Basket Cases

NRL and other Australian Rugby League Discussion
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clifferdSH
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Re: Basket Cases

Post by clifferdSH » Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:51 pm

patwalker wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:08 pm
clifferdSH wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:45 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:39 pm
clifferdSH wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 11:21 am


Joey: We need to make it a true national competition, while lowering the number of teams to 12

...

10 seconds later

Joey: We need a 2nd team in New Zealand and a 2nd team in Brisbane

Not the brightest spark is he
Got news for you, he’s right about needing another team in Brisbane !
There are just as many if not more people who detest the Broncos up here, and they would have no problem with getting them to a game every second week,
It’s crazy when there is no game here , when the Broncos are away,
One of the best grounds in the NRLjust sits idle ; while others in Sydney look like a ghost town ,most of the town

Yeah I agree mate, just the way he expresses it he comes off as a dumbo lol

Brisbane 2 would probably be less risky than exploring a new market (Perth) considering they are RL mad
I've met Andrew Johns many times and I used to regularly drink with Matty around Cessnock, I can assure you, Andrew IS as dumb as he comes across. And as arrogant as you'd expect. He is not liked at all around the area despite what the Knights media may try to have you believe.
Haha I'd believe it mate.i get that vibe just from watching him on TV


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Post by jirskyr » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 12:04 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:46 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 9:11 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:54 pm
Jirskyr,
Do you really think that population is the main concern of the Nrl.
Tv runs the game these days and no matter what the NRL says it still does .and time slots are King,
If they’d care a bout fans or population, they’d run more games like lasts night in a suburban grounds
Corporate opportunities are probably second on the list, as they want more National sponsors, more money coming in

9 clubs in Sydney means fighting with each other for support,
Everyone’s got to chase the pie for their seemingly dimishing share,

Better to increase the share among those who can survive in Sydney,
I don’t like it, but I think it’s inevitable
There’s way too many here
I put it to you that populations watch TV. Last time I noticed, they don't pull out the Rockhampton Tv viewertship when measurimg the success of Ninja Warrior or Master Chef.

Ideally yes, less teams in Sydney. But who are you going to cut? Last time they cut Sydney teams around Super League it caused great wounds that still haven't healed fully - e.g. Bears supporters. Illawarra absorbed... some people still hold grudges about Balmain and Magpies despite both teams existing in governance.

You have to take games where the population is, so they take on the new team and either go physically or watch on TV. Relocation to Perth is ideal- but again who puts their hands up?
The people who go to the Cowboys games don’t all come from Townsville.’ They come in from all over FNQ.
And I didn’t mention Rocky but the same would apply
As I said that people at games aren’t the NRLs biggest goal.

As for viewership , people don’t have to live within half an hour of the ground to watch it , and games at Townsville are also watched throughout Qld.
I don’t think that there’s much doubt that at least one team from Sydney is on borrowed time.
They won’t drop an outside team (except maybe GOLd Coast)
And I don’t think that will happen.
Someone will eventually have to go.
Johns suggested Rocky.

But I think you miss my point about population - I'm not really talking about attendance at games.

Suppose you introduce a new team in NSW or QLD, is that going to boost TV viewership? Footy is already strong viewership here.

John suggested Rocky or Wellington, but who is going to support those teams? Mostly the locals and local catchment. I can't see Broncos or Warriors fans switching over to a non-local side.

Compare that to Perth - no rugby competition, some local league support, 2M people with just 2 other football sides in Eagles and Glory (Fremantle not counted).

I dont argue there are too many Sydney teams but Sydney is a big big place. And if you cut a Sydney team you risk alienating those fans - real actual current supporters, not hypothetical future supporters.

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Post by happy tiger » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 12:49 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Sat 04 Aug, 2018 12:04 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:46 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 9:11 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:54 pm
Jirskyr,
Do you really think that population is the main concern of the Nrl.
Tv runs the game these days and no matter what the NRL says it still does .and time slots are King,
If they’d care a bout fans or population, they’d run more games like lasts night in a suburban grounds
Corporate opportunities are probably second on the list, as they want more National sponsors, more money coming in

9 clubs in Sydney means fighting with each other for support,
Everyone’s got to chase the pie for their seemingly dimishing share,

Better to increase the share among those who can survive in Sydney,
I don’t like it, but I think it’s inevitable
There’s way too many here
I put it to you that populations watch TV. Last time I noticed, they don't pull out the Rockhampton Tv viewertship when measurimg the success of Ninja Warrior or Master Chef.

Ideally yes, less teams in Sydney. But who are you going to cut? Last time they cut Sydney teams around Super League it caused great wounds that still haven't healed fully - e.g. Bears supporters. Illawarra absorbed... some people still hold grudges about Balmain and Magpies despite both teams existing in governance.

You have to take games where the population is, so they take on the new team and either go physically or watch on TV. Relocation to Perth is ideal- but again who puts their hands up?
The people who go to the Cowboys games don’t all come from Townsville.’ They come in from all over FNQ.
And I didn’t mention Rocky but the same would apply
As I said that people at games aren’t the NRLs biggest goal.

As for viewership , people don’t have to live within half an hour of the ground to watch it , and games at Townsville are also watched throughout Qld.
I don’t think that there’s much doubt that at least one team from Sydney is on borrowed time.
They won’t drop an outside team (except maybe GOLd Coast)
And I don’t think that will happen.
Someone will eventually have to go.
Johns suggested Rocky.

But I think you miss my point about population - I'm not really talking about attendance at games.

Suppose you introduce a new team in NSW or QLD, is that going to boost TV viewership? Footy is already strong viewership here.

John suggested Rocky or Wellington, but who is going to support those teams? Mostly the locals and local catchment. I can't see Broncos or Warriors fans switching over to a non-local side.

Compare that to Perth - no rugby competition, some local league support, 2M people with just 2 other football sides in Eagles and Glory (Fremantle not counted).

I dont argue there are too many Sydney teams but Sydney is a big big place. And if you cut a Sydney team you risk alienating those fans - real actual current supporters, not hypothetical future supporters.
Being from the CQ (Rockhampton ) area , you got no ground to start with

You will need to build a stadium

They have a football school namely St Brendans Yeppoon which recruits good footy players from around CQ

Population will be the biggest issue , if you included Emerald which id about 3.1/2 hours away you might have 250 000 , Mackay would see themselves at Cowboys fans ,Bundaberg is too possibly too far south

CQ is in a recession at the moment , mining and the drought are the major reason

My problem is the economy is just too often either boom or bust for an NRL side

Central coast , 2nd NZ side and PNG would be ahead

I still think Darwin could be a gold mine , never had a National sports franchise ......

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Post by Cultured Bogan » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 1:02 pm

It won't be Easts as much as I would love to see them killed off, Uncle Nick wields too much power in the NRL.

Should be Manly or Sharks. Shire could be reabsorbed by the Saints again and Manly are isolated.
And she's turning cold, at fifteen years old,
Taken too much slow, minds gone out to sea on the P&O,
Don't know what to do, rotten shade of blue,
Another case of "stupid is as stupid does..."

Cuando llegue el día, y estoy parado a las puertas del cielo, será Dios pidiendo mi perdón...

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Post by Tarl » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 1:57 pm

Perth Sharks would fit well. Dragons could easily absorb the Shire. But where's the Darwin team? ;)

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Post by Tarl » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 1:58 pm

Better map

Image

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Post by Fade To Black » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 3:56 pm

clifferdSH wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 3:22 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 1:36 pm
Problem is Joey suggests to cull Sydney teams from 9 to 4, and add another QLD team in Brisbane or Rocky.

Problem is the popoulation maths doesn't add up.

Sydney' population in 2017 according to ABS was 4.74M. That's 527K people per team. Population of Newcastle and Maitland combined is 481K, so that's less people per team than Sydney currently accommodates.

Population of Rocky is 79K, so just 15% of the theoretical population distribution for each Sydney team.

At a state level, NSW has 7.79M and carries 10 teams (excluding Raiders) = 779K per side. QLD has 5M flat and just 3 teams, so 1.7M theoretical people per side.

So there is a fair argument that expansion in QLD is a good idea, however I can't see it being anywhere apart from Brisbane, because the other towns are too small. Two teams in Brisbane, pop of 2.3M, would supply 1.15M per side, around double that of the current Sydney sides.

But then you ask the question, do we really need to grow the game in NSW and QLD? Do we need to sure up support in our heartlands, or expand the game to new markets?

If you are a "new market" person then Perth and Adelaide are no-brainers - you just have to be willing to spend 30 years creating a niche market before you start to entrench yourself into parts of the local culture, like AFL in Sydney.

Wellington has only 200K people, so whilst it's a potential rugby league location, it would be one of the smallest cities supporting an NRL team - only 20K bigger than Townsville. Obv it has advantages being the capital, but you must question why not a second Auckland team, when they have a population of 1.57M and one single side. Perhaps even a Hamilton team - 157K people but only 2h down the road from the South Auckland League heartland.

You might want to talk nation-wide or Pacific-region viewing public, but these teams need someone to support first. You are hardly going to get much die-hard support from people expected to follow new sides that are 3h drive from their current location.

Then there's a reason why we don't just pull in Tongan and PNG teams into the comp - lack of population in the Pacific (107K in Tonga, 900K in Fiji, 8M in PNG) but more specifically lack of spending money. You are again looking at splashing out in big markets where there is spending money to follow football. That's almost all Australia if you are ticking boxes.

Where did AFL expand into, once they moved beyond the VFL? Perth, Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane. Second teams eventually in Fremantle and Adelaide where there was already a very strong AFL following since the game's inception. Now Gold Coast and a second Sydney team, but those are still very large markets.
I actually think PNG in the nrl would work. Their world cup was a huge success with huge crowds. Could imagine theyd get sell outs every week, get an upgraded stadium, sell heaps of merch and they could easily be a profitable club

Do agree we should work in our own back yard first. I'd go with Perth, nine/foxsports would salivate at the mouth over a 7pm Sunday night (4pm kick off Perth) aswell as huge sponsorship deals. Basically a gold mine waiting to be dug
PNG would be a good choice to introduce, you are right Clifferd. Logistically though a PNG team mightn't have the adequate facilities to host NRL games just yet. The Titans have basically been hopeless since their inception: maybe a PNG team made up of PNG players and the best handful of Titans players playing out of the GC would be the way to go. If it was a success then the NRL would be able to put some funds into setting up the facilities/stadium required for home games to be played in PNG.
A team on the Central Coast and one in Perth as well would be great for our competition. Bring back the Bears on the CC.

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Post by Tiger Steve » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 5:20 pm

A PNG team would have to be run by aussies. There is so much corruption and incompetence at every level of management in all areas - private and public, when PNG nationals are in charge. Seriously, I love PNG and it’s people and lived there for a number of years but it simply would not work. Too much money = too much temptation.
Aussie run - then maybe
“Peanuts! Get ya peanuts - in the shell or sugar coated!” Leichhardt memories.

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 6:00 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Sat 04 Aug, 2018 12:49 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Sat 04 Aug, 2018 12:04 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:46 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 9:11 pm

I put it to you that populations watch TV. Last time I noticed, they don't pull out the Rockhampton Tv viewertship when measurimg the success of Ninja Warrior or Master Chef.

Ideally yes, less teams in Sydney. But who are you going to cut? Last time they cut Sydney teams around Super League it caused great wounds that still haven't healed fully - e.g. Bears supporters. Illawarra absorbed... some people still hold grudges about Balmain and Magpies despite both teams existing in governance.

You have to take games where the population is, so they take on the new team and either go physically or watch on TV. Relocation to Perth is ideal- but again who puts their hands up?
The people who go to the Cowboys games don’t all come from Townsville.’ They come in from all over FNQ.
And I didn’t mention Rocky but the same would apply
As I said that people at games aren’t the NRLs biggest goal.

As for viewership , people don’t have to live within half an hour of the ground to watch it , and games at Townsville are also watched throughout Qld.
I don’t think that there’s much doubt that at least one team from Sydney is on borrowed time.
They won’t drop an outside team (except maybe GOLd Coast)
And I don’t think that will happen.
Someone will eventually have to go.
Johns suggested Rocky.

But I think you miss my point about population - I'm not really talking about attendance at games.

Suppose you introduce a new team in NSW or QLD, is that going to boost TV viewership? Footy is already strong viewership here.

John suggested Rocky or Wellington, but who is going to support those teams? Mostly the locals and local catchment. I can't see Broncos or Warriors fans switching over to a non-local side.

Compare that to Perth - no rugby competition, some local league support, 2M people with just 2 other football sides in Eagles and Glory (Fremantle not counted).

I dont argue there are too many Sydney teams but Sydney is a big big place. And if you cut a Sydney team you risk alienating those fans - real actual current supporters, not hypothetical future supporters.
Being from the CQ (Rockhampton ) area , you got no ground to start with

You will need to build a stadium

They have a football school namely St Brendans Yeppoon which recruits good footy players from around CQ

Population will be the biggest issue , if you included Emerald which id about 3.1/2 hours away you might have 250 000 , Mackay would see themselves at Cowboys fans ,Bundaberg is too possibly too far south

CQ is in a recession at the moment , mining and the drought are the major reason

My problem is the economy is just too often either boom or bust for an NRL side

Central coast , 2nd NZ side and PNG would be ahead

I still think Darwin could be a gold mine , never had a National sports franchise ......
If they are serious about what’s good for the game, then a second team in Brissie is a must, mainly because of the numbers that would support any team that was not The Broncos.
And it should be the first new team in the Competition,

That would be inline with your Population theory.and rightly so.

Qlders are so oneyed about where they live , and at the moment with no team between Brisbane and Townsville, they don’t have anyone to support except what’s already there,
I don’t know where it will eventually be, but my opinion is that there will be another team in Regional Qld when the times right,
CQ and Ipswich have been working towards that goal for quite a while now.
I think that Perth will be next after the second Qld team

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 6:01 pm

happy tiger wrote:
Sat 04 Aug, 2018 12:49 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Sat 04 Aug, 2018 12:04 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:46 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 9:11 pm

I put it to you that populations watch TV. Last time I noticed, they don't pull out the Rockhampton Tv viewertship when measurimg the success of Ninja Warrior or Master Chef.

Ideally yes, less teams in Sydney. But who are you going to cut? Last time they cut Sydney teams around Super League it caused great wounds that still haven't healed fully - e.g. Bears supporters. Illawarra absorbed... some people still hold grudges about Balmain and Magpies despite both teams existing in governance.

You have to take games where the population is, so they take on the new team and either go physically or watch on TV. Relocation to Perth is ideal- but again who puts their hands up?
The people who go to the Cowboys games don’t all come from Townsville.’ They come in from all over FNQ.
And I didn’t mention Rocky but the same would apply
As I said that people at games aren’t the NRLs biggest goal.

As for viewership , people don’t have to live within half an hour of the ground to watch it , and games at Townsville are also watched throughout Qld.
I don’t think that there’s much doubt that at least one team from Sydney is on borrowed time.
They won’t drop an outside team (except maybe GOLd Coast)
And I don’t think that will happen.
Someone will eventually have to go.
Johns suggested Rocky.

But I think you miss my point about population - I'm not really talking about attendance at games.

Suppose you introduce a new team in NSW or QLD, is that going to boost TV viewership? Footy is already strong viewership here.

John suggested Rocky or Wellington, but who is going to support those teams? Mostly the locals and local catchment. I can't see Broncos or Warriors fans switching over to a non-local side.

Compare that to Perth - no rugby competition, some local league support, 2M people with just 2 other football sides in Eagles and Glory (Fremantle not counted).

I dont argue there are too many Sydney teams but Sydney is a big big place. And if you cut a Sydney team you risk alienating those fans - real actual current supporters, not hypothetical future supporters.
Being from the CQ (Rockhampton ) area , you got no ground to start with

You will need to build a stadium

They have a football school namely St Brendans Yeppoon which recruits good footy players from around CQ

Population will be the biggest issue , if you included Emerald which id about 3.1/2 hours away you might have 250 000 , Mackay would see themselves at Cowboys fans ,Bundaberg is too possibly too far south

CQ is in a recession at the moment , mining and the drought are the major reason

My problem is the economy is just too often either boom or bust for an NRL side

Central coast , 2nd NZ side and PNG would be ahead

I still think Darwin could be a gold mine , never had a National sports franchise ......
[/quote
Last edited by goldcoast tiger on Sat 04 Aug, 2018 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tiger Steve » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 6:03 pm

Put a 2nd team in Bondi. Let Nick’s money manage 2 salary caps!
“Peanuts! Get ya peanuts - in the shell or sugar coated!” Leichhardt memories.

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Post by Snake » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 6:24 pm

Well bottom line for the Tigers is not 6 home grounds but one home .. the sooner the better as they will always be seen as the transients of the NRL and easy pickings to be moved on . Well to
live in the past but the future could very well
Be a different picture VOTE ONE WSS next season !

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Post by Fade To Black » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 6:53 pm

Tiger Steve wrote:
Sat 04 Aug, 2018 5:20 pm
A PNG team would have to be run by aussies. There is so much corruption and incompetence at every level of management in all areas - private and public, when PNG nationals are in charge. Seriously, I love PNG and it’s people and lived there for a number of years but it simply would not work. Too much money = too much temptation.
Aussie run - then maybe
Corruption and incompetence sums up NRL HQ in 2 words! Maybe Toddy G is of Papuan descent?

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Post by Tiger Steve » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 6:56 pm

Fade To Black wrote:
Sat 04 Aug, 2018 6:53 pm
Tiger Steve wrote:
Sat 04 Aug, 2018 5:20 pm
A PNG team would have to be run by aussies. There is so much corruption and incompetence at every level of management in all areas - private and public, when PNG nationals are in charge. Seriously, I love PNG and it’s people and lived there for a number of years but it simply would not work. Too much money = too much temptation.
Aussie run - then maybe
Corruption and incompetence sums up NRL HQ in 2 words! Maybe Toddy G is of Papuan descent?
That’s an insult to PNG! NRL is waaaaaay worse😉
“Peanuts! Get ya peanuts - in the shell or sugar coated!” Leichhardt memories.

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Post by happy tiger » Sat 04 Aug, 2018 11:45 pm

goldcoast tiger wrote:
Sat 04 Aug, 2018 6:00 pm
happy tiger wrote:
Sat 04 Aug, 2018 12:49 pm
jirskyr wrote:
Sat 04 Aug, 2018 12:04 pm
goldcoast tiger wrote:
Fri 03 Aug, 2018 10:46 pm


The people who go to the Cowboys games don’t all come from Townsville.’ They come in from all over FNQ.
And I didn’t mention Rocky but the same would apply
As I said that people at games aren’t the NRLs biggest goal.

As for viewership , people don’t have to live within half an hour of the ground to watch it , and games at Townsville are also watched throughout Qld.
I don’t think that there’s much doubt that at least one team from Sydney is on borrowed time.
They won’t drop an outside team (except maybe GOLd Coast)
And I don’t think that will happen.
Someone will eventually have to go.
Johns suggested Rocky.

But I think you miss my point about population - I'm not really talking about attendance at games.

Suppose you introduce a new team in NSW or QLD, is that going to boost TV viewership? Footy is already strong viewership here.

John suggested Rocky or Wellington, but who is going to support those teams? Mostly the locals and local catchment. I can't see Broncos or Warriors fans switching over to a non-local side.

Compare that to Perth - no rugby competition, some local league support, 2M people with just 2 other football sides in Eagles and Glory (Fremantle not counted).

I dont argue there are too many Sydney teams but Sydney is a big big place. And if you cut a Sydney team you risk alienating those fans - real actual current supporters, not hypothetical future supporters.
Being from the CQ (Rockhampton ) area , you got no ground to start with

You will need to build a stadium

They have a football school namely St Brendans Yeppoon which recruits good footy players from around CQ

Population will be the biggest issue , if you included Emerald which id about 3.1/2 hours away you might have 250 000 , Mackay would see themselves at Cowboys fans ,Bundaberg is too possibly too far south

CQ is in a recession at the moment , mining and the drought are the major reason

My problem is the economy is just too often either boom or bust for an NRL side

Central coast , 2nd NZ side and PNG would be ahead

I still think Darwin could be a gold mine , never had a National sports franchise ......
If they are serious about what’s good for the game, then a second team in Brissie is a must, mainly because of the numbers that would support any team that was not The Broncos.
And it should be the first new team in the Competition,

That would be inline with your Population theory.and rightly so.

Qlders are so oneyed about where they live , and at the moment with no team between Brisbane and Townsville, they don’t have anyone to support except what’s already there,
I don’t know where it will eventually be, but my opinion is that there will be another team in Regional Qld when the times right,
CQ and Ipswich have been working towards that goal for quite a while now.
I think that Perth will be next after the second Qld team
Ipswich is a given GCT Option 1

I would think Central Coast would be 2nd

2nd NZ side 3rd option

PNG Option 4

Darwin Option 5

CQ Option 6

We have a sign saying your in Cowboy country and most supporters would be either Brisbane /Cows supporters

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Post by Tweed Tiger » Sun 05 Aug, 2018 12:10 am

After living in Brisbane for 4 years I think a 2nd club would do well but Broncos wouldn't be happy

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Post by WT2K » Mon 06 Aug, 2018 7:35 pm

3 coaches in 8 years.. Seems like Penrith are a basket case..
No more plodders!
:sign:

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Post by goldcoast tiger » Mon 06 Aug, 2018 11:30 pm

WT2K wrote:
Mon 06 Aug, 2018 7:35 pm
3 coaches in 8 years.. Seems like Penrith are a basket case..
Wish we were abasket case then!
Right in the mix for first grade winners, andright up there in every comp that their are entered in so far this year,
Yep pretty bad!

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