play is great.
LAUGH NOW CRY LATER--JS


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Post by TCL » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:49 am

Russell wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 9:47 am
Tiger Come Lately wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 9:29 am
1 imo was his fault.

If we are bLaming him for the others, then he is just a scape goat.

In a game where we had over 50 missed tackles we are holding 1 man accountable.

What's the alternative? Tui to fb and Thompson to the wing?

Then we would have conceded 2 down that side and 2 up the middle.
You don't know that! :roll:
That's why I said in my opinion. :roll:

On the radio call yesterday they said Thompson saved two tries?

The reserve grade game I watched last week with Tui at back was, he let two soft try's in (Imo).

2 of the try's yesterday imo no one in our squad was going to stop.

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Post by stevied » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 12:08 pm

larrycorowa wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 7:32 am
If you blame the winger for a loss when the team missing 50+ tackles I think you are missing the point. I thought we look vulnerable on both edges which I think was a function of losing the ruck and struggling in the middle.

They will need to work out what went wrong. We lost the forward battle...,was it selections, rotations? Probably a bit of both.
No one is missing the point Larry. If you read mine and countless other comments in other threads, you would see that we have already stated that the main issue in the loss was the Newcastle domination of the ruck which laid a platform for the Knights halves and fullback to get on a roll. The other factor, was a drop in intensity by the tigers, which led to our worst defensive effort.
However, this doesn't hide the fact that Nofo still has issues with his defense, which is what this thread is about.

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Post by stevied » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 12:11 pm

king sirro wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:47 am
jirskyr wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:33 am
On this topic, surely Cleary will do his HW and make the right decision - he is obviously a good coach.

If he keeps Nofo, we can understand he feels the D was a bigger-picture failure and will work on it with all players.

If he drops Nofo, he would feel Nofo has failed at some key indicator. Being aware of course that Nofo was dropped at season beginning precisely because he had holes in his game.

Trust in the coach?
I think that's right. Ivan will look and assess each situation. No doubt at all Benji will be pulled in to have a look at his mistakes. Whether or not the inside mistakes are enough to give Nofo another chance will be decided by the man who knows best.

Personally, I feel we need to try David at fullback. In a side where we lack real class outwide, he's a very important cog IMO. Would like to see him and Thompson swap. I think Nofo could give fullback a real shake, Thomspon shows just as much involvement from the wing, so we don't lose much by moving him. Big concern would be Nofo's positional play. Thompsons positional play is great.
Your last two sentences explain why your suggestion is not the best solution King Sirro.

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Post by king sirro » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 12:22 pm

stevied wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 12:11 pm
king sirro wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:47 am
jirskyr wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:33 am
On this topic, surely Cleary will do his HW and make the right decision - he is obviously a good coach.

If he keeps Nofo, we can understand he feels the D was a bigger-picture failure and will work on it with all players.

If he drops Nofo, he would feel Nofo has failed at some key indicator. Being aware of course that Nofo was dropped at season beginning precisely because he had holes in his game.

Trust in the coach?
I think that's right. Ivan will look and assess each situation. No doubt at all Benji will be pulled in to have a look at his mistakes. Whether or not the inside mistakes are enough to give Nofo another chance will be decided by the man who knows best.

Personally, I feel we need to try David at fullback. In a side where we lack real class outwide, he's a very important cog IMO. Would like to see him and Thompson swap. I think Nofo could give fullback a real shake, Thomspon shows just as much involvement from the wing, so we don't lose much by moving him. Big concern would be Nofo's positional play. Thompsons positional play is great.
Your last two sentences explain why your suggestion is not the best solution King Sirro.
We don't know that until its tried though do we?
LAUGH NOW CRY LATER--JS


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Post by larrycorowa » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 12:57 pm

stevied wrote:
Sat 21 Apr, 2018 7:49 pm
Nofo started the season in regies and clearly that's where he needs to return to. If he'd read the play correctly in just one of his opposite's three tries, we win. Rarely have I seen such a defensively challenged winger. Yes, he is solid rucking it out of our end and, yes, he can score a try but enough is enough. To play first grade you must be able to run hard, catch the high ball and DEFEND. He is merely passable under the high ball and cannot make correct decisions defensively. That's 1 1/2 out of 3, not good enough to play first grade.
Two of the three tries were created by bad defensive reads inside nofo. If he stays on his man the guy inside scores.

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Post by upthetigers » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 1:35 pm

larrycorowa wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 12:57 pm
stevied wrote:
Sat 21 Apr, 2018 7:49 pm
Nofo started the season in regies and clearly that's where he needs to return to. If he'd read the play correctly in just one of his opposite's three tries, we win. Rarely have I seen such a defensively challenged winger. Yes, he is solid rucking it out of our end and, yes, he can score a try but enough is enough. To play first grade you must be able to run hard, catch the high ball and DEFEND. He is merely passable under the high ball and cannot make correct decisions defensively. That's 1 1/2 out of 3, not good enough to play first grade.
Two of the three tries were created by bad defensive reads inside nofo. If he stays on his man the guy inside scores.
Haha yeah and if he stayed on his man they'd be complaining that he didn't read the play if the inside player scores.

By following the centre in the intercept comes into play. Staying on the wing the inside player gets across the line untouched.

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Post by BalmainTigerForever » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 2:21 pm

Nofa is 10 times the player Zelezniak is, if anyone is to be dropped it's him.

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Post by magpiecol » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 2:25 pm

Both wingers should be dropped.

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Post by Harvey » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 2:31 pm

MWZ was hurt last night, but is ordinary. He should have been able to drive SKD out or compete for the ball.

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Post by BalmainTigerForever » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 2:44 pm

Zelezniak is scared to jump for a ball, dances on the spot or runs sideways but he has never been dropped. at least Nofa runs hard and straight and makes a lot of meters. the try Zelezniak let in yesterday was a joke but i bet he will still be there this week again as usual. this super star must be one of Cleary's pets as with Godinet. it seems Tui and Nofo cannot do anything right in Cleary's eyes.

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Post by Fibros » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 2:51 pm

stevied wrote:
Sat 21 Apr, 2018 7:49 pm
Nofo started the season in regies and clearly that's where he needs to return to. If he'd read the play correctly in just one of his opposite's three tries, we win. Rarely have I seen such a defensively challenged winger. Yes, he is solid rucking it out of our end and, yes, he can score a try but enough is enough. To play first grade you must be able to run hard, catch the high ball and DEFEND. He is merely passable under the high ball and cannot make correct decisions defensively. That's 1 1/2 out of 3, not good enough to play first grade.
Seriously? Try watching the replay. Benji is lucky Reynolds is out or he could be the one dropped for defensive issues.
We will smash em 50+ get on.

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Post by Fibros » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 2:56 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Sat 21 Apr, 2018 11:25 pm
So I'd say in review:
#1 Benji commits to the dummy, forces Marsters to come in on Ponga, Nofo burst out for Ross and Ponga picks it. Perhaps Nofo can stay out and let the cover take the centre. So I'd say Benji causes the main problem but Marsters and Nofo manage to take nobody, i.e. you need to be faster if you are going to cut players off.

#2 Benji again I reckon, comes in too hard on Pearce, but nobody is sliding... I thought Tigers were a sliding team in 2018 rather than an up-in edge defence? If Benji backs off, Rochow covers the inside and Nofo isn't caught so far inside his sideline. I will say however I feel Nofo is still over-committed here, he doesn't need to be 10 m inside, there's no chance he'll get to his winger if they cut-out. Marsters needs some opportunity to turn and chance, but he'll never reach the winger. Any surprise both these tries are rapid cut-outs, like Knights know Nofo will come in?

#3 Short side, we had the numbers and though Benji gets clipped I don't think he makes a mistake here. Marsters focuses on Pearce (?) but fails to cover it and Nofo only has eyes for Ross. I'm still pretty annoyed that Nofo gets beaten on the inside because he doesn't look at his winger at any time, even in the scramble.

So overall is Nofo just to blame? Certainly not. Problem is for me, the inside defenders are often likely to make a defensive error, because whenever teams run these plays they have an overlap. Thompson on play #3 goes into the line for exactly that reason, because if they pull in the FB or stack some backrowers then you are short-manned. But Nofo turns like the Queen Mary, so even if his inside guys make some tough / wrong reads, he has very little ability to recover, because he comes in too hard.

The cover is rarely going to reach the winger, you need to come up and then slide if you see the have the numbers. Again, we seemed to be playing a lot of up-and-in defence on RHS this evening, which I thought we had started to move away from in 2018.
And there is there prof. Thanks Jirskyr.

Now do we drop Benji and reinstate Nofo?
We will smash em 50+ get on.

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Post by InBenjiWeTrust » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 3:19 pm

Nofoaluma's kick returns and going forward are very important for our attack, and arguably he is one of the best in the league, unfortunately, his bad reading/positioning are just extension from previous years.
IMHO, he has to learn it in ISP, and be replaced with 'like for like' player e.g. Fonua or Price, and definitely not Thompson, who is our best FB by miles.
This reminds me on one of 'Sheens geniuses' evergreens: move Tedesco to center, Moses to FB, Lawrence to 5/8 :bash

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Post by Pawsandclaws » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 4:29 pm

BalmainTigerForever wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 2:44 pm
Zelezniak is scared to jump for a ball, dances on the spot or runs sideways but he has never been dropped. at least Nofa runs hard and straight and makes a lot of meters. the try Zelezniak let in yesterday was a joke but i bet he will still be there this week again as usual. this super star must be one of Cleary's pets as with Godinet. it seems Tui and Nofo cannot do anything right in Cleary's eyes.
Being promoted back into the team to me was always a test to win Cleary's confidence. Remember, the other wingers are on a ;pittance compared to him. That there is so much discussion about his performance suggests his performance was not what we would expect from a highly experienced and well paid winger.

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Post by momo&medo » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 4:46 pm

Harvey wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 2:31 pm
MWZ was hurt last night, but is ordinary. He should have been able to drive SKD out or compete for the ball.
He got caught too far forward. If he positioned himself better he would have definitely had a better result.

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Post by ferret » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 5:05 pm

:?: I think Mahha Fonua would a better choice than Nofo.

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Post by bathursttiger » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 5:50 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Sat 21 Apr, 2018 11:25 pm
So I'd say in review:
#1 Benji commits to the dummy, forces Marsters to come in on Ponga, Nofo burst out for Ross and Ponga picks it. Perhaps Nofo can stay out and let the cover take the centre. So I'd say Benji causes the main problem but Marsters and Nofo manage to take nobody, i.e. you need to be faster if you are going to cut players off.

#2 Benji again I reckon, comes in too hard on Pearce, but nobody is sliding... I thought Tigers were a sliding team in 2018 rather than an up-in edge defence? If Benji backs off, Rochow covers the inside and Nofo isn't caught so far inside his sideline. I will say however I feel Nofo is still over-committed here, he doesn't need to be 10 m inside, there's no chance he'll get to his winger if they cut-out. Marsters needs some opportunity to turn and chance, but he'll never reach the winger. Any surprise both these tries are rapid cut-outs, like Knights know Nofo will come in?

#3 Short side, we had the numbers and though Benji gets clipped I don't think he makes a mistake here. Marsters focuses on Pearce (?) but fails to cover it and Nofo only has eyes for Ross. I'm still pretty annoyed that Nofo gets beaten on the inside because he doesn't look at his winger at any time, even in the scramble.

So overall is Nofo just to blame? Certainly not. Problem is for me, the inside defenders are often likely to make a defensive error, because whenever teams run these plays they have an overlap. Thompson on play #3 goes into the line for exactly that reason, because if they pull in the FB or stack some backrowers then you are short-manned. But Nofo turns like the Queen Mary, so even if his inside guys make some tough / wrong reads, he has very little ability to recover, because he comes in too hard.

The cover is rarely going to reach the winger, you need to come up and then slide if you see the have the numbers. Again, we seemed to be playing a lot of up-and-in defence on RHS this evening, which I thought we had started to move away from in 2018.
Good points here Jirskyr, but if Nofo stays on his wing it might give the cover time to get any player inside, but the cover has no chance of covering the winger.
Every coach knows that Nofo always rushes in, and they target this with long ball or cut out pass.
Tui to FB Corey to Right wing.

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