The Impending Death Of State Cup

Balmain Tigers and Western Suburbs Magpies Junior Development Discussion
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The Impending Death Of State Cup

Post by smeghead » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 11:36 am

In my opinion within the next 3 years State Cup will be dead as we know it.

Reserve grade used to be a proving ground where kids went once they had matured enough and were ready to be tested against old heads and fringe first graders. The ESL and NYC are killing this tradition.

Looking at the probable top 25/30 for next season and the majority of players playing down will be from the NYC. Couple that with the loss of increasingly younger talent to the ESL and it is obvious the competition is in some trouble
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Post by senexx » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 11:47 am

so State Cup = old Reserve Grade
Toyota Cup (NYC) = old Jersey Flegg

Is that correct? As I have been trying to get my head around these new names
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Post by Illek » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 11:51 am

The NYC kids seem to get preference for elevation to first grade from our club, I am not sure if this is the case for other clubs, but it makes me think that you may be correct. Does anyone think the likes of Davis, Pritchard, Gower or Akeripa or any other promising state cup players realistically have a future at the tigers, or will be moving on to a different club?

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Post by smeghead » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 12:13 pm

senex wrote:so State Cup = old Reserve Grade
Toyota Cup (NYC) = old Jersey Flegg

Is that correct? As I have been trying to get my head around these new names
That is spot on
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Post by Staks » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 12:15 pm

At the last CEO's meeting it was discussed to revamp the State Cup. The NSWRL has also stopped dual registrations which will stop the like of Manly and Canberra sending the over age players to the QLD Cup.

I think you will find the State Cup will be bigger and better in the coming years - with more NSW teams fielding stronger teams. Free to air rights on the ABC on a Saturday afternoon are a must also.

State Cup has served the Wests Tigers well in the past few years with the likes of Laurie, Moltzen, Lazarus, Schirnack, Gallant, Hanbury, Tandy, Ryan etc been called up to first grade. Still many more players waiting for the opportunity to prove themselves at the top level. The NYC has provided Dwyer, Mataka, Tagive and Lui at this stage.
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Post by smeghead » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 12:18 pm

Illek wrote:The NYC kids seem to get preference for elevation to first grade from our club, I am not sure if this is the case for other clubs, but it makes me think that you may be correct. Does anyone think the likes of Davis, Pritchard, Gower or Akeripa or any other promising state cup players realistically have a future at the tigers, or will be moving on to a different club?
NYC kids train at the same facility as the NRL squad and often do opposite drills with the team. Guys like you mentioned, for the most part work fulltime and train a few nights a week after work.

As for pre-season I know a few of the BRET State Cup sides took paid, in some cases unpaid, leave from their jobs to really gear up for the season. That is the spirit and determination we need in a club. Not a bunch of overhyped kids being spoonfed the path to success. They wonder why it is said that Rugby League players are out of touch. This could show a reason why.

Please note I am not trying to do a hatchet job on the NYC guys as there is talent there. But I am genuinely concerned for the future of our game. These kids playing a football without defence seeming to be a concern will just continue through the ranks if something is not done to curb it
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Post by simonthetiger » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 1:27 pm

I would like to have JB cup turned into second grade and played on the same day as the firsts and under 20,s.

And covered on fox/free to air of course.

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Post by Illek » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 1:33 pm

Smeg I agree that whilst there is talent in NYC that realistically the premier league sides are much stronger. I also agree that the fact that they work and train really does
prove the determination and commitment if the players. It's a shame that they are overlooked. Having 18 year olds hyped to be the next big thing doesn't always work and it may create the wrong culture, but I do feel the tigers so far have done a good job in managing the player cultures within our clubs. It is one thing we cannot be critised for anymore

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Post by innsaneink » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 3:32 pm

I think the many voiced proposals that the NYC should be an u/23's comp would be a serious threat to state Cup, while it would clearly benefit the 20's players, I reckon it'd drain even further reserve grade.
I didnt like NYC from the start, I dont like them leapfrogging their senior reserve graders, pushing them out to the parks, though this in ARL/NRL/FOX and the NSWRL & Rugby league in general can get stuffed

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Post by galahs » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 4:10 pm

I think the NSW Cup is finally heading in the right direction. A stand alone competition with teams affiliated to NRL sides.

The comps status will increase further with the inclusion of Melbourne and Perth joining the comp next year.


The Jim Beam / Bundy Red cup is of a much lower standard than the NSW Cup and is designed as a step up from club competitions.


Club -> Bundy Red -> NSW Cup -> NRL



U20's is just a revamped national Jersey Flegg comp designed to lock our youth into the game rather than switch codes or give up the game all together in those confusing years when players leave high school. NSW Cup is a tougher comp than the U20's as the forwards are bigger, tougher and more experienced. The NSW Cup is therefor a better stepping stone to the NRL than a youth comp ever will be.
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Post by Illek » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 5:03 pm

galahs wrote:
U20's is just a revamped national Jersey Flegg comp designed to lock our youth into the game rather than switch codes or give up the game all together in those confusing years when players leave high school. NSW Cup is a tougher comp than the U20's as the forwards are bigger, tougher and more experienced. The NSW Cup is therefor a better stepping stone to the NRL than a youth comp ever will be.
I agree with this and the concepts you suggest are good, but it falls short when the clubs overlook deserving players for NYC. If we are not careful it will send the message that once you are 20 you won't have a chance of making it.

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Post by crouching_tiger » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 5:50 pm

NYC = touch footy. Pathetic blowout scorelines is proof in the pudding.
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Post by tiger4ever » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 6:15 pm

I like watching the 20s its good attacking football and yes the defence at this stage isnt the best but im sure over time it will improve.

The sooner the better we join Balmain and wests in 2nd grade and every team enter this comp so we can play the same team in 3 grades the better it will be.

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Post by Staks » Sat 15 Aug, 2009 11:14 pm

tiger4ever wrote:I like watching the 20s its good attacking football and yes the defence at this stage isnt the best but im sure over time it will improve.

The sooner the better we join Balmain and wests in 2nd grade and every team enter this comp so we can play the same team in 3 grades the better it will be.

How you going to play 3 grades when every team isn't represented.
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Post by galahs » Sun 16 Aug, 2009 1:49 am

And how are you going to play three grades when some stadiums only allow 2.
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Post by tiger4ever » Sun 16 Aug, 2009 9:23 am

Staks wrote:
tiger4ever wrote:I like watching the 20s its good attacking football and yes the defence at this stage isnt the best but im sure over time it will improve.

The sooner the better we join Balmain and wests in 2nd grade and every team enter this comp so we can play the same team in 3 grades the better it will be.

How you going to play 3 grades when every team isn't represented.

Well if you read it properly you will see i said that every team enter this comp.

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Post by tiger4ever » Sun 16 Aug, 2009 9:28 am

galahs wrote:And how are you going to play three grades when some stadiums only allow 2.

Look thats a poor excuse and its clear your trying to hold onto what little existence our clubs have but it should be whats better for the wests tigers and every person thats been involved in the WT ALSO SAY THIS IS THE WAY TO GO.

What ground only allows 2 games ive never heard of that.Its not leichhardt surely.

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Post by smeghead » Sun 16 Aug, 2009 9:54 am

As a general rule all of the bigger stadiums only allow one match prior to the main game.

This is changed when they get paid more money for things like the Arrive Alive Cup.

Scheduling is also a big issue with the advent of Friday and Monday night football.

It is a great idea to have 3 grades on one day but there are hurdles to overcome before it will be feesible
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