Sheens has lost the dressing room........

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Re: Sheens has lost the dressing room........

Post by Balmain Bug » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 12:07 am

Watersider you have just blown my mind.
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Post by Twodogs » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 12:10 am

Sheens is the only coach who doesn't drop players for playing crap and doesn't reward playerswaiting in the wings for being the best on the paddock.

For the record, I gave up playing rugby league due to my coach and took up tennis only to be told I wasn't good enough for A grade despite winning B Grade every week so I know how Mullaney must feel.

Teams improve through intra-club competition with players getting rewarded and punished for their performances, but not WT under Sheens. It's no wonder we haven't improved in 6 years despite an improved playing roster.

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Post by shano » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 12:13 am

Agree with many of the posts here, the morale of the players is clearly affected and visible for all to see. They lack passion and the intensity on the field. Something is very wrong. They seem to be just going through the motions. With so many players confirmed leaving and potentially more still to be announced it is definitely having an impact on the team mentally and emotionally.

The only thing certain is that Sheens is not going any where because he has only just signed a 3 year deal and he has the full support of the board at the moment.

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Post by watersider » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 12:19 am

Which players do you all think should be dropped at the moment?

Mullaney for Mckinnon?
Miller for Lui?

Anyone else?

If those are the only contentious decisions in the side then there is little that you all disagree with. Everyone would agree that Lui is a talented player, most would also be willing to say that his form is poor at the moment. So what do you do with talented players who are in poor form? Dropping them is rarely a good way of improving form, can anyone come up with an example where that worked?

As for McKinnon, I've argued all season that Moltzen should be first choice fullback. But, that option is probably even less desirable to forum users then retaining McKinnon there. I can understand why people want him dropped, and I personally agree that he should. But, I can also understand why he is there. he is a proven first grader who has played well at times this year. I haven't seen Mullaney put in a better first grade performance.

All this frustration about team selections ignores the fact that there isn't much changes that can be made.

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Post by innsaneink » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 12:24 am

You make a good point to an extent watersider.....no point putting in a rookie for the sake of it, particulalry if hes not ready... just to replace a first grader out of form, it could be disastrous for the rookie.
But this about much much more than just a loss of form.
Its a loss of trust, respect and team spirit imo.


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Post by watersider » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 12:38 am

I think the point Innsaneink is that we are in realy bad form and haven't really hit our stride this season. I think it is because the side DOES HAVE TEAM SPIRIT and respect that we are in a competitive situation. You don't come from 22-0 down with 20 to go and win if you don't have spirit. Again today, I didn't see the side give up or show a lack of respect. I saw a side out of wack trying to get back into gear...and fail.

I think the poor form can be put down to injuries, players recovering from injuries and changes to the interpretation of the play the balls. All of that has meant we are out of sync. I don't think the player movement helps either. None of this has much to do with Sheens. We are hyperventilating over things the coach has little influence over.

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Post by MightyMaggy » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 7:06 am

watersider wrote:I think the point Innsaneink is that we are in realy bad form and haven't really hit our stride this season. I think it is because the side DOES HAVE TEAM SPIRIT and respect that we are in a competitive situation. You don't come from 22-0 down with 20 to go and win if you don't have spirit. Again today, I didn't see the side give up or show a lack of respect. I saw a side out of wack trying to get back into gear...and fail.

I think the poor form can be put down to injuries, players recovering from injuries and changes to the interpretation of the play the balls. All of that has meant we are out of sync. I don't think the player movement helps either. None of this has much to do with Sheens. We are hyperventilating over things the coach has little influence over.
I don't know where you have been Watersider, but this HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH SHEENS. If you go back a couple of years ago, he was asked by HIS CEO to meet some basic requirements in his job. Sheens had not been asked to perform well in his job up to that moment, even though he turned a premiership winning team into a bunch of also rans.
Sheens reply was to run to some of the management and have the CEO removed! Sheens does not respond well to any form of criticism and it would appear that Humphreys simply kowtows to Sheens.
Don't you wonder why the Cowboys let him go in the middle of his contract term?
Problems like the Tigers have at present start at the top! The top in this case IS THE BOARD, because they are the only people, who have the power to change the CEO AND THE COACH!
Maybe the day will come, when the joint-venture becomes a normal, limited, public company, so the board is answerable to a bigger number of share-holders, like us supporters. This will mean the top brass, and therefore the team, will have to perform or they will be chucked OUT!

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Post by Tiger_heart » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 7:30 am

watersider wrote:I think the point Innsaneink is that we are in realy bad form and haven't really hit our stride this season. I think it is because the side DOES HAVE TEAM SPIRIT and respect that we are in a competitive situation. You don't come from 22-0 down with 20 to go and win if you don't have spirit. Again today, I didn't see the side give up or show a lack of respect. I saw a side out of wack trying to get back into gear...and fail.

I think the poor form can be put down to injuries, players recovering from injuries and changes to the interpretation of the play the balls. All of that has meant we are out of sync. I don't think the player movement helps either. None of this has much to do with Sheens. We are hyperventilating over things the coach has little influence over.
Waterside, a reminder that the posts you are reading might as well be dated back to 2006, for what we have been "hyperventilating" about are chronic issues that this coach and manangement have failed to address and selfishly continue to deny their existence. Let's not miss the elephant in the room, please!
Last edited by Tiger_heart on Sat 09 Jul, 2011 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by softlaw » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 7:31 am

So:
- player movements that we initiated (all of them);
- how our gameplan and selections evolve to fit in with new rule interpretations; and
- how we bring our depth players along to cover for injuries (remembering that at the start of the season everyone was saying how our depth was fabulous this year and that was what was going to give us the real boost when needed).

None of these have anything to do with the head coach?
On the bus or under it!
Your choice.

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Post by LCA » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 7:31 am

Blackpearl wrote:two words ..... steve georgalis. at least he gets commitment and desire from his players
Based on what? Two weeks of Penrith winning games?? C'mon, who had heard of the guy before he took over? Who was spruiking this bloke as a future NRL coach?? Maybe it's a reflection of the team's relief from Elliott being punted and Gould flexing some muscle rather than Georgalis' ability to generate desire and commitment from his players. Give me a break......please.

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Post by LCA » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 7:40 am

"Maybe the day will come, when the joint-venture becomes a normal, limited, public company, so the board is answerable to a bigger number of share-holders, like us supporters. This will mean the top brass, and therefore the team, will have to perform or they will be chucked OUT!"

And, Mighty Maggy, won't that be interesting? Supporters deciding who becomes the coach and the board. We can't get any agreement on issues on here let alone on who should coach us. I think Watersider made some very valid points.

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Post by Balmain Bug » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 8:50 am

LCA, Georgallis is highly regarged by his players. Ask Petero and Luke Lewis. He is an outstanding coach.
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Post by supercoach » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 8:57 am

Balmain Bug wrote:LCA, Georgallis is highly regarged by his players. Ask Petero and Luke Lewis. He is an outstanding coach.

Mate would come with half the price tag and half the ego and probably do twice the job. What ever it costs to flick Sheens it will be money well spent

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Post by watersider » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 9:07 am

To criticise Sheens is one thing, to suggest Georgallis as a replacement is something else altogether. George speaks well and seems to be a solid coach, this is yet to be proven. The club has taken a punt with Wayne Pearce, tommy raudonakis, Terry Lamb before and it didn't work. All were excellent prospects. can we stay on topic please. It is typical of people's analysis of the game on here though that this is actually talked about as a credible solution.

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Post by Tigersmurf » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 9:13 am

I can't believe that forum members are talking up Georgalis, a guy with two first grade wins to his name, because the players think he is a good bloke! Didn't Freddy hold the same record at the chooks?

If he is our only other option then Sheens has to stay. Remember Terry Lamb? He had the credentials in the lower grades and we gave him a shot and look where that got us! I am sure recruitment would be easy under Georgalis when compared to the current national coach.

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Post by watersider » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 9:20 am

The biggest factor for our lacklustre season:

2010 Top 8:

1 St. George Illawarra Dragons
2 Penrith Panthers
3 Wests Tigers
4 Gold Coast Titans
5 New Zealand Warriors
6 Sydney Roosters
7 Canberra Raiders
8 Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles

How many of those sides are doing well this year? Answer: two.

It is very hard to maintain success in the NRL. Ask bulldogs '09, Parra '09, Can '10, Pen '10, SYD '10. It is not hard to find examples. We are doing pretty well compared to most of the other teams in the top 8 last year. But it seems to take 2-3 years to build to a finals campaign in the NRL and when you get there it is very hard to get back there. We are competitive this year despite a big injury toll and despite rule changes which do not favour our style of play. Now, you may argue we should change our style of play and if you are making that argument the best way to do that is to make player changes, which is exactly what we are doing. You can't do that instantly and it does cause disruption.

So, if your argument is that we should change our style of play. The answer to that is we have tried this year and it has been horrible. These players cannot play conservative, consistent play. They are creative and explosive. So, the teams attempt to change the roster is in line with WHAT YOU WANT. I perosnally prefer last nights play to what we have done most of the season which has been bland and predictable football. I think last nights match is a sign that there is still life in this season. Its just a matter of refining their play rather than blowing it up.

If your argument is that we should be playing as well as last year, then you need to look at the injury form and the way it has affected our cohesion and confidence. Lawrence was a good example last night. It was great to see him back but he and Brown need time to gel, that is the first match they have played together. Unfortunately, there has been no stability this season because of injuries. All of the calls to change the side would only contribute to the problems, not fix them.

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Post by Deano1 » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 9:28 am

Who Sheens would be replaced with is a topic for another thread......but the one thing to me that appears pretty clear is that the topic of this thread is correct. The way the team is performing absolutely smacks of it.

ANYBODY that's played a team sport for long enough knows that if the team has issues with the coach or management, their onfield performances suffer, I don't care how professional they are meant to be, it's a part of life and it's a part of sport.

IMHO we had a perfect replacement coach in the wings, FOLKES..... and guess what.....HE'S GONE TOO!!!! :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

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Post by tiger tigers » Sat 09 Jul, 2011 9:37 am

watersider wrote:The biggest factor for our lacklustre season:

2010 Top 8:

1 St. George Illawarra Dragons
2 Penrith Panthers
3 Wests Tigers
4 Gold Coast Titans
5 New Zealand Warriors
6 Sydney Roosters
7 Canberra Raiders
8 Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles

How many of those sides are doing well this year? Answer: two.

It is very hard to maintain success in the NRL. Ask bulldogs '09, Parra '09, Can '10, Pen '10, SYD '10. It is not hard to find examples. We are doing pretty well compared to most of the other teams in the top 8 last year. But it seems to take 2-3 years to build to a finals campaign in the NRL and when you get there it is very hard to get back there. We are competitive this year despite a big injury toll and despite rule changes which do not favour our style of play. Now, you may argue we should change our style of play and if you are making that argument the best way to do that is to make player changes, which is exactly what we are doing. You can't do that instantly and it does cause disruption.

So, if your argument is that we should change our style of play. The answer to that is we have tried this year and it has been horrible. These players cannot play conservative, consistent play. They are creative and explosive. So, the teams attempt to change the roster is in line with WHAT YOU WANT. I perosnally prefer last nights play to what we have done most of the season which has been bland and predictable football. I think last nights match is a sign that there is still life in this season. Its just a matter of refining their play rather than blowing it up.

If your argument is that we should be playing as well as last year, then you need to look at the injury form and the way it has affected our cohesion and confidence. Lawrence was a good example last night. It was great to see him back but he and Brown need time to gel, that is the first match they have played together. Unfortunately, there has been no stability this season because of injuries. All of the calls to change the side would only contribute to the problems, not fix them.
well if we go on your reasons then lets just be happy we wont be playing in the finals , and lets just agree the bounce hasnt favoured us this but rugby league will still be the winner in the end ....you personally prefer last nights play to what we have this season ... mate we got beat 22-6 by one of the most lacklustre sides in the comp ...they also got us 30 blot in a trial.. with a bunch of old guys .. not that trials matter ,,, but sheens hasnt been able to consistanly get these guys up for years......

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