Nofo Must Do His Time

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jirskyr
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Re: Nofo Must Do His Time

Post by jirskyr » Mon 23 Apr, 2018 9:42 am

upthetigers wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:12 pm
Needaname wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:00 pm
formerguest wrote:
Sat 21 Apr, 2018 8:00 pm
He could have made different choices, but it seemed, as all wingers are taught, that he was simply following his half and centre inside him.
Wingers are taught to stay on their man and trust the man inside to cover the space.
Pretty stupid to trust the inside man to cover the space when they have already made a defensive decision creating a massive hole if you stay on your man.
Not true at all, just depends on what type of defence you are using.

I think Tigers are better as a slide defending team, we generally have enough lateral pace on the edges to do this, i.e. Naiqama and Marsters, Benji and Brooks aren't slow-pokes to be run-around by fullbacks or centres.

Prime example is Round 2 vs Storm, Melbourne shifted left and Marsters had come in on Hoffman, but instead they hit Curtis Scott. But Nofo didn't come in, he backed off, and Marsters was able to turn and chase Scott to the corner. This forced Scott to run into Nofo as well and they both took him over the sideline.

There was another match, I think the Broncos game when Nofo showed his winger the corner with slide defence, and put him into touch (Opacic?).

So if you are 4 on 5, there are holes by default because you are a man short. Whether or not those holes are realised inside or out, the fact is cover defence has less far to run on inside runners than outside runners.

But I think the main point being made on Nofo isn't that following his centre in being wrong, just that his decision making and actual pace are problematic, because he ends up taking nobody. Nofo is not renowned for cutting off attacking raids, but he is fairly well known for being beaten by a cut-out pass. He's also got quite a reputation for intercepts as well IMO, which just goes to show you how often oppositions try to cut him out.

Regardless of your opinion, it was clear that Knights put most of their attacks down our RHS, and ultimately to good effect. Sharks did the same thing in the trial.


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Post by underdog » Mon 23 Apr, 2018 10:03 am

Fonua for Nofo.
Gamble to the bench for cover on Marshall. Taylor and Liddle to share the Dummy Half duties.
Godinet to State cup.

Gamble looks ridiculously too good for state cup - he needs a run somwhere.
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Post by Sco77y » Mon 23 Apr, 2018 10:22 am

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 9:42 am
upthetigers wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:12 pm
Needaname wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:00 pm
formerguest wrote:
Sat 21 Apr, 2018 8:00 pm
He could have made different choices, but it seemed, as all wingers are taught, that he was simply following his half and centre inside him.
Wingers are taught to stay on their man and trust the man inside to cover the space.
Pretty stupid to trust the inside man to cover the space when they have already made a defensive decision creating a massive hole if you stay on your man.
Not true at all, just depends on what type of defence you are using.

I think Tigers are better as a slide defending team, we generally have enough lateral pace on the edges to do this, i.e. Naiqama and Marsters, Benji and Brooks aren't slow-pokes to be run-around by fullbacks or centres.

Prime example is Round 2 vs Storm, Melbourne shifted left and Marsters had come in on Hoffman, but instead they hit Curtis Scott. But Nofo didn't come in, he backed off, and Marsters was able to turn and chase Scott to the corner. This forced Scott to run into Nofo as well and they both took him over the sideline.

There was another match, I think the Broncos game when Nofo showed his winger the corner with slide defence, and put him into touch (Opacic?).

So if you are 4 on 5, there are holes by default because you are a man short. Whether or not those holes are realised inside or out, the fact is cover defence has less far to run on inside runners than outside runners.

But I think the main point being made on Nofo isn't that following his centre in being wrong, just that his decision making and actual pace are problematic, because he ends up taking nobody. Nofo is not renowned for cutting off attacking raids, but he is fairly well known for being beaten by a cut-out pass. He's also got quite a reputation for intercepts as well IMO, which just goes to show you how often oppositions try to cut him out.

Regardless of your opinion, it was clear that Knights put most of their attacks down our RHS, and ultimately to good effect. Sharks did the same thing in the trial.
Good points. Nofa racing in will almost always result in one thing - a try down his sideline. It isn't the best position to be in once you're already outnumbered but if he was to hedge his bets and cover 50/50 inside and outside it might give the rest of our defence enough time to slide across and give him some support if he needs to make a last ditch attempt at tackling the opposition running down the sideline. Rush in - guaranteed try, hold off and at least there is a chance of stopping the play.

I agree it's a team effort, but Noffa really can't be relied upon to save the day if things go a little wrong in formation.

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Post by 851 » Mon 23 Apr, 2018 1:57 pm

bathursttiger wrote:
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 7:19 am
851 wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 8:15 pm
bathursttiger wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 5:50 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Sat 21 Apr, 2018 11:25 pm
So I'd say in review:
#1 Benji commits to the dummy, forces Marsters to come in on Ponga, Nofo burst out for Ross and Ponga picks it. Perhaps Nofo can stay out and let the cover take the centre. So I'd say Benji causes the main problem but Marsters and Nofo manage to take nobody, i.e. you need to be faster if you are going to cut players off.

#2 Benji again I reckon, comes in too hard on Pearce, but nobody is sliding... I thought Tigers were a sliding team in 2018 rather than an up-in edge defence? If Benji backs off, Rochow covers the inside and Nofo isn't caught so far inside his sideline. I will say however I feel Nofo is still over-committed here, he doesn't need to be 10 m inside, there's no chance he'll get to his winger if they cut-out. Marsters needs some opportunity to turn and chance, but he'll never reach the winger. Any surprise both these tries are rapid cut-outs, like Knights know Nofo will come in?

#3 Short side, we had the numbers and though Benji gets clipped I don't think he makes a mistake here. Marsters focuses on Pearce (?) but fails to cover it and Nofo only has eyes for Ross. I'm still pretty annoyed that Nofo gets beaten on the inside because he doesn't look at his winger at any time, even in the scramble.

So overall is Nofo just to blame? Certainly not. Problem is for me, the inside defenders are often likely to make a defensive error, because whenever teams run these plays they have an overlap. Thompson on play #3 goes into the line for exactly that reason, because if they pull in the FB or stack some backrowers then you are short-manned. But Nofo turns like the Queen Mary, so even if his inside guys make some tough / wrong reads, he has very little ability to recover, because he comes in too hard.

The cover is rarely going to reach the winger, you need to come up and then slide if you see the have the numbers. Again, we seemed to be playing a lot of up-and-in defence on RHS this evening, which I thought we had started to move away from in 2018.
Good points here Jirskyr, but if Nofo stays on his wing it might give the cover time to get any player inside, but the cover has no chance of covering the winger.
Every coach knows that Nofo always rushes in, and they target this with long ball or cut out pass.
Tui to FB Corey to Right wing.
Tui has been less than ordinary, he is not even close to NRL standard on current form, and his effort in ISP has been very lack lustre
So just leave Nofa there to let his opposing winger have a free run to the try line.
I’m a fan of Nofa but he needs to learn not to go racing in and come up empty handed every time.
Parra will kill him with those long cut out passes, if he continues to rush in.
No Noffa deserves to be dropped, but Tui does not deserve to be promoted
Go hard or go home

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Post by 851 » Mon 23 Apr, 2018 1:58 pm

Double post
Go hard or go home


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Post by upthetigers » Mon 23 Apr, 2018 5:32 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 9:42 am
upthetigers wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:12 pm
Needaname wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:00 pm
formerguest wrote:
Sat 21 Apr, 2018 8:00 pm
He could have made different choices, but it seemed, as all wingers are taught, that he was simply following his half and centre inside him.
Wingers are taught to stay on their man and trust the man inside to cover the space.
Pretty stupid to trust the inside man to cover the space when they have already made a defensive decision creating a massive hole if you stay on your man.
Not true at all, just depends on what type of defence you are using.

I think Tigers are better as a slide defending team, we generally have enough lateral pace on the edges to do this, i.e. Naiqama and Marsters, Benji and Brooks aren't slow-pokes to be run-around by fullbacks or centres.

Prime example is Round 2 vs Storm, Melbourne shifted left and Marsters had come in on Hoffman, but instead they hit Curtis Scott. But Nofo didn't come in, he backed off, and Marsters was able to turn and chase Scott to the corner. This forced Scott to run into Nofo as well and they both took him over the sideline.

There was another match, I think the Broncos game when Nofo showed his winger the corner with slide defence, and put him into touch (Opacic?).

So if you are 4 on 5, there are holes by default because you are a man short. Whether or not those holes are realised inside or out, the fact is cover defence has less far to run on inside runners than outside runners.

But I think the main point being made on Nofo isn't that following his centre in being wrong, just that his decision making and actual pace are problematic, because he ends up taking nobody. Nofo is not renowned for cutting off attacking raids, but he is fairly well known for being beaten by a cut-out pass. He's also got quite a reputation for intercepts as well IMO, which just goes to show you how often oppositions try to cut him out.

Regardless of your opinion, it was clear that Knights put most of their attacks down our RHS, and ultimately to good effect. Sharks did the same thing in the trial.
So are you telling me you should trust the system, but if there is a breakdown in the system, you should still trust it?

It he stays on his man they would have still scored. When you're Nofa, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

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Post by joelw2002 » Mon 23 Apr, 2018 6:15 pm

WestsBenTigers wrote:
Sat 21 Apr, 2018 9:28 pm
1. Thompson
2. Naiqama
3. Marsters
4. Lolohea/MCK
5. Fonua
There's no way I'd have Naiqama on the wing and I'd still keep Malakai on the left wing.
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Post by joelw2002 » Mon 23 Apr, 2018 6:31 pm

Harvey wrote:
Sun 22 Apr, 2018 2:31 pm
MWZ was hurt last night, but is ordinary. He should have been able to drive SKD out or compete for the ball.
Malakai out done SKD all game. He always beat him on the highball, he would put pressure on him under the high ball then he'd drop the ball. Unfortunately he got a bit unlucky with that last try and slipped up a little. And people are blaming him for letting in that last try imo he was one of our best. He let in one try all game that was actually a really hard try to stop when our right side let in about 3 stupid tries.
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Post by jirskyr » Mon 23 Apr, 2018 8:10 pm

upthetigers wrote:
Mon 23 Apr, 2018 5:32 pm

So are you telling me you should trust the system, but if there is a breakdown in the system, you should still trust it?

It he stays on his man they would have still scored. When you're Nofa, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
You have a point, if the system is for everyone to come in then yes, not his fault.

What I am saying though is he doesn't really come in or stay out, he goes to the no-mans-land. Frankly with Nofo, he's damned if he doesn't and damned if he still also doesn't, because it's mostly doesn't.

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