Salary Cap

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bathursttiger
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Re: Salary Cap

Unread post by bathursttiger » Thu 12 Oct, 2017 6:10 pm

Parramatta chief executive Bernie Gurr has asked the NRL to cap third-party player payments to create an even playing field across all 16 clubs.
The NRL confirmed the 2018 salary cap will stand at $9.4 million, although there is no restrictions on third-party deals, allowing richer corporate markets to take advantage.

Registered sponsors have the freedom to spend cash freely on players, but Gurr has called for tighter restrictions to be put in place.

“You can’t have a component of your cap — which is now becoming an even-larger component — that’s not capped,” Gurr told The Cumberland Throw podcast.

“Otherwise, you lose the impact of the cap.

“The TPAs should be capped, otherwise you get a very unfair advantage between say the Canberra market versus the Brisbane corporate market, so I think there is too much disparity on the TPAs.”

Gurr arrived at Parramatta a year out from the club's salary cap saga that derived from illegal third-party payments.

He wants the game to be more transparent with its fans and release the salaries in players' contracts to give the public a peace of mind.

It adds a bit of theatre to the game,” he said.

“People would say my right centre earns this and your right centre gets paid less but is twice as good as your guy.

“It’s no different to people who run public companies, the chairman, CEO and CFO — their salaries are all published. And if they did that, they can publish my salary if they want to.”


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Unread post by Tiger Watto » Thu 12 Oct, 2017 6:28 pm

I've never agreed on the argument about the unfair scenario for teams like Brisbane vs Sydney Teams etc.

That scenario is one based on choice. The choice to keep so many teams in Sydney, the choice to not base a 2nd Team out of Brisbane, choices I feel the NRL must address if it wants to a stronger competition.

If any Sydney Team wants to have the luxury that Brisbane currently has, feel free to move your ship to a traffic generator that will allow you to compete!
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Unread post by Russell » Thu 12 Oct, 2017 7:53 pm

Tiger Watto wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 6:28 pm
I've never agreed on the argument about the unfair scenario for teams like Brisbane vs Sydney Teams etc.

That scenario is one based on choice. The choice to keep so many teams in Sydney, the choice to not base a 2nd Team out of Brisbane, choices I feel the NRL must address if it wants to a stronger competition.

If any Sydney Team wants to have the luxury that Brisbane currently has, feel free to move your ship to a traffic generator that will allow you to compete!
I doubt you would feel the same if it were Brisbane that was so disadvantaged.

It should be as level a playing field for all clubs as can be organised. Having a Friday game and a 7 day turnaround almost every week is just one such discrepancy, there are many others.

The point is to make all teams equal is it not - or do we just want clubs to win the premiership that have the most money or cheat better?

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Unread post by Tiger Watto » Thu 12 Oct, 2017 11:36 pm

Russell wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 7:53 pm
Tiger Watto wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 6:28 pm
I've never agreed on the argument about the unfair scenario for teams like Brisbane vs Sydney Teams etc.

That scenario is one based on choice. The choice to keep so many teams in Sydney, the choice to not base a 2nd Team out of Brisbane, choices I feel the NRL must address if it wants to a stronger competition.

If any Sydney Team wants to have the luxury that Brisbane currently has, feel free to move your ship to a traffic generator that will allow you to compete!
I doubt you would feel the same if it were Brisbane that was so disadvantaged.

It should be as level a playing field for all clubs as can be organised. Having a Friday game and a 7 day turnaround almost every week is just one such discrepancy, there are many others.

The point is to make all teams equal is it not - or do we just want clubs to win the premiership that have the most money or cheat better?
No... The top teir competition for our sport is about delivering competitive matches and successful brands. Making all teams equal would only create a boring version of the game.
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Unread post by jirskyr » Thu 12 Oct, 2017 11:56 pm

Tiger Watto wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 6:28 pm
I've never agreed on the argument about the unfair scenario for teams like Brisbane vs Sydney Teams etc.

That scenario is one based on choice. The choice to keep so many teams in Sydney, the choice to not base a 2nd Team out of Brisbane, choices I feel the NRL must address if it wants to a stronger competition.

If any Sydney Team wants to have the luxury that Brisbane currently has, feel free to move your ship to a traffic generator that will allow you to compete!
The NRL is not choosing to keep sides in Sydney, rather it's difficult for them to force a club to move. You know that.

It's nobody's fault that this business grew out of a local Sydney competition and we still have such a large Sydney influence. They've tried hard enough in Gold Coast - it has the population who already follow league, but it's not that simple.


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Unread post by Cultured Bogan » Fri 13 Oct, 2017 7:39 am

Tiger Watto wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 5:50 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 12:14 pm
Tiger Watto wrote:
Wed 11 Oct, 2017 3:47 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Wed 11 Oct, 2017 3:14 pm
In a points system what are the prerequisites that are required for determining a merely good player from a top tier player?
Each players grading would be a compilation of points inclusive of a base & variable loadings etc?
Yes but does it discriminate based on certain attributes? Will a defensive second rower grade worse than an attacking second rower? Will metres gained, tries scored and line breaks be favoured over total tackles, least missed tackles and less errors?
Mate, I dont know the answer to the actualy scenario which would attribute to a grading system, but I know it simply cant be like Super Coach or Fantasy League etc. They are some of the dumbest gradings I have seen.

I feel Experience over Rookie has a exact value, I feel a Centre over a Halfback has another value, a 5 game SOO player over a 20 Game SOO Player etc, but I dont feel it should be based on each players actualy work-rate.

Its only an option/alternative to discuss based on most peoples disgust in the current un-even playing field based on a $ Cap, TPA's and the lack of reward for clubs who develop juniors etc.
I'm not disputing what you're advocating has no merit, just thinking out loud on how it would work.

And with the points system, it would seem that money can still win over when say Easts and Wests are chasing the same player with the same points because they both have the points available and Easts can ring in an "external TPA" and still sign said player over us. It will create a more even spread of talent in a manner of speaking but where battling clubs are competing against richer clubs for the same crop of players the richer clubs will always win out.

All of these scenarios would need to be played out when considering a change to such system. I suspect no matter how the NRL approach it, there will always be loopholes to exploit.
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Unread post by underdog » Fri 13 Oct, 2017 11:03 am

The problem with a points system is that it's completely subjective.

SALARIES are not subjective. They are what someone was willing to be paid at a given moment.

Do what the NFL does - Make the Salaries of the players public - sure people on the forum might argue that it's an invasion of privacy, however If you build the culture from the ground up - (e.g - the players know from their first day in a top 30 squad that their salaries are public domain, and that's what they sign up for) then it isn't an issue.

At least this way club spending can be scrutinised.

Sure, 3rd parties can be still rorted, however this would be the start to even up the playing field.

Then look at down the track NRL releasing 3rd party deal details as well - If every 3rd party deal MUST be cleared by the NRL, then surely that information is able to be tabulated, and put out.

At least this way media speculation, and managers pumping up their own tires would be also taken out of the equation.
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Unread post by bathursttiger » Fri 13 Oct, 2017 9:05 pm

Cultured Bogan wrote:
Fri 13 Oct, 2017 7:39 am
Tiger Watto wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 5:50 pm
Cultured Bogan wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 12:14 pm
Tiger Watto wrote:
Wed 11 Oct, 2017 3:47 pm

Each players grading would be a compilation of points inclusive of a base & variable loadings etc?
Yes but does it discriminate based on certain attributes? Will a defensive second rower grade worse than an attacking second rower? Will metres gained, tries scored and line breaks be favoured over total tackles, least missed tackles and less errors?
Mate, I dont know the answer to the actualy scenario which would attribute to a grading system, but I know it simply cant be like Super Coach or Fantasy League etc. They are some of the dumbest gradings I have seen.

I feel Experience over Rookie has a exact value, I feel a Centre over a Halfback has another value, a 5 game SOO player over a 20 Game SOO Player etc, but I dont feel it should be based on each players actualy work-rate.

Its only an option/alternative to discuss based on most peoples disgust in the current un-even playing field based on a $ Cap, TPA's and the lack of reward for clubs who develop juniors etc.
I'm not disputing what you're advocating has no merit, just thinking out loud on how it would work.

And with the points system, it would seem that money can still win over when say Easts and Wests are chasing the same player with the same points because they both have the points available and Easts can ring in an "external TPA" and still sign said player over us. It will create a more even spread of talent in a manner of speaking but where battling clubs are competing against richer clubs for the same crop of players the richer clubs will always win out.

All of these scenarios would need to be played out when considering a change to such system. I suspect no matter how the NRL approach it, there will always be loopholes to exploit.
With a points base system it doesn't matter how much you pay a player, it what his value in points that matters.
If Cameron Smith is valved at 52 points the Storm can pay him $10 million dollars or $20k per year.
It's the points that determine his part of the Storms points limit.
So clubs can't assemble a team of stars by having small contracts and topping them up with huge TPA's from rich benefactors that have nothing to do with the club, but are pressured by influential people like Nick or Packer and co.
Anything has got to be better than the current system that lends itself to be wroughted by huge TPA's that the richer clubs or rich supporters can provide.

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Unread post by WestsBenTigers » Fri 13 Oct, 2017 9:52 pm

Tiger Watto wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 11:36 pm
Russell wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 7:53 pm
Tiger Watto wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 6:28 pm
I've never agreed on the argument about the unfair scenario for teams like Brisbane vs Sydney Teams etc.

That scenario is one based on choice. The choice to keep so many teams in Sydney, the choice to not base a 2nd Team out of Brisbane, choices I feel the NRL must address if it wants to a stronger competition.

If any Sydney Team wants to have the luxury that Brisbane currently has, feel free to move your ship to a traffic generator that will allow you to compete!
I doubt you would feel the same if it were Brisbane that was so disadvantaged.

It should be as level a playing field for all clubs as can be organised. Having a Friday game and a 7 day turnaround almost every week is just one such discrepancy, there are many others.

The point is to make all teams equal is it not - or do we just want clubs to win the premiership that have the most money or cheat better?
No... The top teir competition for our sport is about delivering competitive matches and successful brands. Making all teams equal would only create a boring version of the game.
If you make teams equal you have competitive games.

If the teams are not equal, the games are not competitive.

What you said makes no sense!

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Unread post by steve-o » Fri 13 Oct, 2017 10:16 pm

Chicken Faced Killa wrote:
Tue 10 Oct, 2017 10:49 pm
bathursttiger wrote:
Tue 10 Oct, 2017 9:55 pm
Chicken Faced Killa wrote:
Tue 10 Oct, 2017 8:31 pm
bathursttiger wrote:
Tue 10 Oct, 2017 8:02 pm


I've been advocating this for years with my friends.
A similar system to Supercoach, where players are rated on their level and all teams have the same skill/experience level.
Eg: Australian player worth 50 points
SOS player worth x points
200 NRL game player worth x points etc.
The problem with this system is what happens when you sign players for 3 and 4 years and they make SOS or the Australian team so you are over the cap through developing players.

How long is a player worth the SOS or Australian team points? If a player plays one game are they worth those points for their entire careers.

No matter what system you use there are going to be problems.
Anything has to be better then the current system where some clubs can manipulate the salary cap with TPA's.
Sign a player like SBW for $400k and give him $500k TPA.
Is that fair?
Don't think so, when the idea behind the salary cap was to create a level playing field.
I agree the current system favours some clubs over others and is not ideal. TPA should have to go through the NRL and be negotiated with the NRL.
This is the best solution IMO
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Unread post by steve-o » Fri 13 Oct, 2017 10:22 pm

underdog wrote:
Fri 13 Oct, 2017 11:03 am
The problem with a points system is that it's completely subjective.

SALARIES are not subjective. They are what someone was willing to be paid at a given moment.

Do what the NFL does - Make the Salaries of the players public - sure people on the forum might argue that it's an invasion of privacy, however If you build the culture from the ground up - (e.g - the players know from their first day in a top 30 squad that their salaries are public domain, and that's what they sign up for) then it isn't an issue.

At least this way club spending can be scrutinised.

Sure, 3rd parties can be still rorted, however this would be the start to even up the playing field.

Then look at down the track NRL releasing 3rd party deal details as well - If every 3rd party deal MUST be cleared by the NRL, then surely that information is able to be tabulated, and put out.

At least this way media speculation, and managers pumping up their own tires would be also taken out of the equation.
I agree with all of this. NRL players want to be treated like the rock stars of the NFL, and yet they don't want to make any of the sacrifices (eg salaries made public, minimum media/promotional activities, central authority for player discipline etc).
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Unread post by Geo. » Sat 14 Oct, 2017 7:56 am

WestsBenTigers wrote:
Fri 13 Oct, 2017 9:52 pm
Tiger Watto wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 11:36 pm
Russell wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 7:53 pm
Tiger Watto wrote:
Thu 12 Oct, 2017 6:28 pm
I've never agreed on the argument about the unfair scenario for teams like Brisbane vs Sydney Teams etc.

That scenario is one based on choice. The choice to keep so many teams in Sydney, the choice to not base a 2nd Team out of Brisbane, choices I feel the NRL must address if it wants to a stronger competition.

If any Sydney Team wants to have the luxury that Brisbane currently has, feel free to move your ship to a traffic generator that will allow you to compete!
I doubt you would feel the same if it were Brisbane that was so disadvantaged.

It should be as level a playing field for all clubs as can be organised. Having a Friday game and a 7 day turnaround almost every week is just one such discrepancy, there are many others.

The point is to make all teams equal is it not - or do we just want clubs to win the premiership that have the most money or cheat better?
No... The top teir competition for our sport is about delivering competitive matches and successful brands. Making all teams equal would only create a boring version of the game.
If you make teams equal you have competitive games.

If the teams are not equal, the games are not competitive.

What you said makes no sense!
:lol: Been putting up with it for Years Ben,,,
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Unread post by Earl » Sat 14 Oct, 2017 10:28 am

underdog wrote:
Fri 13 Oct, 2017 11:03 am
The problem with a points system is that it's completely subjective.

SALARIES are not subjective. They are what someone was willing to be paid at a given moment.

Do what the NFL does - Make the Salaries of the players public - sure people on the forum might argue that it's an invasion of privacy, however If you build the culture from the ground up - (e.g - the players know from their first day in a top 30 squad that their salaries are public domain, and that's what they sign up for) then it isn't an issue.

At least this way club spending can be scrutinised.

Sure, 3rd parties can be still rorted, however this would be the start to even up the playing field.

Then look at down the track NRL releasing 3rd party deal details as well - If every 3rd party deal MUST be cleared by the NRL, then surely that information is able to be tabulated, and put out.

At least this way media speculation, and managers pumping up their own tires would be also taken out of the equation.
I think it's easy to solve the salary cap problem. Simply allow bidding to obtain players. So if player a wants to play in Brisbane for 100k but we offer him 200k then he is on the books at Brisbane for 200 if he wants to stay at Brisbane. You basically just have a draft system where the highest bidder wins.

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Unread post by WestsBenTigers » Sat 14 Oct, 2017 11:00 am

Earl wrote:
Sat 14 Oct, 2017 10:28 am
underdog wrote:
Fri 13 Oct, 2017 11:03 am
The problem with a points system is that it's completely subjective.

SALARIES are not subjective. They are what someone was willing to be paid at a given moment.

Do what the NFL does - Make the Salaries of the players public - sure people on the forum might argue that it's an invasion of privacy, however If you build the culture from the ground up - (e.g - the players know from their first day in a top 30 squad that their salaries are public domain, and that's what they sign up for) then it isn't an issue.

At least this way club spending can be scrutinised.

Sure, 3rd parties can be still rorted, however this would be the start to even up the playing field.

Then look at down the track NRL releasing 3rd party deal details as well - If every 3rd party deal MUST be cleared by the NRL, then surely that information is able to be tabulated, and put out.

At least this way media speculation, and managers pumping up their own tires would be also taken out of the equation.
I think it's easy to solve the salary cap problem. Simply allow bidding to obtain players. So if player a wants to play in Brisbane for 100k but we offer him 200k then he is on the books at Brisbane for 200 if he wants to stay at Brisbane. You basically just have a draft system where the highest bidder wins.
That would be a good idea except it would be harder to retain players, especially juniors.

Would be better than what we have at the moment

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Unread post by gallagher » Sat 14 Oct, 2017 12:49 pm

Offer $1m to any whistleblower.

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Unread post by Tiger Watto » Sun 15 Oct, 2017 6:19 am

gallagher wrote:
Sat 14 Oct, 2017 12:49 pm
Offer $1m to any whistleblower.
Interesting way to look at it. No doubt will see a few scorned woman & unhappy ex employees pick up the phone.

Making players salaries public knowledge has some merit and could reduce some of the current rorting. It definitely won't stop dodgy deals, but would see clubs putting more through their cap space.

(not a fan of disclosing peoples salaries though)
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Unread post by supercoach » Sun 15 Oct, 2017 7:28 am

If a player is contacted directly by a company to do TV commercial or become a company ambassador for a product that is not connected with the club or NRL, is that classes a TPA ??

I would have thought any restrictions on the above would be classed as a restraint of trade. Also it would be so easy to rort

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Unread post by tigerbenji » Sun 15 Oct, 2017 7:57 am

I think a points system is the way to go, not working out points for each player but so many if you play First grade, so many if you play SOO & so many if you play for your Country. You get a discount for your Juniors, Once your points are reached thats it.

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