Why Not the Balmain Bears?

Balmain Tigers and Western Suburbs Magpies Junior Development Discussion
Magpie Magic
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Re: Why Not the Balmain Bears?

Unread post by Magpie Magic » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 10:58 am

Glennb wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 10:40 am
I was at the BDRLFC club meeting where we voted to merge with Wests and it was widely accepted it was the best fit. Not sure if you remember at the time that all the word was Balmain would merge (be swallowed up by) Parra.

At the time that the Balmain/Wests and Manly/Bears merges happened, Norths had either just gone broke or were on the verge of going broke. Manly were actually pretty smart because due tot he fact that Norths actually had nothing to contribute, it was effectively a takeover. Now you might then hypothesise then why didnt Balmain take over the Bears to be the dominant partner and take the same route as manly?

The fact is Balmain needed help. They needed a partner who could contribute and Wests were in exactly the same boat. It was the right (but painful) step and Wests/Balmain was the right partnership.

Any discussion about this cant be taken on face value. I was a voting member of BDLRLFC for those years and for probably 4-5 years pre the merger Balmain were struggling and probably would not have made it long term and definitely couldnt compete in the short term.

What nobody talks about is that BEFORE the Superleague war, the ARL were introducing pretty much the exact same criteria for acceptance into the competition. I was at a meeting at which Arthurson addressed the BDRLFC members and notified us that all clubs had been issued a notice that they had 3 years to meet certain criteria such as 10K average crowds, $10M annual turnover, certain corporate facilities at grounds etc...Clubs that didnt meet these criteria would not receive automatic qualification into the ARL competition. At the time Balmain didnt meet one of the criteria. This was the reason for the "Sydney Tigers" moving to Parra stadium and wearing that hideous jersey with the purple stripe.

Tough times, bad memories. All old supporters, Tigers & Magpies have those boards to thank for our existence today and we shouldnt forget that or make light of it.

100%.

Super league actually introduced some fairness.

The real issues began in 1983 when Newtown and Wests we're booted out and Wests won a court case to get began in and the NSWRL incorporated and changed the rules again.

That was when the red line was crossed and teams had no security and RL wasn't going to remain as we new it.

Super league actually wanted all Sydney clubs merged 50 50.


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Unread post by shane2801 » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 10:59 am

Im sick of hearing about Balmain personally.
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Unread post by kingbrooks » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 11:06 am

balmain and wests was the right option

norths should have merged with parra and manly kept by themselves

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Unread post by GNR4LIFE » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 11:10 am

I wish the Bears were still around. Tragedy that the game has lost North Sydney Oval.

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Unread post by jirskyr » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 11:42 am

I was going to write a bit, people jumped in with the details already.

I do recall it was originally mooted to be Canterbury-Wests and Parramatta-Balmain to merge. Bears were always in line with Manly because of the geography you note.

Balmain and Wests both felt that the proposed mergers were more take-overs, and resisted, found common ground with each other and merged.

I think the members of the two football clubs supported it because of the natural feeling of the merger, I could never have comfortably supported an alignment with Parramatta, I would probably have gotten over it, but I always like Wests enough, they had the same battler-type background as Balmain, similar supporter base, it all just made sense.

They made a hash of the management but really as far as mergers go in rugby league, it's probably the most successful one, funny to say. They talk about internal ructions of the two factions but modern supporters are pretty on-board, there is only a very small core of Balmain- or Wests-centric supporters now 18 years later, and all the new supporters (kids) don't even identify with Balmain or Magpies.

WT are able to field a competitive football team every week, that's a measure of success, most mergers went to pot.

St George, a merger in name only for me, how often does the Illawarra or Steeler brand come up? It was a take-over, same thing I think would have happened to Balmain and the Magpies if they'd made other options.

Now for your question on Bears, I don't recall there ever being discussions in that direction. Bears and Tigers (or even Bears and Wests) would not have been a ridiculous fit, but it never really came up as a possibility from my memory. It was always going to be Bears-Manly.

What you can say is if Tigers and Bears had merged, Magpies would have been very strong chance of being cut. Maybe they could have gone down the Souths route and fought for re-admission, who knows.


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Unread post by Glennb » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 11:54 am

jirskyr wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 11:42 am
I was going to write a bit, people jumped in with the details already.

I do recall it was originally mooted to be Canterbury-Wests and Parramatta-Balmain to merge. Bears were always in line with Manly because of the geography you note.

Balmain and Wests both felt that the proposed mergers were more take-overs, and resisted, found common ground with each other and merged.

I think the members of the two football clubs supported it because of the natural feeling of the merger, I could never have comfortably supported an alignment with Parramatta, I would probably have gotten over it, but I always like Wests enough, they had the same battler-type background as Balmain, similar supporter base, it all just made sense.

They made a hash of the management but really as far as mergers go in rugby league, it's probably the most successful one, funny to say. They talk about internal ructions of the two factions but modern supporters are pretty on-board, there is only a very small core of Balmain- or Wests-centric supporters now 18 years later, and all the new supporters (kids) don't even identify with Balmain or Magpies.

WT are able to field a competitive football team every week, that's a measure of success, most mergers went to pot.

St George, a merger in name only for me, how often does the Illawarra or Steeler brand come up? It was a take-over, same thing I think would have happened to Balmain and the Magpies if they'd made other options.

Now for your question on Bears, I don't recall there ever being discussions in that direction. Bears and Tigers (or even Bears and Wests) would not have been a ridiculous fit, but it never really came up as a possibility from my memory. It was always going to be Bears-Manly.

What you can say is if Tigers and Bears had merged, Magpies would have been very strong chance of being cut. Maybe they could have gone down the Souths route and fought for re-admission, who knows.
If Wests or Balmain went the Souths route, they would not be in existence today. They would have gone broke quite quickly and the NRL would not be in any mind to prop them up. They would have faced the same problems taht they were facing pre-merger. Stand alone may have been possible initially but it was not sustainable. The Souths situation is not really relavent because YES they did fight and get re-admitted but would not have survived without Rusty and HAC buying them. In some ways Souffs situation is no different to the Wests Tigers. We are no longer Balmain or Wests and they are no longer SSDRLFC. I guess they get to wear their old jerseys.

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Unread post by TrueTiger » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 12:17 pm

My take on the whole merger,take over thing is,some clubs were on the ropes and may probably not existed much longer than they had...the Superleague really blew some clubs apart with the offering of big money that would of been unsustainable by the struggling clubs,anyway enough said on what should have or should not have been...Personally as many on here know,I was a Balmain boy my whole life,I lived and breathed the Tigers,the best thing for me was to embrace the merger as I had friends who played for the mighty Magpies and didn't mind them as I also liked the Newtown jets having lived there while attending business college..

Let me just say...it doesn't matter that the younger kids only know the WTs as they are today,for me and hopefully many Magpie brothers and sisters can solely enjoy the JV as we are lucky to have two great foundation clubs in one and with great leadership on and off the field we will be a club going forward at the rate of knots...I now live and breath Wests Tigers,thanks to the people who made this JV possible,we now need competence at all levels and we will be the force that the Magpies and Tigers once were in their early days....
You may see me struggle...but you will never see me quit... :D

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Unread post by jadtiger » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 12:39 pm

TrueTiger wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 12:17 pm
My take on the whole merger,take over thing is,some clubs were on the ropes and may probably not existed much longer than they had...the Superleague really blew some clubs apart with the offering of big money that would of been unsustainable by the struggling clubs,anyway enough said on what should have or should not have been...Personally as many on here know,I was a Balmain boy my whole life,I lived and breathed the Tigers,the best thing for me was to embrace the merger as I had friends who played for the mighty Magpies and didn't mind them as I also liked the Newtown jets having lived there while attending business college..

Let me just say...it doesn't matter that the younger kids only know the WTs as they are today,for me and hopefully many Magpie brothers and sisters can solely enjoy the JV as we are lucky to have two great foundation clubs in one and with great leadership on and off the field we will be a club going forward at the rate of knots...I now live and breath Wests Tigers,thanks to the people who made this JV possible,we now need competence at all levels and we will be the force that the Magpies and Tigers once were in their early days....
Well said i was Balmain Tigers to the bone but after the merger am proud to be Wests Tigers

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Unread post by innsaneink » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 12:48 pm

Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 9:53 am
I suppose Bulldogs have Regents Park etc but Maggies should have Fairfield etc.
Dogs have regents Park berala etc, Enfield feds now with Balmain
Fairfield is Parra
Burwood/concord, five dock rsl, strathfield a Balmain

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Unread post by bathursttiger » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 12:59 pm

I'm am old Balmain supporter and I am a devoted West Tigers supporter from 2000.

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 1:03 pm

shane2801 wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 10:59 am
Im sick of hearing about Balmain personally.
Feel free not to venture back in the thread then.
It's not cruelty if you inject enough amphetamines...

Fuerza en la adversidad.

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Unread post by jirskyr » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 1:04 pm

innsaneink wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 12:48 pm
Byron Bay Fan wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 9:53 am
I suppose Bulldogs have Regents Park etc but Maggies should have Fairfield etc.
Dogs have regents Park berala etc, Enfield feds now with Balmain
Fairfield is Parra
Burwood/concord, five dock rsl, strathfield a Balmain
There is a long and varied history of how certain areas came to be under certain jurisdictions. Originally it was a lot about residency rules and clubs having to place players/junior clubs within their boundaries to qualify. The boundaries went in all weird directions depending on the politics of the time.

Balmain JDRLFC includes the Dundas Valley - that's 20 km from Leichhardt Oval! And explain to me how the Carlingford Cougars do not fall into Parramatta junior district?

Canterbury district has a club called the St George Dragons! Dragons JRLFC use Clemton Park as their home ground which is 2.5 km from Canterbury Leagues Club!

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Unread post by shane2801 » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 1:32 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 1:03 pm
shane2801 wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 10:59 am
Im sick of hearing about Balmain personally.
Feel free not to venture back in the thread then.
ok.
BLACK & WHITE...DYNAMITE!!!!!

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stevied
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Unread post by stevied » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 1:50 pm

TrueTiger wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 12:17 pm
My take on the whole merger,take over thing is,some clubs were on the ropes and may probably not existed much longer than they had...the Superleague really blew some clubs apart with the offering of big money that would of been unsustainable by the struggling clubs,anyway enough said on what should have or should not have been...Personally as many on here know,I was a Balmain boy my whole life,I lived and breathed the Tigers,the best thing for me was to embrace the merger as I had friends who played for the mighty Magpies and didn't mind them as I also liked the Newtown jets having lived there while attending business college..

Let me just say...it doesn't matter that the younger kids only know the WTs as they are today,for me and hopefully many Magpie brothers and sisters can solely enjoy the JV as we are lucky to have two great foundation clubs in one and with great leadership on and off the field we will be a club going forward at the rate of knots...I now live and breath Wests Tigers,thanks to the people who made this JV possible,we now need competence at all levels and we will be the force that the Magpies and Tigers once were in their early days....
Good on you TT! I agree with you that we are very lucky to be supporters of a merger between two traditional, foundation clubs and let me tell everyone I am a devoted Wests Tigers supporter! I want to thank all the contributors to this thread for three reasons;
1. It clarified my fairly hazy recollection of the events leading up to and during the merger processes.
2. It reexplained to me the reasons Wests and Balmain merged and why it was the best decision.
3. It provided clear examples of the type of knowledgeable, passionate and fair-minded supporters we have on this site.
As most of you understood, I was merely putting forward a topic for discussion and I'm enjoying it!
Let's hope that, from now on, Wests Tigers management, the players and supporters can all get on the same bus and start providing the success us passionate fans deserve!
Last edited by stevied on Wed 12 Apr, 2017 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread post by MG1962 » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 2:00 pm

True story - back when the West/ Cant merger was first being sounded out. I borrowed a bunch of fan stuff from a Western Bulldogs (Footscray) fan that I knew. Took it to Campbeltown for a game, and told eveyone I had got my hands on some test supporters gear put together by the marketing team at Canterbury.

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 2:04 pm

MG1962 wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 2:00 pm
True story - back when the West/ Cant merger was first being sounded out. I borrowed a bunch of fan stuff from a Western Bulldogs (Footscray) fan that I knew. Took it to Campbeltown for a game, and told eveyone I had got my hands on some test supporters gear put together by the marketing team at Canterbury.
Haha that's awesome.

How many did you fool?
It's not cruelty if you inject enough amphetamines...

Fuerza en la adversidad.

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Unread post by MG1962 » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 2:06 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Tue 11 Apr, 2017 2:04 pm

Haha that's awesome.

How many did you fool?
All of them until I saw how bummed they all were getting - If I recall we did win that day

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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 2:09 pm

That's a pisser... Good stuff! :lol:
It's not cruelty if you inject enough amphetamines...

Fuerza en la adversidad.

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